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  #3681  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2016, 5:18 AM
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Originally Posted by JDRCRASH View Post
A Metrolink line from Santa Barbara to Oceanside would be dope. Basically a mini Surfliner, only way faster.
Metrolink is funded by Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, San Bernardino, and Ventura counties, and Santa Barbara lies in Santa Barbara County. It has it's own regional council of governments (regional planning) completely separate from the rest of central and southern California.
Therefore, seeing Metrolink trains running all the way to Santa Barbara is very unlikely.
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  #3682  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2016, 6:27 AM
Car(e)-Free LA Car(e)-Free LA is offline
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Originally Posted by electricron View Post
Metrolink is funded by Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, San Bernardino, and Ventura counties, and Santa Barbara lies in Santa Barbara County. It has it's own regional council of governments (regional planning) completely separate from the rest of central and southern California.
Therefore, seeing Metrolink trains running all the way to Santa Barbara is very unlikely.
Theres nothing preventing Santa Barbara County (or San Luis Obisbo or San Diego or Imperial or...county for that matter) from joining with the rest of Southern California's regional governments. Personally, I find it idiotic that Coaster and Metrolink terminate in Oceanside instead of being the same line.
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  #3683  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2016, 6:58 AM
SFBruin SFBruin is offline
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Originally Posted by JDRCRASH View Post
Anyway, the eastern half of the ROW is basically gone. Once it separates from the freeway it runs along Ramona Blvd; this whole section in El Monte and Baldwin Park has long been built on with businesses and townhomes. By the time Ramona turns into Badillo in West Covina, the ROW practically disappears.
That's too bad. Thanks for the response!
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  #3684  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2016, 8:34 AM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is offline
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Originally Posted by SFBruin View Post
That's too bad. Thanks for the response!
Well, I mean there's nothing physically preventing rail from ever being built on Badillo. Or San Bernardino st or Arrow Hwy, for that matter. It would just likely have to be grade-separated, and unless the cities of Covina and West Covina really decide to upzone everything (7-story building) along major streets, that's probably not gonna happen. There's not a whole lot of density this far out compared to DTLA and the adjacent areas; most of the residential neighborhoods out here consist of R-1 SFH tracts.
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  #3685  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2016, 9:02 AM
SoCalKid SoCalKid is offline
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Originally Posted by Car(e)-Free LA View Post
That would still be an issue. What DMUs change, is they make it realistic to run trains every 10-15 minutes, making Metrolink more of a faster, longer distance Metro system, rather than a commuter rail system.
Thanks for the response. I guess my question is, won't the current capacity issues presented by single tracks prevent 10-15 minute headways impossible?
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  #3686  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2016, 9:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Car(e)-Free LA View Post
Theres nothing preventing Santa Barbara County (or San Luis Obisbo or San Diego or Imperial or...county for that matter) from joining with the rest of Southern California's regional governments. Personally, I find it idiotic that Coaster and Metrolink terminate in Oceanside instead of being the same line.
True, except the desires of the local citizens who wish to remain separate.
There are 18 regional council of governments (MPOs) in California.
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/tpp/offices...-RTPA_1-10.pdf
I suppose if they took your point of view, there would just be two MPOs, northern and southern California.
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  #3687  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2016, 2:38 PM
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Originally Posted by electricron View Post
True, except the desires of the local citizens who wish to remain separate.
There are 18 regional council of governments (MPOs) in California.
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/tpp/offices...-RTPA_1-10.pdf
I suppose if they took your point of view, there would just be two MPOs, northern and southern California.
MPOs have important functions aside from transportation planning, and despite that SCRRA is composed of the SCAG member counties (minus Imperial), it is actually a joint powers authority of the transportation commissions of the respective counties. It's not an MPO. And extension of Metrolink into San Diego is something that has been discussed for a long time, but has been shot down by Amtrak IIRC, because it would eat into business for the surfliner
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Last edited by NSMP; Dec 4, 2016 at 3:29 PM. Reason: Clarified which metrolink extension
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  #3688  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2016, 2:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SoCalKid View Post
Thanks for the response. I guess my question is, won't the current capacity issues presented by single tracks prevent 10-15 minute headways impossible?
Yes, double tracking would be necessary.
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  #3689  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2016, 6:09 PM
Car(e)-Free LA Car(e)-Free LA is offline
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Originally Posted by electricron View Post
I suppose if they took your point of view, there would just be two MPOs, northern and southern California.
Yeah. That would absolutely be my view. I find the fragmentation of municipalities and transit networks across California to be absolutely idiotic.
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  #3690  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2016, 8:59 PM
CastleScott CastleScott is offline
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Just wanted to add that you guys in LA are really going to have a nice high quality large system when all is said and done that many cities across the US and even Canada will envy..
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  #3691  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2016, 7:29 PM
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Originally Posted by NSMP View Post
MPOs have important functions aside from transportation planning, and despite that SCRRA is composed of the SCAG member counties (minus Imperial), it is actually a joint powers authority of the transportation commissions of the respective counties. It's not an MPO. And extension of Metrolink into San Diego is something that has been discussed for a long time, but has been shot down by Amtrak IIRC, because it would eat into business for the surfliner
I also heard talk of this...Coaster going into LA/OC and Metrolink going farther into SD. It would be much better and cheaper to have a single seat on Coaster/Metrolink than using Amtrak, which is much more expensive.

