Great Lakes Cities

[benp]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

you can certainly find chicago arterial streets with that "mixed brick commercial/wood frame residential vernacular" kinda look too.

for example, google-drive east for a mile and a half down this stretch of diversey on the logan/avondale border:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9317...7i16384!8i8192

now, there's also a fair bit of chicago-style masonry residential vernacular mixed in there as well (brick 2/3/6-flats & low-rise apartment buildings), but it's still not radically different.

This looks like a fairly close match, style wise, with Chicago style homes in place of the Buffalo wood sided homes.

Ewing doesn't do it for me, maybe because it doesn't seem as old or densely built. Not sure what parts of Archer are being referred to, but that strip of Mexican shops has some of the vibe, but the built environment is very different. They do look like interesting streets, though.

One thing about Grant Street is that it isn't really a connection to other places, so nearly all of its traffic is local. Its never wider than 2 lanes of traffic, and both ends drop you off in a neighborhood. Like Elmwood, the narrowness of the street gives it a lot of its character.

[memph]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

These videos show the issue best.

• Video Link

• Video Link

That first video is pretty wild. Reminds me of the creek in our backyard after a downpour, but worse. I should try to take a video of that btw, it's pretty crazy how fast a gurgling stream turns into a raging river.

[lio45]

Dumb question, but if the Seaway is the limiting factor, what prevents ginormous barges from doing the constant round trip of bringing taconite from the UP of Michigan to steel works in Gary? They could be built on the lake and confined to it for their entire service life. (Which is already the case for plenty of lakers, no?)

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by lio45

Dumb question, but if the Seaway is the limiting factor, what prevents ginormous barges from doing the constant round trip of bringing taconite from the UP of Michigan to steel works in Gary? They could be built on the lake and confined to it for their entire service life. (Which is already the case for plenty of lakers, no?)

I imagine the limit is the locks on the St. Mary's River though I suppose you could have larger ships confined to lake Michigan/Huron

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by lio45

Dumb question, but if the Seaway is the limiting factor, what prevents ginormous barges from doing the constant round trip of bringing taconite from the UP of Michigan to steel works in Gary? They could be built on the lake and confined to it for their entire service life. (Which is already the case for plenty of lakers, no?)

I typically use "The Seaway" to refer to the entire system that lets a ship travel continuously from Duluth to the Atlantic Ocean. Within this system there are several more bottlenecks than just the St. Lawrence portion. The most limiting are:

- The Soo Locks connecting Superior to Huron
- The Depth of Lake St. Clair (and parts of the river I'm guessing) in which a straight channel has been dredged so as to avoid ships running aground on it's average 8 meter depth
- The Welland Canal with its multiple elevation changes

Apart from these I'm sure there would also be some localized issues with getting ships of Panamax size enough depth to dock safely in Toronto, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, etc.

[Velvet_Highground]

Got some bad news that could have been much worse. Fucking chemical valley … there was a spill in the St Clair River thank the First Nations who have to live next to the valley for reporting it quickly. Supposedly it’s contained and doesn’t appear to be major but this is a scenario has been a worrying possibility in one form or another.

I really hope this gets play with the ongoing wrangling with enbridge over their efforts to use the energy crisis to ram through the new pipeline tunnel. The US is the worlds biggest oil producer but our refineries are set to process $10 a barrel cheaper sulfur heavy imported oil rather than our “cleaner” domestic light sweet. We produce ~18 million bpd and consume 20 but we import 7.

It would be nice to see the North American energy system invest into refining cleaner to produce domestic oil during the decade or so it’s gonna take to transition to a majority electric car fleet. Not that energy companies want to put in the money to do so as with the green energy economy on the horizon. However it would seem to be a smart move to focus on cleaner to produce domestic oil that supports US jobs no one likes buying oil from The Saudis, Canadian Tar Sands is the among the dirtiest in the world to refine.

It cost the city of Detroit 2 well kept working class neighborhoods that had to be cleared out to protect residents from the extra pollution from the new sulfur heavy refining process at marathon. Smh transitioning away from fossil fuels can’t come soon enough a major spill in the lakes would be a catastrophe of epic proportions for tens of millions of people.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...d/10233366002/

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

I typically use "The Seaway" to refer to the entire system that lets a ship travel continuously from Duluth to the Atlantic Ocean. Within this system there are several more bottlenecks than just the St. Lawrence portion. The most limiting are:

- The Soo Locks connecting Superior to Huron
- The Depth of Lake St. Clair (and parts of the river I'm guessing) in which a straight channel has been dredged so as to avoid ships running aground on it's average 8 meter depth
- The Welland Canal with its multiple elevation changes

Apart from these I'm sure there would also be some localized issues with getting ships of Panamax size enough depth to dock safely in Toronto, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, etc.

this seems like an appropriate diagram to repost for those unfamiliar with the relative elevations, depths, and connecting waterways of the 5 (but technically only 4) Great lakes.


source: https://www.michiganseagrant.org/les...e-great-lakes/

[mrnyc]

whats the dark blue part of the bottom of lake michigan?

active chicago voter corpses?

