Winnipeg | Portage and Main

[J.OT13]

Thank you Wpg_Guy for the anecdote and pictures. Truly gives us a perspective of the ridiculousness and state of disrepair.

Note that I've never been to Winnipeg (we will be visiting at the end of August), but I will still give my two cents.

To me, it's always been clear that they should re-open the intersection. To force pedestrians underground in order to save drivers a minute is just wrong on so many levels.

If it were up to me, I would open up the intersection and implement a system similar to that Japanese(?) intersection on the first page; give a minute (or however, long needed to allow people such as the elder gentlemen in that picture further up on this page to be able to safely cross the intersection) for all pedestrians to cross, an then give cars their priority as we have today.

I'm supportive of an underground/indoor option to give people an alternative option, but seeing the damage to the entrances and stairways, it might be worth shutting down completely. Either fill the circus with concrete or, keep it open, but with access to buildings only, not street level.

In Ottawa, we only have one intersection, as far as I can think, that forces people to go down stairs and back up, and that is at Rideau and Colonel By, from old Union Station (soon to be the temporary Senate) to the S/W entrance to the Rideau Centre. This one is not accessible; no elevators, no ramps. The NCC was planning on redesigning the intersection a few years ago, but has since shelved the project.

For P&M, there are no accessible entrances at street level, is that correct? People have to go though buildings for elevators. Are those lobbies open outside business hours to make them accessible at all times.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Ando

It's actually amazing that it hasn't been condemned and closed.

Agreed. One of the staircases is fully missing a stair. It's completely gone.

Originally Posted by factis

Had lunch with my father-in-law yesterday at the Fairmont (back door burgers) and he asked how I felt about opening up the intersection. I said I was for it and he seemed shocked. So I took him on a walk into the underground and explained the safety concerns and the brutal conditions for anyone in a wheel chair or with a stroller. Needless to say he was converted. Long story short, seeing is believing. Physical tours would not be a bad idea in terms of educating the general public on this matter.

Agreed. A big issue here (as always, and anywhere) is that people have made up their minds before considering any facts or other opinions, and they will fight to the death for them.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

For P&M, there are no accessible entrances at street level, is that correct? People have to go though buildings for elevators. Are those lobbies open outside business hours to make them accessible at all times.

That is correct. And on the SE side where the historic BMO building is, there is no accessible entrance at all. IIRC some of the buildings used to stay open almost 24/7, but that is not the case anymore.

I remember crossing the street underground after leaving Whiskey Dix at 2 am years and years ago, but I don't think it's possible anymore. And a lot of the signage is extremely unclear.

[robertocarlos]

https://winnipegsun.com/opinion/colu...-0803-brodbeck

Contract will be awarded before election.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by factis

Had lunch with my father-in-law yesterday at the Fairmont (back door burgers) and he asked how I felt about opening up the intersection. I said I was for it and he seemed shocked. So I took him on a walk into the underground and explained the safety concerns and the brutal conditions for anyone in a wheel chair or with a stroller. Needless to say he was converted. Long story short, seeing is believing. Physical tours would not be a bad idea in terms of educating the general public on this matter.

This is the problem.

Somehow, our population casually descended into a defaulted position that the barriers are normal, and that removing them is absurd. With no reason, logic, or education, we were somehow all convinced that this is how it should be.

People ask me all the time, and are shocked to find out that a) the delay will be small, and b) that I would put up with that little delay on a daily basis.

I'm notoriously impatient, but what???

Originally Posted by robertocarlos

https://winnipegsun.com/opinion/colu...-0803-brodbeck

Contract will be awarded before election.

Good.

[DowntownBooster]

Originally Posted by factis

Had lunch with my father-in-law yesterday at the Fairmont (back door burgers) and he asked how I felt about opening up the intersection. I said I was for it and he seemed shocked. So I took him on a walk into the underground and explained the safety concerns and the brutal conditions for anyone in a wheel chair or with a stroller. Needless to say he was converted. Long story short, seeing is believing. Physical tours would not be a bad idea in terms of educating the general public on this matter.

That would be a great idea if the majority of the voting public were willing to do so. Unfortunately most people that see the corner are just driving through and are unlikely to pay much attention to the state of disrepair. It's too bad that the 'Yes' campaign couldn't deliver a leaflet containing closeup pictures and facts about traffic flow, etc. to households throughout the city to inform the general public in order to combat the misinformation from the 'No' side.

[buzzg]

If I had money I would take Browaty and any other councillor or candidate to court over every lie they've spread on twitter and in the news.

[trueviking]

Another interesting tid bit from the Dillon Report. They used data from surrounding crosswalks to predict the number of pedestrians that will use portage and main. For the two peak rush hours they use 6,000 vehicles and 2,000 pedestrians. They predict that will rise in time up to 50%. That’s a pretty decent ratio. Do when Browaty says it’s for nobody he’s wrong.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by robertocarlos

https://winnipegsun.com/opinion/colu...-0803-brodbeck

Contract will be awarded before election.

https://winnipegsun.com/news/local-n...civic-election

....aaaaand it's off again.