To that end, if LA Metro transit (Metro, Light Rail, Metrolink) and SD Metro Transit (SD MTS Light Rail, Coaster, Sprinter) were all part of the same network (can transfer with a ticket), this would help mobility greatly.

Last edited by spoonman; Dec 5, 2016 at 8:12 PM.
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  #3692  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2016, 9:41 PM
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  #3693  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2016, 9:46 PM
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I also heard talk of this...Coaster going into LA/OC and Metrolink going farther into SD. It would be much better and cheaper to have a single seat on Coaster/Metrolink than using Amtrak, which is much more expensive.

To that end, if LA Metro transit (Metro, Light Rail, Metrolink) and SD Metro Transit (SD MTS Light Rail, Coaster, Sprinter) were all part of the same network (can transfer with a ticket), this would help mobility greatly.
Coaster and Metrolink would have to add more zones, which could potentially make riding the commuter trains more expensive than riding thenSurfliner.

Let's compare the fares between downtown LA and SD:

Surfliner weekday $37.00, elapse time -2.75 hours
Metrolink $16.75 + Coaster $5.50 = $22.25, elapse time 3.20 hours (assuming instaneous transfer between trains at Oceanside)
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  #3694  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2016, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by electricron View Post
Coaster and Metrolink would have to add more zones, which could potentially make riding the commuter trains more expensive than riding thenSurfliner.

Let's compare the fares between downtown LA and SD:

Surfliner weekday $37.00, elapse time -2.75 hours
Metrolink $16.75 + Coaster $5.50 = $22.25, elapse time 3.20 hours (assuming instaneous transfer between trains at Oceanside)
In all sincerity, could you try explaining that again?

You just posted fares for Coaster and Metrolink, which are cheaper than Amtrak. This seems to prove my point.

Last edited by spoonman; Dec 5, 2016 at 10:18 PM.
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  #3695  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2016, 10:42 PM
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Anything to speed up the line would be a nice improvement. I rode the blue line from downtown LA to downtown Long Beach several years ago and it took such a long time. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like they'll be improving the experience in downtown Long Beach anytime soon. The train crawls through that area! Too bad it can't descend into a subway there.
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  #3696  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2016, 11:01 PM
ChargerCarl ChargerCarl is offline
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Biggest problem with the blue line is the areas around it are way underzoned.
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  #3697  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2016, 11:30 PM
Ragnar Ragnar is offline
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After working at home for the last few years, I started a job in Culver City. I've been driving alone to work for the past couple of months, using Waze as a co-pilot, but experiencing one-way commute times of anywhere from 1 hour to 1 hour 30 minutes, averaging about 1 hour 10 minutes each way to/from Glendale. (18-20 miles, depending on where Waze takes me).

