Does the +15 system make Calgary a better winter city?

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by reflexzero

+15 is nice, but there aren't nearly enough connections, especially around Suncor. It's classic Calgary, you can't get there from here.

But it sure beats ankle-breaking slippery sidewalks.

How is that classic Calgary?

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by MichaelS

How is that classic Calgary?

I think I know what he's talking about. Calgary has a lot of issues like this in its road system - roads that just disappear, or end suddenly and start up somewhere else with an untraversable gap in between. Plus our retail establishments are full of adjacent parking lots that you cannot drive between - you have to go back out to the street, then come in again.

[Ferreth]

Originally Posted by freeweed

I think I know what he's talking about. Calgary has a lot of issues like this in its road system - roads that just disappear, or end suddenly and start up somewhere else with an untraversable gap in between. Plus our retail establishments are full of adjacent parking lots that you cannot drive between - you have to go back out to the street, then come in again.

I'd say it's "Classic Calgary" in that Calgary will cut a road off with no good reason. Harvest Hills Blvd - Centre St is a "classic" example. The City planned to cut it right from square one, with no reason other than forcing people to use Deerfoot. Or, the city buckles to local pressure, such as not connecting Sarcee north with Sarcee south, because a piddly 5 short blocks of Bowness residence and OMG! a river crossing! somehow balances making everyone else's life in the NW and WSW that much more miserable for lack of river crossings.

As far as the +15 goes, the reason we have so many holes is that there are still many lots of parking or original low density development that never had +15's planned. The Bow is going to plug a huge hole in the network, as can be seen in the newly updated +15 map, connecting Suncor (still "Petro Canada" on the map) with Telus. & points east. Although, I'd say for once the city is a little ahead of itself mapping out the Bow's connection - are we still not a full year away from seeing any of this open?

Heh - I just noticed that they don't have any of EAP's + 15 to Centennial Parkade in there - which is a lot closer to opening than the Bow's.

[MalcolmTucker]

That map is just awful. Perhaps they could just number buildings and have a list off to the side? Perhaps breaking the city up into west central and east districts with different building colours so that when you find your destination in the list, you only have to search through 1/3rd of the map instead of the whole thing.

[Innersoul1]

On days like today I am very much happy that we have a plus 15 system!

[Radley77]

I noticed that the newest City of Calgary +15 map doesn't have the connection to Eighth Avenue Place which I think has already been constructed over 4th street but is not in services. Whereas, it shows the connection between the Bow and Telus, and that hasn't even started yet...

Would LOVE to see more thought put into wayfinding on the street level, and perhaps with a more thematic experience versus utilitarianism of the +15. I think bold and creative wayfinding is key to creating a more vibrant city centre.

I could also see a one stop vending shop for cultural/sports tickets downtown as being a good business idea. I could see something like this being a better financial success than say compared to the trinket shops in Eau Claire(?). I was in Eau Claire market this last weekend, and there is now significant square footage that is unleased.

[mersar]

The problem with the new +15 over 4th is it doesn't connect to anything yet (it's quite a ways set back from the parkade and my guess is may just be built but won't be use until that parking lot is redeveloped)

[Radley77]

Originally Posted by mersar

The problem with the new +15 over 4th is it doesn't connect to anything yet (it's quite a ways set back from the parkade and my guess is may just be built but won't be use until that parking lot is redeveloped)

I went by this +15 the other day because I was curious about a +15 that goes to nowhere. I snapped a photo from the +15 that is connected to the parkade. I couldn't really tell which way it was going to connect as it would be akward to install at this point.



Hopefully there is bright lighting under the bottom of the +15...

[DizzyEdge]

Revisiting the comments about Barclay parade, much of the discussion was that although the street has lots of potential with it's wide sidewalks, art, and ...sometimes in your way planters and benches, much of the businesses that are adjacent to it are not pedestrian friendly or interesting. I had brought up the notion about whether focusing on food or other mobile vendors might be an interesting way to bring the desired pedestrian-interesting frontages to the streetside if not the building side.

Anyway, I was google streetviewing St John's NF and something interesting caught my eye:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=h&...,0.026157&z=16

I looked around a bit more and found:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=4...,11.61,,1,3.52

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=4...41.17,,0,14.72

A bit of googling brought up:

Motorized Vending Sites:

Public Property
The City permits vending from public parking spaces in the following commercial zones:

Churchill Square 1 site leased, vehicle permitted to remain on site throughout the year
Downtown 5 sites designated as lease sites, vehicles permitted to remain on site throughout the year

Harbour Drive parking permitted on metered spaces while vending business is in operation (meters to be paid) vehicle must not be left unattended

One designated site is available for lease at the present time:
George Street, Corner of Queen Street, adjacent to Dooley's

Annual fees for leased spaces are:

Churchill Square $1,500 + HST
Downtown $3,000 + HST

Open Air Market, Churchill Square
The City has designated a small area of the Churchill Square parking lot as an open air market, generally referred to as the “farmers market” for the purposes of outdoor vending. Fourteen parking stalls are allocated for the market area which are renewable annually in May at a cost of $250 per year.

So it looks like those teal parking spaces are the downtown leased spaces mentioned, for $3000 a year.