[GlassCity]

I'm curious if you asked a driver why they think their time is more important than pedestrians', what they would say.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I'm curious if you asked a driver why they think their time is more important than pedestrians', what they would say.

Well, a lot of drivers would be involved in commercial activities (trucks, etc.) on which downtown’s prosperity depends, and others would be conveying multiple people in their vehicles (e.g. bus drivers), so you’d need to consider the importance of the time of 3 people in a taxi (for example) vs. a single pedestrian. Those would be a couple of possible answers.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Well, a lot of drivers would be involved in commercial activities (trucks, etc.) on which downtown’s prosperity depends, and others would be conveying multiple people in their vehicles (e.g. bus drivers), so you’d need to consider the importance of the time of 3 people in a taxi (for example) vs. a single pedestrian. Those would be a couple of possible answers.

Sure, but my impression is it's mostly single-occupancy vehicle drivers opposing this.

But even if it is taxis or buses, I think the inconvenience of waiting in a car is lesser than the inconvenience of going all the way down, trying to figure out where the hell you're even supposed to go, then climbing back up.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Sure, but my impression is it's mostly single-occupancy vehicle drivers opposing this.

But even if it is taxis or buses, I think the inconvenience of waiting in a car is lesser than the inconvenience of going all the way down, trying to figure out where the hell you're even supposed to go, then climbing back up.

You have the best avatar.

PC Principal rules!

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

You have the best avatar.

PC Principal rules!

Thanks BRAH!

[Ando]

Interesting article in the FP today by Dan Lett, Motkaluk is turning to conspiracy theories now on PandM. TV is apparently on of the head conspirators.

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/lo...490229081.html

[HamburgerHelper]

i am thinking roundabout!

This facebook group has links to a few interesting articles on the topic of a roundabout at Portage and Main:
2014 Free Press article about a roundabout at Portage and Main
https://www.facebook.com/groups/roun...5372391163881/
link to a redditt group for a roundabout at PM.
2013 Sun's April Fool article about a roundabout at Portage and Main https://www.facebook.com/groups/roun...8413311193125/
Aroundthistown.ca article https://www.facebook.com/groups/roun...3860521315068/


https://www.facebook.com/groups/roundabouts/

[windypeg]

Originally Posted by HamburgerHelper

i am thinking roundabout!

This facebook group has links to a few interesting articles on the topic of a roundabout at Portage and Main:
2014 Free Press article about a roundabout at Portage and Main
https://www.facebook.com/groups/roun...5372391163881/
link to a redditt group for a roundabout at PM.
2013 Sun's April Fool article about a roundabout at Portage and Main https://www.facebook.com/groups/roun...8413311193125/
Aroundthistown.ca article https://www.facebook.com/groups/roun...3860521315068/


https://www.facebook.com/groups/roundabouts/

It's really telling that a concept that is tried and tested, and proven successful in large, busy intersections all over the world, would be seen by the Sun as April fool's fodder. If you were wondering where Winnipeggers get their fierce resistance to change and new ideas, look no further.

[Authentic_City]

And the debate just keeps descending to new depths. The Free Press is reporting that the Manitoba Trucking Association is opposed to reopening Portage and Main. Because of safety concerns, no less.

First of all, their argument about safety is absurd. Heavy trucks going though downtown have to navigate dozens of intersections with pedestrian crossings, what make P&M so different? And good lord, why on earth would we prioritize heavy truck traffic through the middle of downtown over pedestrians? This is further confirmation that many folks view Portage and Main as nothing more than an expressway interchange in the heart of the city.

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/lo...490764971.html

[oftheMoon]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

And the debate just keeps descending to new depths. The Free Press is reporting that the Manitoba Trucking Association is opposed to reopening Portage and Main. Because of safety concerns, no less.

First of all, their argument about safety is absurd. Heavy trucks going though downtown have to navigate dozens of intersections with pedestrian crossings, what make P&M so different? And good lord, why on earn would we prioritize heavy truck traffic through the middle of downtown over pedestrians? This is further confirmation that many folks view Portage and Main as nothing more than an expressway interchange in the heart of the city.

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/lo...490764971.html

Sadly I read more and more shyt like this and as a #TeamOpen person some days I feel defeated. While I think the YES folks are growing or coming out of the woodwork, the "I don't care/NO" folks exist in masses and will not change no matter what is presented to them. And the NO "logic" is killing me! It's going to be an extremely painful 10 weeks.

[Wolf13]

No roundabout...

Winnipeggers don't know how to operate or when to signal within a quiet suburban roundabout... never mind P+M.

[bomberjet]

The fact the truck industry is using P & M as a trucking route speaks volumes. Why the hell would they want to drive right through the middle of the City? To deliver bread and stuff downtown, fine. Otherwise, they silly.