Winnipeg - Of Interest

[drew]

Originally Posted by esquire

Manitoba Hydro Place and Canada Life Centre are two relatively recent projects that were intended to help rejuvenate Portage Avenue. Close to half a billion for those two projects alone and Portage is worse than ever. I think it's clear that public investment on Portage Ave (and before that on Main Street) has not yielded benefits... you can look back at decades of projects for proof of that.

That's why whatever happens to Portage Place should be private sector driven and funded.

I can see this argument with MHP. That building should have gone on a vacant or underused piece of land downtown for maximum benefit.

WRT Canada Life Centre - that solved an immediate need to deal with a massive building that would quite likely have sat vacant for decades, and even if it was redeveloped, its immense size would have sucked the life and funding out most every other development we have seen in the downtown since then.

Portage Place will require public money to solve the issues it created (using public money) - Namely sealing off the sidewalk along Portage for several blocks and creating a dead zone behind it. No one is touching this redevelopment without some grease, and rightly so.

The situation on Portage Avenue was/is everyone panicking and trying (not effectively) to adjust to the changing reality of shopping in the City, and the purpose of the street. If it had been mostly left alone, the smaller buildings and spaces probably could have adjusted more effectively to a new reality. Especially in comparison to the unmitigated disaster that continues to be Portage Place.

I do think Canada Life Centre has been a benefit - without a doubt.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by drew

I do think Canada Life Centre has been a benefit - without a doubt.

Sure. But I think those benefits to the city, primarily in the form of providing a much-needed new sports arena and concert venue for Winnipeg, and ultimately facilitating the return of the NHL are not really related to the arena's location. Those benefits would have been realized regardless of whether the arena went up downtown, at Polo Park or at the U of M.

I guess you can say that CLC helped spawn Centrepoint and TNS, but that's more or less where the spinoffs end. You just need to walk the streets surrounding the arena for proof of that. And that is the reason why I wouldn't be looking for ways to spend even more public money on Portage with things like a publicly-backed Portage Place redevelopment project... an absolute fortune went into that project a generation ago to rejuvenate Portage. It has failed by any objective measure. That alone should tell you that putting more public money into it is a bad idea.

[drew]

^ the problem we have is that to get out of a publicly financed disaster, you will need to add funding to make it feasible. Any way out of the existing Portage Place layout will require public money. Even if you just were to tear it down and leave it as a stand along 2-level underground parkade.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by drew

^ the problem we have is that to get out of a publicly financed disaster, you will need to add funding to make it feasible. Any way out of the existing Portage Place layout will require public money. Even if you just were to tear it down and leave it as a stand along 2-level underground parkade.

Yes, I take your point. It will require some money to facilitate redevelopment. But I would lean towards "do just enough to make the site appealing to developers" vs. repeat the Portage Place experience where government acts as a private developer, pouring huge amounts of money into what is ultimately a risky commercial venture.

I'm not upset that Portage Place was built, I'm sure it was a great idea at the time that followed all of the 'best practices', such as they were then. But I think that at the same time, we need to learn from these experiences. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, etc.

[GreyGarden]

I just saw this Spacing article on downtown safety:

http://spacing.ca/toronto/2023/02/03...ecome-reality/

Winnipeg gets a “shoutout”. Obviously it is very Toronto-focused, I am not trying to say the safety concerns there are similar to the concerns here. But it’s an interesting discussion about perception, crime and safety.

I agree with the author about increasing police presence on transit.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

I just saw this Spacing article on downtown safety:

http://spacing.ca/toronto/2023/02/03...ecome-reality/

Winnipeg gets a “shoutout”. Obviously it is very Toronto-focused, I am not trying to say the safety concerns there are similar to the concerns here. But it’s an interesting discussion about perception, crime and safety.

I agree with the author about increasing police presence on transit.

Perception and bias tends to govern individual behaviour. The negativity that some people appear to embrace as a lifestyle choice, and actively try to recruit others into, is very difficult to overcome but not impossible.

IMO keeping a healthy perspective on Winnipeg's issues, seeing them realistically but not inflating them to Godzilla-level terrors, is something many of us, including myself, have to work on if were are going to enact the changes we hope will benefit our city.

In other words, don't be a "Futilitarian", it doesn't help anyone or anything.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yes, I take your point. It will require some money to facilitate redevelopment. But I would lean towards "do just enough to make the site appealing to developers" vs. repeat the Portage Place experience where government acts as a private developer, pouring huge amounts of money into what is ultimately a risky commercial venture.

I'm not upset that Portage Place was built, I'm sure it was a great idea at the time that followed all of the 'best practices', such as they were then. But I think that at the same time, we need to learn from these experiences. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, etc.

I think the bar has been set for portage place and the next developer will expect from government something close to what was given to Starlight.....especially if they are local.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by trueviking

I think the bar has been set for portage place and the next developer will expect from government something close to what was given to Starlight.....especially if they are local.

$50 million in grants and $240 million in loans as per this story?

I honestly wonder if the ship may have sailed for good (or at least the foreseeable future) for something like Starlight's original proposal. Even before the pandemic it seemed a little far fetched, but now that type of development looks downright improbable at that location.

