CHICAGO | General Developments

[west-town-brad]

Western Ave is a great source of market rate inexpensive housing that runs through many somewhat expensive housing sub markets. In that sense it will always have an attraction. You can see this pattern in that the portions of Western Ave that run through currently in-demand and expensive neighborhoods is already developed/developing with high density housing.

[mark0]

Originally Posted by Klippenstein

This is what I was told on this forum when I was surprised that 900 W Randolph had a concrete frame. In Chicago, residential high rises are usually concrete and generally only offices use steel frame. I think it usually comes out cheaper to use concrete for residential because they don’t have the same mechanical demands and office buildings often have higher floors, the tenant do the buildout themselves and soundproofing isn’t as important. That’s just my superficial understanding. Somebody also mentioned that steel frame residential is more common in NYC. I was just watching a YouTube video that mentioned that in NYC the steel frame of the buildings go up first because of the steel workers union. I wondered if the power of that union also influenced the material decisions for buildings. Or perhaps NYC simply builds more high end housing which is more likely to use steel frame construction? Just random thoughts. Maybe somebody understand these phenomena on a deeper level and would be willing to share?

NYC logistics make getting concrete and the huge labor force that goes with it difficult. Concrete trucks sitting in traffic trying to cross a bridge may have to turn back if they go over the delivery time window. Chicago has wider streets, cement mixing plants right outside the downtown and less gridlock. Steel is also faster and in NYC time = more expensive.

[Steely Dan]

living a block west of western in lincoln square, i like a lot of what i'm seeing in this corridor study.

but western has been a giant 24 mile long auto sewer straight through the entire city, from howard all the way down to 119th, for most of its life, so the turd can only be polished so much.

however, i do like how the report specifically called out some egregiously bad existing developments that are ripe for redevelopment in my immediate neighborhood, like the auto-zone and 7-11 with parking lots directly on western, and the old MB/fifth-third bank property on the NW corner of western/lawrence. if his study forces the redevelopment of that large bank property into something functionally urban that actually "holds" that prominent corner with active uses (instead of yet another crap-tacular chicago stripmall development with a fucking parking lot at the corner of two main streets), then that alone will be a huge win for lincoln square.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

living a block west of western in lincoln square, i like a lot of what i'm seeing in this corridor study.

but western has been a giant 24 mile long auto sewer straight through the entire city, from howard all the way down to 119th, for most of its life, so the turd can only be polished so much.

however, i do like how the report specifically called out some egregiously bad existing developments that are ripe for redevelopment in my immediate neighborhood, like the auto-zone and 7-11 with parking lots directly on western, and the old MB/fifth-third bank property on the NW corner of western/lawrence. if his study forces the redevelopment of that large bank property into something functionally urban that actually "holds" that prominent corner with active uses (instead of yet another crap-tacular chicago stripmall development with a fucking parking lot at the corner of two main streets), then that alone will be a huge win for lincoln square.

I really wish this would go further south, but you gotta start somewhere I guess. Being down by Fullerton, there's so much opportunity further south. Man.... if there was a BRT along Western that spanned the city - You wouldn't even need a L connector at that point.

[Rizzo]

Looking at those cross sections. Less garage or driveway entrances to Western means less turn lanes, and more median planters and trees. The trees really help, which is why Ashland looks much more attractive despite being a major thoroughfare

[thegoatman]

Why doesn't the city pursue light rail/BRT on Western, Ashland, and these other wide roads. Saw this video of this recently completed BRT in SF and both transit riders and drivers were happy in the end

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by thegoatman

Why doesn't the city pursue light rail/BRT on Western, Ashland, and these other wide roads.

the city tried to do BRT on ashland years ago.

and the NIMBidiots of our ass-backwards town killed it.


CHICAGO: Great City | Stupid People

[moorhosj1]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

the city tried to do BRT on ashland years ago.

and the NIMBidiots of our ass-backwards town killed it.


CHICAGO: Great City | Stupid People

BRT on Western will get killed by the business along the strip, just like Ashland. Even though this analysis shows that they have high vacancies along the route. People consider it a thoroughfare and drive in single-occupancy vehicles expecting 40mph speeds.

[west-town-brad]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

the city tried to do BRT on ashland years ago.

and the NIMBidiots of our ass-backwards town killed it.


