Dallas: Capitol of America's Heartland?

[ue]

Originally Posted by liat91

Good descriptions, though I might put Miami is the king of not just the Caribbean but all of Latin America(hispanic+).

That's a very US-centric way of looking at a region that is not at all part of the US. You do realize Mexico City, Havana, Panama City, Bogota, Sao Paolo, Santiago, and Buenos Aires exist, right? This is like saying Buffalo is the capital of Canada because lots of Ontarians shop there, hockey is popular, and Tim Hortons is everywhere.

Also why is it so hard for people to realize "capitol" is not the same as capital?

[SFBruin]

^ I think that the original poster meant that Miami is the capital of the Latin American community within the US.

[pj3000]

Capital vs. capitol

We learned this in third grade. Big red “F” on the paper

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa

For me:

• Atlanta is the Capital of the South and Black America
• Boston is the Capital of New England
• Chicago is the Capital of the Midwest
• Dallas is the Capital of the Great Plains
• Denver is the Capital of the Mountain Station
• Detroit is the Capital of Arab America
• Houston is the Capital of the Gulf Coast
• Los Angeles is the Capital of the West Coast and Hispanic America
• Miami is the Capital of the Caribbean
• New York is the Capital of the Northeast and Jewish America
• Phoenix is the Capital of the Southwest
• San Francisco is the Capital of Asian America and LGBT America
• Seattle is the Capital of the Pacific Northwest
• Washington is the Actual Capital

I consider the Heartland far more expansive than the Great Plains, so I don't agree with the article. I think Chicago is the Capital of the Heartland, in that the Midwest is far bigger than the Great Plains, and both are considered "Heartland" regions.

New York is the de facto capital of America. Ask any person outside of the US what the most important American city is, and 99% will state NY.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by ue

That's a very US-centric way of looking at a region that is not at all part of the US. You do realize Mexico City, Havana, Panama City, Bogota, Sao Paolo, Santiago, and Buenos Aires exist, right? This is like saying Buffalo is the capital of Canada because lots of Ontarians shop there, hockey is popular, and Tim Hortons is everywhere.

Also why is it so hard for people to realize "capitol" is not the same as capital?

Buffalo is definitely America's Gateway to Canada
"Hey Stan, you want a Molsons or Labatts?"
"Pick me up a Large double-double!"

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

New York is the de facto capital of America. Ask any person outside of the US what the most important American city is, and 99% will state NY.

No, DC is the capital. Doesn't matter if NYC is more important. Lots of cities are more important than DC, such as SF and LA. DC is the capital.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by ue

That's a very US-centric way of looking at a region that is not at all part of the US. You do realize Mexico City, Havana, Panama City, Bogota, Sao Paolo, Santiago, and Buenos Aires exist, right? This is like saying Buffalo is the capital of Canada because lots of Ontarians shop there, hockey is popular, and Tim Hortons is everywhere.

Also why is it so hard for people to realize "capitol" is not the same as capital?

Exactly. We know SSP is virtually 100% US, but it's weird to see people ignoring the whole world outside.

The US is big, but it's 25% of world economy and 4% of population (and shrinking its share in both fronts). Sure it's the single most important country, but there is a whole massive world outside its borders.

Miami, for instance, houses 2 million Latin Americans or so? Latin America itself houses 600 million of them, including 6 megacities.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by DCReid

No, DC is the capital. Doesn't matter if NYC is more important. Lots of cities are more important than DC, such as SF and LA. DC is the capital.

I said that NY is the de facto capital of America. It is.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

Miami, for instance, houses 2 million Latin Americans or so? Latin America itself houses 600 million of them, including 6 megacities.

Also, the most populous and important Spanish speaking country in Latin America has barely any presence in Miami.

[north 42]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Buffalo is definitely America's Gateway to Canada
"Hey Stan, you want a Molsons or Labatts?"
"Pick me up a Large double-double!"

I’d say that honour goes to Detroit actually, as it sits further into the American heartland than Buffalo.

[hipster duck]

One of the reasons America is so successful is because it doesn't have a "heartland". Countries with a heartland tend to have large swathes of the country that lie outside that heartland, which are economic basket cases and who feel that they don't belong.

