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  #921  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 5:28 AM
Sohcatoah Sohcatoah is offline
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Apologies, may be a question that has already been answered, but do we know when hypothetically the 606 extension would begin?
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  #922  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 1:46 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
Nope, nothing was spent by the city, it was developed privately. I suppose you could say straightening the z curve was sorta money spent by them...
how is $67 Million in city issued bonds not the city spending money?
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  #923  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 1:58 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
how is $67 Million in city issued bonds not the city spending money?
Reading that link, private landowners in LSE have a special real estate tax assessment to cover the bond issuance, so it looks like LSE is paying, not the City.
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  #924  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 3:04 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
Reading that link, private landowners in LSE have a special real estate tax assessment to cover the bond issuance, so it looks like LSE is paying, not the City.
Just because the city is using their credit and position as a municipality to push through a project doesn't mean they are paying for jack shit. You are correct, the city hasn't fronted a dime, what they did do is more or less co-sign for a loan taken out to build a park that will be maintained and paid back by the HOA. If that's not an appropriate use of government, I don't know what is.
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  #925  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 3:12 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
Just because the city is using their credit and position as a municipality to push through a project doesn't mean they are paying for jack shit. You are correct, the city hasn't fronted a dime, what they did do is more or less co-sign for a loan taken out to build a park that will be maintained and paid back by the HOA. If that's not an appropriate use of government, I don't know what is.
I don't think the City even did that. They simply issued bonds. The SSA is responsible for repaying them. I don't think the City is at risk at all.
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  #926  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 6:47 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
Reading that link, private landowners in LSE have a special real estate tax assessment to cover the bond issuance, so it looks like LSE is paying, not the City.
is this not effectively the same as a the Lincoln Yards TIF?
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  #927  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 6:52 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
is this not effectively the same as a the Lincoln Yards TIF?
Not really. A TIF is collecting taxes above the initial "value" and pooling/utilizing the excess "increment" for economic development. It sounds like the LSE area has instituted a special RE tax assessment above what the taxing bodies take to specifically pay for the improvements.
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  #928  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 6:54 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
is this not effectively the same as a the Lincoln Yards TIF?
Not really. A TIF is collecting taxes above the initial "value" and pooling/utilizing it for economic development. The taxing bodies in a TIF will not receive any additional taxes beyond the baseline until the TIF expires.

It sounds like the LSE area has instituted a special RE tax assessment above what the taxing bodies take to specifically pay for the improvements.
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  #929  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 6:57 PM
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Exactly, a TIF is effectively a backdoor property tax boost on all the residents of the city who don't live in the TIF district. The city decides on the total amount of tax revenue they want to collect, and works backwards to figure out tax rates and assessed values... but if the properties in the TIF district are sending part of their taxes to the district, then everyone else in the city has to pay more to cover the shortfall.

The lakeshore east structure is different, residents of LSE pay their normal property taxes and then pay a little more on top of that to cover the park and other neighborhood services.
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  #930  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 6:58 PM
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A LSE TIF would have frozen the tax collections at what the railroad was paying back in the 1970s, and steered all the area's property tax increase since then into paying back the bondholders for building the needed infrastructure.

Instead, all the increase over LSE's taxation proceeds when it was railroad land has gone to benefit the public. The new residents paid for the streets and pipes they needed (as part of their purchase price) and also pay extra property tax to pay off the bonds on the park.
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  #931  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2019, 5:42 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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all very interesting. kind of makes me wonder why the developers of LSE didn't get a TIF district.
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  #932  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2019, 8:24 PM
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^Pretty hard to make the case that it was blighted.
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  #933  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2019, 11:47 PM
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^Pretty hard to make the case that it was blighted.
True, underdeveloped =/= blighted
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  #934  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2019, 2:16 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
^Pretty hard to make the case that it was blighted.
was not LSE an old rail yard? like the 78 thing? or am I thinking of something else?

also the LSE developers are on the hook for a new public elementary school right? are the developers doing that out of the goodness of their hearts or what did they get in return?
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  #935  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2019, 3:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
was not LSE an old rail yard? like the 78 thing? or am I thinking of something else?

also the LSE developers are on the hook for a new public elementary school right? are the developers doing that out of the goodness of their hearts or what did they get in return?
It went from an old railyard with a few towers scattered about over the decades to a 9 hole golf course I believe before the official LSE proposals came into the fold in the late 90s-early 00s.
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  #936  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2019, 3:37 PM
PKDickman PKDickman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
was not LSE an old rail yard? like the 78 thing? or am I thinking of something else?

also the LSE developers are on the hook for a new public elementary school right? are the developers doing that out of the goodness of their hearts or what did they get in return?
TIFs didn't exist when LSE started. The TIF Act was only passed in'77 around the time the LSE PD was passed.

Chicago's first TIF, the North Loop TIF didn't come til ten years later
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  #937  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2019, 1:17 AM
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^ Illinois Center was developed in the 70s, and a handful of residential towers along Randolph, but LSE (the Magellan mega-development) only began in the early 2000s.

They certainly could have asked for a TIF, but the previous high rises in the area would ruin the hypothetical “but-for” test.
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  #938  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2019, 11:15 PM
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With regards to LSE/New Eastside TIFs - I don't even recall Magellan ever talking about going to the city for TIF funding. . . separately with regards to the public school (I think someone mentioned it recently) I don't think they're on the hook for that. . . from what I recall the ball was in the Chicago Public School's court to decide if a school in the area was even warranted. . . seems like GEMs has - to some extent - fulfilled the need for a school in the neighborhood. . .

. . .
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  #939  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 5:15 PM
PKDickman PKDickman is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
^ Illinois Center was developed in the 70s, and a handful of residential towers along Randolph, but LSE (the Magellan mega-development) only began in the early 2000s.
But they would have been bound by the original PD. If it specified them doing it on their own dime, that would still be enforced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
They certainly could have asked for a TIF, but the previous high rises in the area would ruin the hypothetical “but-for” test.
This is the problem. Developers aren't supposed to ask for a TIF, they are supposed to ask for money from an existing TIF.
The notion that developers could use their own tax payments as financing didn't occur to anyone until 2008 when they created the Weed/Freemont TIF to fund Grossinger Auto.
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  #940  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 5:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago View Post
With regards to LSE/New Eastside TIFs - I don't even recall Magellan ever talking about going to the city for TIF funding. . . separately with regards to the public school (I think someone mentioned it recently) I don't think they're on the hook for that. . . from what I recall the ball was in the Chicago Public School's court to decide if a school in the area was even warranted. . . seems like GEMs has - to some extent - fulfilled the need for a school in the neighborhood. . .

. . .
IIRC, Magellan would still be on the hook for building the new school... but Magellan and Ald. Reilly had indicated that CPS didn't have the budget to staff and operate it.

That always seemed like a too-convenient excuse to me, they were able to double the size of South Loop Elementary.

Of course, if no school gets built, then families with school-age children are probably gonna avoid LSE and go to other areas where schools are more convenient - even though LSE with its ample open space would seem to be ideal for kids vs. a more concrete jungle environment.
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