CHICAGO: Great City | Stupid People

call me one of those stupid people, but I don't understand where transit on these north-south routes like ashland would be taking people...

east-west like grand and chicago would make more sense because at least you get people to the job centers

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

I don't understand where transit on these north-south routes like ashland would be taking people...

to the same places that the 8 bazillion people who drive on such streets go to every day.


NEWSFLASH: most chicagoans don't work in the loop.

[Chisouthside]

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

call me one of those stupid people, but I don't understand where transit on these north-south routes like ashland would be taking people...

east-west like grand and chicago would make more sense because at least you get people to the job centers

service staff coming from southside to the medical center is one off the top of my head.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

to the same places that the 8 bazillion people who drive on such streets go to every day.


NEWSFLASH: most chicagoans don't work in the loop.

Western for sure would benefit from BRT. Sad to hear nimby assholes killed a proposed BRT on Ashland. I feel like BRT is one of those things people would love much more if they actually just tried it out. The more I take the bus on Fullerton to get East of the Kennedy, the more I love using it. I have a stop right in front of my place. The only thing that sucks is the slow pace with traffic/stops. Even then, I love it infinitely more than the thought of driving down these roads and dealing with the traffic.

[west-town-brad]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

to the same places that the 8 bazillion people who drive on such streets go to every day.


NEWSFLASH: most chicagoans don't work in the loop.

as if they just drive up and down ashland from their homes to their jobs

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

as if they just drive up and down ashland from their homes to their jobs

who said that they did?

in a RIGIDLY gridded city such as ours, an east/west and a north/south leg are required for many trips for a great many chicagoans, regardless of transportation mode.

i mean, both the ashland and western bus routes are among the top 10 busiest routes in the entire city by ridership, but somehow you have no idea at all where all of those people might be going? really?

BRT on ashland or western doesn't mean that everyone would switch to transit, it would just mean MUCH better transit for those who do use it on those corridors, along with inducing more choice riders if it truly is bona fide BRT that meaningfully reduces the dismal travel times of the conventional bus routes currently in place on those corridors.

[Randomguy34]

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

call me one of those stupid people, but I don't understand where transit on these north-south routes like ashland would be taking people...

People take buses in a city because they have places they want to go to. Since we're a city of 2.7 million people, with destinations all across the city, that typically translates to a lot of buses needed to move people.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

People take buses in a city because they have places they want to go to. Since we're a city of 2.7 million people, with destinations all across the city, that typically translates to a lot of buses needed to move people.

As someone who takes the 74 bus on Fullerton more with time.... It is never empty. Worst of times, there's a quarter of the seats filled. During the middle of the day, there are people standing on the bus, and sometimes there's two busses at a time. So, yeah, people use them on these major "sewer gutters".

[digitallagasse]

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

call me one of those stupid people, but I don't understand where transit on these north-south routes like ashland would be taking people...

east-west like grand and chicago would make more sense because at least you get people to the job centers

Those north-south bus routes are already well used. Improving the transit on those routes would already benefit all those riders and likely attract more riders as well. You can't look at each route or line in a vacuum but as a whole network. Having a good mesh network of lines and routes makes travel from various parts of the city to others part more viable.

I think a C shaped trunk line connecting trunk lines radiating out from the loop in addition to to connections do major/minor north-south routes would have a major impact on the transit network as a whole. Western Ave might be a good alignment for at least several blocks on the north side before turning east towards the lake to complete the north part of the C. The line would also need to turn east from Western Ave to enter into the south side and complete that part of the C.

Local bus routes make up that mesh and connections. The draw back being those buses get stuck in traffic and with local bus stop spacing they are not quick. Express buses or going full BRT can help build a start to that backbone. I have no doubt that ridership on such a connector route, and the additional trips across the whole transit network, will show said backbone would necessitate going full heavy rail. It is worth noting that ring and connector lines tend to be some of the highest if not the highest ridership lines on transit systems that have them.

[gandalf612]

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

call me one of those stupid people, but I don't understand where transit on these north-south routes like ashland would be taking people...

east-west like grand and chicago would make more sense because at least you get people to the job centers

Maybe you only go to and from work but some of us happen to have active social lives and like to go see friends

[west-town-brad]

ya'll funny with this BRT stuff

[Steely Dan]

and i find it even funnier that someone could ostensibly live in chicago and not understand why anyone would use transit on major N/S arterials such as ashland and western.