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

whats the dark blue part of the bottom of lake michigan?

it's shaded darker blue on that diagram to differentiate lake michigan's greater maximum depth than that of lake huron.

though we conventionally think of them as two separate lakes, they are, hydrologically, a single giant lake with two main primary lobes, the largest single body of freshwater on the planet by surface area with over 45,000 sq. miles of freshwater (though still only 4th by volume as lake baikal, lake tanganyika, and lake superior supersede it by volume given their greater depths).

the straits of mackinac that connect the two lobes of lake huron-michigan are still roughly 5 miles wide and over 300' deep, with water freely flowing back in forth in both directions between both lobes, hence why they share the same elevation and are thus, technically, a single lake.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

it's shaded darker blue o that diagram to differentiate lake michigan's greater maximum depth than that of lake huron.

though we conventionally think of them as two separate lakes, they are, hydrologically, a single giant lake with two main primary lobes, the largest single body of freshwater on the planet by surface area (though still only 3rd for volume as both lake baikal and lake superior supersede it by volume given their greater depths).

the straits of mackinac that connect the two lobes of lake huron-michigan are still roughly 5 miles wide and over 300' deep, with water freely flowing back in forth in both directions between both lobes, hence why they share the same elevation and thus are, technically, a single lake.

well that makes sense.

that, or the voter body piles.

there is plenty of mystery, like even a stonehenge was found down there:

https://www.reddit.com/r/interesting..._are_arranged/

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

there is plenty of mystery, like even a stonehenge was found down there:

plenty of mystery, yes, but no, not a stonehenge.


from the discoverer's own keyboard:

This site seems to gain a life in the media about every six months or so. Sadly, much of the information out there is incorrect. For example, there is not a henge associated with the site and the individual stones are relatively small when compared to what most people think of as European standing stones. It should be clearly understood that this is not a megalith site like Stonehenge. This label has been placed on the site by individuals in the press who may have been attempting to generate sensation about the story and have not visited the site. The site in Grand Traverse Bay is best described as a long line of stones which is over a mile in length.

source: https://holleyarchaeology.com/wordpr...lake-michigan/

[lio45]

mrnyc:

It's easy to guess: Lake Huron and Lake Michigan overlap in position in the water system (Lake Huron and Lake Michigan being "the part of the Great Lakes System that's between the Soo Locks and Port Huron, at ~577 ft above sea level").

In fact, I'm pretty sure I've heard already that they're technically the same lake.

(Lake Superior is its own lake, Huron and Michigan are in fact the same lake, Lake Erie is its own lake and Lake Ontario is also its own lake.)


edit: Ninja'd. I should have known a Great Lakes thread doesn't stay dormant for many minutes before Steely Dan's spider sense tingles to tell him to show up in it

[lio45]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

whats the dark blue part of the bottom of lake michigan?

active chicago voter corpses?

It's not at the bottom of lake Michigan; it's the rich untapped deposits of blue hydrogen that lie under the bottom of lake Huron.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by lio45

In fact, I'm pretty sure I've heard already that they're technically the same lake.

and as there really are only 4 great lakes, not 5, we can also say that all 4 great lakes are shared between our two nations, disregarding those haughty americans who might like to brag that lake michigan is the only great lake entirely within a single nation. technically, those people are wrong. lake michigan and lake huron are cultural constructs, not a geographical ones.

[lio45]

What fascinates me about that graph is that a diver swimming in the lower parts of Lake Superior who would start to drill a perfectly horizontal tunnel would go under the entire Great Lakes System until finally hitting water for the first time in the Atlantic Ocean.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by lio45

What fascinates me about that graph is that a diver swimming in the lower parts of Lake Superior who would start to drill a perfectly horizontal tunnel would go under the entire Great Lakes System until finally hitting water for the first time in the Atlantic Ocean.

aren’t there a lot of underground aquifers along the way? i guess a little more drilling like that wouldn’t matter much as aren’t they already ruining those with fracking. wait, are they still fracking, or was that an earlier 2000s thing? you don’t hear about it anymore.

[pj3000]

The depth map always puts it in perspective, and makes it easy to see why Lake Erie is where the vast majority of the fishies are.

[Steely Dan]

^ "only 2% of the water, but 50% of the fish", as the old saying goes.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by pj3000

The depth map always puts it in perspective, and makes it easy to see why Lake Erie is where the vast majority of the fishies are.

i dk about the other lakes, but you can literally pull the walleye in as soon as the line hits the water around cedar point.

[Steely Dan]

^ makes sense. lake erie, at large, is the southernmost and shallowest of the 5 great lakes, and therefore the warmest, which means many fishes.

but the western basin of lake erie, as defined by a line roughly from cedar point up to point pelee along the lake erie islands, is even shallower and warmer still, so maximum fish-ness.


lake erie:
average depth: 62'
maximum depth: 210'

western basin:
average depth: 24'
maximum depth: 62'


the western basin of lake erie is by far the shallowest large-scale region of the 5 great lakes, and only superseded in shallowness in the whole system by lake st. clair, which is unbelievably shallow for its size. i imagine that the fishing on lake st. clair is pretty damn good too. saginaw bay on lake huron ad green bay on lake michigan are relatively shallow as well, but the western basin of lake erie has them both beat.


lake st. clair:
average depth: 11'
maximum depth: 23' natural (a 27' deep shipping channel across the lake is maintained by the army corps of engineeers)




here's a decent bathymetry map showing how much of an outlier lake erie is when it comes to water depths:


source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...ymetry_map.png