What is the situation there anyway? I presume Peterson Investment Group has a long term lease on the above-ground portion of the site? Or do they actually own it? I would imagine Peterson would be happy to listen to any reasonable offer. With the direction that Portage Place is going, I wonder if they may eventually close down the mall as a retail operation.

[pspeid]

Two recent news articles of interest to people in Winnipeg:

The mayor's first budget was announced:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...main-1.6740703

Also in the Free Press website there was an article suggesting the Manitoba Conservatives were planning a funding boost to the city. I couldn't read the article because of the paywall, but I think there have been past suggestions that Stephenson would reverse the Pallister cut-backs to municipalities.

As for Gillingham's first budget, most of it was kind of what I expected. I liked the funding for sewer infrastructure in Centre Port, and the new bus barn was a bit of a surprise, though I don't follow transit issues that closely. Otherwise a few promises to start looking at a couple roadway issues but otherwise it was kind of bland and visionless. Kind of what I expected, but I had hoped I would be wrong.

The provincial news, if it's true (and in an election year it probably is) seems like good news, though we still have to see when the $$ would be delivered and how much the city would get.

[wags_in_the_peg]

from article
"Manitoba’s Progressive Conservative government says it will give a “generous” funding increase to the cash-strapped City of Winnipeg, ending a seven-year freeze on operating grants to local governments.

Municipal Relations Minister Andrew Smith confirmed Thursday the province will boost cash transfers to municipalities, one day after the City of Winnipeg tabled its preliminary budget, and months ahead of a provincial election.

“Under the leadership of Premier (Heather) Stefanson, we are committed to meeting the needs of Manitobans and the communities we serve,” Smith said in response to questions from the Free Press. “We are pleased to confirm we will be providing a generous increase in operating grants to municipalities this year.”

Smith declined to elaborate on what his government considers generous, but said conversations with local governments continue.

“We are currently in the process of pre-budget consultations and look forward to communicating with municipal leaders in the coming weeks,” he said."

[Biff]

Originally Posted by pspeid

...and the new bus barn was a bit of a surprise, though I don't follow transit issues that closely.

The new North Transit Garage has been in the planning since 2011. They haven't had the funding for it and the imminent need for until this year. It is long passed it's useful functioning date and will not be able to accommodate the new electric buses the city ordered.

[thebasketballgeek]

Any idea where they’re gonna build the new transit garage or are they using the same site?

[anthonyk]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Any idea where they’re gonna build the new transit garage or are they using the same site?

See below from 2022 Expression of Interest "Transit North Garage Replacement Site"

[esquire]

Lots of possible contenders in that range.

[pspeid]

Inner city bridges; from today's CBC news website:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...ysis-1.6744419

I try very hard not to be one of the interminable complainers you see in forums like this, but this is an area that truly frustrates me. There is no debate whether the Arlington and Louise bridges need to be replaced, they simply do. The fact is, they never do, and I'm afraid there will never be movement on this until one or both partially collapse and there will be loss of life and property.

The article points out that there has been federal money for other big ticket projects in the city, making them more feasible to complete. It also points out that prioritizing $$ for projects that will help generate revenue seems like a legitimate way to prioritize spending. I suppose that's fair to an extent, but IMO the politics of "inner city vs outlying areas" has to be a big factor in whether or not these projects proceed.

Even though Janice Lukes is quoted in the article as saying: "I honestly don't think it's an inner-city versus outlying areas thing. I think we prioritize where we can we get the best bang for the buck.", IMO the influence that politicians have, or choose to have, on where federal funding gets directed has been a huge factor in the continued delays to get these projects started.

"The squeaky wheel gets the grease" is an old adage that I think applies here. The inner city can be conveniently ignored when the bulk of the city/provincial representatives live elsewhere. I can't help but think these decisions contribute to feelings of desertion and neglect when inner city residents see $$ being directed towards other infrastructure projects when their needs get all but ignored.

[Luisito]

The Louise bridge scares me. I have been stuck on there in traffic and the thing moves around like crazy.

[esquire]

Another hole in the rapidly fraying urban fabric of North Main as the former Kern Hill Furniture building burns down.

From the CP tracks right up to Redwood, so many buildings have been lost over the last 40 years and hardly any have been built. The physical character of this strip has taken a dramatic turn for the worse, and it seems that each year another building is lost to a fire like this one.

[WinCitySparky]

The only way anyone is ever going to develop anything there is after every single building in that wasteland of a strip has gone down to fire. Higgins to Selkirk is straight blight.

[cllew]

The owner of the building that was on fire has been in a long term lawsuit with the City of Winnipeg over the fact that the rear fire exit is not compliant with building codes as it opens into a neighboring buildings compound, and the neighbor does not have keep the door space open.

The city has been trying to get Surplus Direct to vacate the building since 2013 until the door issue was resolved.

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/br...ct-liquidation

[pspeid]

Looks like the concert many people in Winnipeg said would "never happen here" is happening in November. Get your tickets now, Springsteen fans!

https://www.chrisd.ca/2023/02/14/bru...cert-winnipeg/