So, being a public transit fan, last week I bit the bullet and decided to try Metrolink/Metro, even though it would take a car trip to the train station, 3 trains, and a 15 minute walk at the end. Even if it took longer time and cost more money than driving, my thought was that at least I wouldn't be stressed by driving, and maybe I could even work on the train.

My route was:
Home --> (drive) --> Glendale Station --> (Metrolink) --> Union Station --> (Red/Purple Line) --> 7th St Metro --> (Expo Line) --> Culver City Station --> (15 minute walk) --> Work

Total Cost: Metro Round Trip: $3.50 Metrolink Round Trip: $5.00; Total $8.50

Verdict:
The morning commute was not bad, Metrolink was on time, the transfer to Red/Purple was easy and quick, as was the transfer to Expo. Expo actually was not delayed too much on the street-running section, and I had an actual seat on the train, despite the train being crowded. I left my house at 7:20, and walked into work at 8:55, for an elapsed time of 1 hour 35 minutes. I think this is about as fast as the trip would be, considering I didn't have to wait more than about 4 minutes for any train. It was cool to see all the commuters walking through Union Station going to their various destinations. It had that "big city bustle" you don't always get here in LA except for the freeways.

The evening commute, however, was not so good, and it was mostly due to the Expo Line. First, it was packed. Not just "crowded", but almost "LA needs to hire those guys in Tokyo who push people into subways" packed. On the one hand, it's a good thing because it means it's popular. On the other hand, so much for "relaxing" on your way home as you squeeze in and stand uncomfortably close to dozens of strangers. By the time we got to Vermont, it was a little less crowded, but I wasn't able to get a seat until we got to USC. That, however, was not as big of a deal as how freaking SLOW it went. We slowly creaked along, stopping at various points for seemingly no reason whatsoever. Until finally just before we got to Pico we just stopped. And waited. And waited. I looked at my watch and it took almost an HOUR to get from Culver City to 7th Street. In the meantime, the Metrolink was getting ready to depart, and if I missed it, I was going to be stuck at Union Station for 50 more minutes until the next train. We finally got to 7th St Metro, I just missed the subway (of course). Finally caught that, ran through Union Station, and made it to my train with 2 minutes to spare. (Side note: Was Metrolink taken over by the Swiss or something? Those guys are ON TIME.) I left work at 5:20pm, walked through my door at 7:10pm. Almost 2 hours.

I really wanted to like going by transit. Unfortunately for me, it's just not a viable solution unless a freeway gets closed down by some catastrophe. There is no way the Expo Line is running 40-whatever minutes from Santa Monica to Downtown in the evening, if my experience is any indication. The Downtown Connector will help when it's done in a few years, but the street running section of Expo is a fatal flaw unless they do something to prioritize the trains.

At the end of the day, for me driving is cheaper, faster, and less stressful, which is disappointing because I really wanted to turn into a regular public transit user. Maybe I'll give it another try in the new year and see if my experience was just an anomaly.
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  #3698  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2016, 12:00 AM
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In all sincerity, could you try explaining that again?

You just posted fares for Coaster and Metrolink, which are cheaper than Amtrak. This seems to prove my point.
Yes they were cheaper, but they also took a minimum of one hour longer. How long would one have to wait on the platforms in Oceanside to switch trains today, as the services are today? How much is your time worth, $10, $15, $20, or more an hour? The fare difference was $15 for a one way trip.
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  #3699  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2016, 1:13 AM
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Ragnar - thanks for typing that whole thing up. I used to commute from DTLA to Culver every day via Expo. Your experience is not an anomaly. It matches my experience perfectly except of course now expo is much more crowded with phase two having opened.

The downtown segment is excruciating. Transfers seem as though they are intentionally timed so that you miss the subway. Very frustrating.
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  #3700  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2016, 1:18 AM
plutonicpanda plutonicpanda is offline
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Originally Posted by ChargerCarl View Post
You could argue that the highway projects on metro's wishlist (710 extension, 405 carpool lane through supulveda pass, etc) are wasteful on a $ per capacity added relative to rail projects they could support.
You could also argue the other way as well.
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