Looking up and down Barclay Parade, there's about 24-26 spaces between 9th ave and 2nd ave, mostly double spaces, a few singles. If one was to designated 1 of each double space, and the couple of single spaces as vendor parking, you'd end up with about 12 spots.

What do you guys think, worthwhile? totally ludicrous?

[Radley77]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Revisiting the comments about Barclay parade, much of the discussion was that although the street has lots of potential with it's wide sidewalks, art, and ...sometimes in your way planters and benches, much of the businesses that are adjacent to it are not pedestrian friendly or interesting. I had brought up the notion about whether focusing on food or other mobile vendors might be an interesting way to bring the desired pedestrian-interesting frontages to the streetside if not the building side.

Anyway, I was google streetviewing St John's NF and something interesting caught my eye:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=h&...,0.026157&z=16

I looked around a bit more and found:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=4...,11.61,,1,3.52

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=4...41.17,,0,14.72

A bit of googling brought up:

Motorized Vending Sites:

Public Property
The City permits vending from public parking spaces in the following commercial zones:

Churchill Square 1 site leased, vehicle permitted to remain on site throughout the year
Downtown 5 sites designated as lease sites, vehicles permitted to remain on site throughout the year

Harbour Drive parking permitted on metered spaces while vending business is in operation (meters to be paid) vehicle must not be left unattended

One designated site is available for lease at the present time:
George Street, Corner of Queen Street, adjacent to Dooley's

Annual fees for leased spaces are:

Churchill Square $1,500 + HST
Downtown $3,000 + HST

Open Air Market, Churchill Square
The City has designated a small area of the Churchill Square parking lot as an open air market, generally referred to as the “farmers market” for the purposes of outdoor vending. Fourteen parking stalls are allocated for the market area which are renewable annually in May at a cost of $250 per year.

So it looks like those teal parking spaces are the downtown leased spaces mentioned, for $3000 a year.

Looking up and down Barclay Parade, there's about 24-26 spaces between 9th ave and 2nd ave, mostly double spaces, a few singles. If one was to designated 1 of each double space, and the couple of single spaces as vendor parking, you'd end up with about 12 spots.

What do you guys think, worthwhile? totally ludicrous?

I think it's a pretty cool idea. I'd love for Calgary to have a bigger and more experimental underground food scene a la alley burgers. I'm not sure how economically viable it would be to have a dozen vendors competing for the same captive audience though. I am travelling to Portland this weekend and hoping to hit up some of their awesome food cart scene ( http://www.foodcartsportland.com/ ). Will take notes on what is and isn't workking.

[DizzyEdge]

Yeah I checked out the food carts when I was in Portland, and that is part of what brought up the idea.

[whiteford]

The plus 15 network is simply wonderfull. It serves its community in a positive way and I don’t think there are any big drawbacks. It sure does not take away from the street life in nearly as dramatic of fusion as it is being accused of. For the people that actually use the system, it is more likely viewed as a god send. I don't think that it was designed to make Calgary a better winter city. It was designed to do just what it is doing to this day. Connecting many office buildings together, for the welfare of the workers that use it on a regular or not so regular basis. In that way it is a world class indoor walkway system. Perhaps it is the world’s best indoor walkway system.

[armorand93]

Lets put it this way:

Elevated Walkway = No office workers going out when its -40

Doesn't make it a better winter city though. Maybe if Eau Claire market got a skywalk

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by whiteford

The plus 15 network is simply wonderfull. It serves its community in a positive way and I don’t think there are any big drawbacks. It sure does not take away from the street life in nearly as dramatic of fusion as it is being accused of. For the people that actually use the system, it is more likely viewed as a god send. I don't think that it was designed to make Calgary a better winter city. It was designed to do just what it is doing to this day. Connecting many office buildings together, for the welfare of the workers that use it on a regular or not so regular basis. In that way it is a world class indoor walkway system. Perhaps it is the world’s best indoor walkway system.

The layout is confusing though, ESPECIALLY around the Mariott or Glenbow Museum

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by armorand93

The layout is confusing though, ESPECIALLY around the Mariott or Glenbow Museum

Big deal. Figure it out. I certainly dont complain when there is a windchill outside. In the summer (or on a warm day) I walk outdoors instead, but ususally tempted to walk through the CORE shoppping centre everytime!

[whiteford]

Although it has some drawbacks, the system is still a world beater. Any big city that gets cold like Calgary does should demand such a system. Many people use the system, and that itself is a testament of its usefulness. I can’t imagine Calgary without its plus 15.

[Bigtime]

The city conducted counts of +15 usage in January, here is the map with the results:

http://www.calgary.ca/DocGallery/BU/...ts-2011-01.pdf

[kw5150]

very cool.

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by whiteford

Although it has some drawbacks, the system is still a world beater. Any big city that gets cold like Calgary does should demand such a system. Many people use the system, and that itself is a testament of its usefulness. I can’t imagine Calgary without its plus 15.

And until they stop using harsh salts on the roads I will continue to keep my leather shoes is good shape by using the plus 15s in the winter, especially on soggy days.

[freeweed]

That's a cool find, thanks BT!

It mostly fits with my experience. I've walked most of the +15 by now and there are some surprisingly busy "outlier" walkways. The main N-S corridor between 2nd and 3rd is by far the major highway here.

I'm shocked at how little traffic the Bow has seen so far.