Instead, the US is made up of a collection of large, culturally-distinct regions that are economically diverse and self-sufficient. Each of these have cities that are at their heart, and these are all very major places. If the US had a heartland, there would be one gigantic city at the centre of it all, and then a bunch of provincial mid-sized cities everywhere else.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

One of the reasons America is so successful is because it doesn't have a "heartland"..

well, the term "heartland" is used by some to describe a broad interior region of the US.

here's what wikipedia says:

Heartland (United States)

The heartland, when referring to a cultural region of the United States, is the central land area of the U.S.,[1] usually the Midwestern United States[2] or the states that do not border the Atlantic or Pacific oceans,[3] associated with mainstream or traditional values, such as economic self-sufficiency, conservative political and religious ideals, and rootedness in agrarian life.[2]

The US Census Bureau defines the Midwest as consisting of 12 states: Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, and Wisconsin. Portions of other non-coastal states can be included in the region as well. These may include eastern portions of the Mountain States (Colorado, Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming) and northern portions of some Southern states, such as Arkansas, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Tennessee, and West Virginia.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartland_(United_States)


however, in my experience, the term comes with so much agrarian/conservative baggage, that many people who live in medium to large size cities in the interior (a majority) tend not to identify with the term much, if at all.

i've lived in chicagoland my entire life, and I am 100% a midwesterner, but in no way would i ever consider myself a "heartlander" or "from the heartland".

it's kind of a stupid term. which is probably why an oil industry stooge like kotkin used it in the title of his "article".

[TexasPlaya]

I get the comparison between DFW and Chicago but not the heartland. DFW is the Chicago of the 21st century as much as I dislike southern Oklahoma.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

I get the comparison between DFW and Chicago but not the heartland. DFW is the Chicago of the 21st century as much as I dislike southern Oklahoma.

I guess you can say for both - I've heard that before. DFW compared to Chicago because of diversity of industry and Houston compared to Detroit because of high concentration of one industry. If one of the definitions of heartland is also conservative/religious values, I would think DFW is probably the capital of that compared to the other top 20 metros. I think Chicago used to be more conservative overall, but it is not now. Of course, all cities have pockets of those 'heartland' values.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Capital vs. capitol

We learned this in third grade. Big red “F” on the paper

+1

Bizarrely, even some Canadians get that wrong and there's no capitol anywhere in Canada.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by DetroitSky

When I think of the heartland I think of the Great Plains states - Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, the Dakotas, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas and Missouri. So that’d make Chicago the capital. I’ve never in my life heard that term and thought of Texas. It’s always seemed to be a word used to describe the Midwest - specifically the mainly agricultural, flat, prairie land states.

Isn't that the POV of a yankee (from the northeast) though? What we call things depends on where things are in relation to us. People in the US northeast called that region the 'Midwest' because to them it was 'west' even though it's in the eastern half of the US.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by DCReid

If one of the definitions of heartland is also conservative/religious values, I would think DFW is probably the capital of that compared to the other top 20 metros.

not that presidential voting is definitive when it comes to liberal/conservative, but it can still provide a window into these things.

and yes, the dallas MSA is towards the bottom.



Top 20 MSAs by Biden over Trump margin in 2020:

SF: +60.9
DC: +47.9
seattle: +38.1
boston: +37.0
LA: +35.7

chicago: +32.3
Philly: +30.0
NYC: +28.1
baltimore: +26.7
denver: +25.8

san diego: +23.3
minneapolis: +19.8
miami: +16.3
atlanta: +15.6
detroit: +13.7

riverside: +9.4
dallas: +1.1
houston: +1.1
phoenix: +0.6
tampa: -2.6

source: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...&postcount=432

Originally Posted by DCReid

I think Chicago used to be more conservative overall, but it is not now.

a generation ago the chicago burbs were A LOT more conservative (or at least more repuiblican), but the suburban blue shift over the past several cycles in chicago's collar counties has been quite dramatic.

Illinois itself hasn't voted for a republican president since George H.W. way back in 1988. and chicagoland is the ONLY reason that illinois now votes solidly blue for president.

[Manitopiaaa]

Originally Posted by ue

That's a very US-centric way of looking at a region that is not at all part of the US. You do realize Mexico City, Havana, Panama City, Bogota, Sao Paolo, Santiago, and Buenos Aires exist, right? This is like saying Buffalo is the capital of Canada because lots of Ontarians shop there, hockey is popular, and Tim Hortons is everywhere.

Also why is it so hard for people to realize "capitol" is not the same as capital?

Yeah, this is why I limited Miami to 'Capital of the Caribbean', which I feel is fairly uncontroversial as neither Havana, Panama City, San Juan, or Santo Domingo have anywhere close to the same economic/social/cultural pull across the region. Maybe Caracas could have made a good claim in another timeline, as it's very big and one mountain hop away from the Caribbean coast. But we all know how that experiment turned out.

[iheartthed]

If we're being honest, New York is the capital of the Caribbean and it's not even close. But I can see how people would make the argument for Miami as a runner-up.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by DCReid

I guess you can say for both - I've heard that before. DFW compared to Chicago because of diversity of industry and Houston compared to Detroit because of high concentration of one industry. If one of the definitions of heartland is also conservative/religious values, I would think DFW is probably the capital of that compared to the other top 20 metros. I think Chicago used to be more conservative overall, but it is not now. Of course, all cities have pockets of those 'heartland' values.

There’s a “New South” and maybe there’s a “New Heartland” as the US population continues its south/south western march. DFW is probably capitol of both