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  #14341  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 2:10 PM
orulz orulz is offline
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Elon Musk's companies approach "traditional" problems from a "tech" standpoint. That is: they bring agile, iterative development with continuous integration, and corresponding organizational structures, to both car and rocket manufacturing.

Both of these industries are traditionally quite slow-moving, heavily laden with bureaucratic processes, management overhead, complicated supply chains with too many hands in the pot (some of which are there for the sole purpose of collecting rent.) Basically, there was plenty of fat to cut by rethinking things from the ground up.

The process wasn't smooth at all in either case, and in Tesla's case it's not even certain at all that it will pan out in the end - but at least in the case of SpaceX, the end result is much leaner than the incumbents and (arguably) more capable too.

Tunnel and transit construction in the US is nothing if not loaded down with bureaucracy and grift. If he can shake up the industry like he did with rockets, even if much of the technology he proposes doesn't pan out, then we all win anyway.
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  #14342  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 2:11 PM
Jim in Chicago Jim in Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Yes, I agree that Block 37 poses challenges. The station cavern is only at the level of the Red/Blue Line tracks (Level -2) and it lies on an angle, so Musk will probably need to dig deeper. Based on his earlier promotional videos, he might put in elevators that bring the cars from the existing cavern down to the new tunnel level, and back up... but there will still need to be a giant pit dug inside of an existing basement, and the Blue Line tunnel will probably need to be underpinned.
I would imagine that the ORD end will also present challenges. Those two together could soak up a lot of $$ especially with the city having control over both.
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  #14343  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 2:22 PM
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=jmecklenborg;8225726
There is no new tunneling technology. The Boring Company has yet to build its own machine -- it simply bought an old one from LA and leased another one. There are many companies around the world digging tunnels with a purpose. Musk is hobbyist and a huckster.
Maybe no new tunneling technology, but you are assuming there is nothing new to discover in energy storage technology, that we've reached the pinnacle of knowledge, and that a large scale project will yield nothing new, so ill restate my post..

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jpIllInoIs...Bully for Chicago for being at the forefront with the practical commercial uses for battery technology. By implementing the ChiOrdIing tunnel the parties are putting high level research into high level applications. And if Musk want to use Chicago as a laboratory great.
As TUP mentioned, maybe Chicago can get a permanent Boring R&D presence here. Certainly the institutional ecoshphere already exists. Chicago is home to the Argonne Joint Center for Energy Storage which is run jointly by The University of Chicago and the Dept of Energy.
The mission is to research and facilitate the creation of new energy storage capabilities for transportation, utility grid and buildings. I see a synergy..
(btw-good thing those small thinkers weren't involved with the Panama Canal or the Continental railroad.
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  #14344  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 2:27 PM
OhioGuy OhioGuy is offline
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Could Gary’s airport be getting regularly scheduled commercial service in the next year or two? It’s mentioned as a location for a potential new airline from the man who created JetBlue.

JetBlue’s Founder May Start A New US Airline

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The business model would revolve around offering point-to-point service between smaller, secondary airports like New York City’s regional Stewart Airport (SWF), Los Angeles’s Hollywood Burbank Airport (BUR) and Chicago’s Gary/Chicago International Airport (GYY). However, unlike ultra-low-cost carriers like Allegiant and Spirit which already focus on selling point-to-point flights, Moxy would offer the superior service passengers have gotten accustomed to with JetBlue — think generous legroom and free Wi-Fi.
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  #14345  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 2:34 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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^ There is no need for Gary airport. Sounds like a big fail.
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  #14346  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 3:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
^ There is no need for Gary airport. Sounds like a big fail.
Spot on.. Draw a radius around Gary Airport. The closer you get the less affluent, mobile and likely the residents are to fly. Conversely the farther away the more you overlap with areas that are near Midway or Chi Downtown. Look at any demographic map on this board and the development is Downtown or on the Orange and Blue lines, with the exception of Hyde Park, Combined with the lower auto ownership and the abundance of destination and departure choices offered MDW and ORD and the expansion of ORD it just doesn't look good for GRY, and that radius holds true in all directions. Is Gary going to draw consumers from the South Bend market, or Indy. no way. Also Chicago collar county growth is heavily skewed to SW Will county which will default to MDW. And Lake County IL already uses Milw Mitchell as an alternate.
Finally the very discussion we are having on the Ohare express just points out how far GRY has to go to get any kind of transit access... MDW has the orange line and a huge bus transit connection, Ohare has the blue line and the NCS Metra and a bus system and remote parking people mover, and Milw has an Amtrak station that resident of the North Shore and Chicago can access 10 rides a day each way.
Gary airport future is as a cargo airport, they have already acknowledged that. Any pax airline service will be heavily subsidized.
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  #14347  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 3:02 PM
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With a 21st century rail link (HSR not just the old SSL), Gary could be a be successful functioning as a relief airport for the metro. Not sure why this isn't obvious to everyone.
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  #14348  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 3:05 PM
cmmcnam2 cmmcnam2 is offline
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Gary airport is very close to South Shore Line, if the airport can get flights it shouldn't be a big deal route it to the airport or run buses. The Region has almost 1,000,000 people, it's not the most affluent but certainly some flights can be run there. It may even be easier for people from South Shore than hiking out to Midway.
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  #14349  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 3:09 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Gary will not be a player in passenger traffic. Guaranteed to fail. It has many times already. No reason to think anything has changed.
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  #14350  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 3:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
With a 21st century rail link (HSR not just the old SSL), Gary could be a be successful functioning as a relief airport for the metro. Not sure why this isn't obvious to everyone.
Obvious it is..30 years down the road! Before that the Chicago-Mitchell rail will have 20+ round trips a day. ChiOrdIng or some other super express will happen at ORD. MDW maybe home to vertical lift off planes. All of this is Possible, same as hsr to GRY.
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  #14351  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 3:33 PM
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^I don't get this. If there is enough demand to, at least on paper, build a third airport in the south suburbs than if you removed political motivation, a pure hypothetical would show Gary is the most logical third airport even if it's in Indiana.
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  #14352  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 3:54 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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^ there is no demand. That's the thing.
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  #14353  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 4:05 PM
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But if there are no gates at ORD or MDW, what else can a discount startup do? Using forgotten and even distant airports has proven a successful model for many European and Asian low-cost carriers.
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  #14354  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 4:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
But if there are no gates at ORD or MDW, what else can a discount startup do? Using forgotten and even distant airports has proven a successful model for many European and Asian low-cost carriers.
I dont fault them for trying. Delta is expanding in Milw. SWA has a nice offering in Milw as does Frontier. I just think that the current demand (hsr not withstanding) will require annual public subsidy . So go for it. But they are going after a geographic base which has limited potential. About 25% of MKE is from Illinois. I just dont thin that GRY will have the base.
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  #14355  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 4:46 PM
Jim in Chicago Jim in Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
Gary will not be a player in passenger traffic. Guaranteed to fail. It has many times already. No reason to think anything has changed.
Allegient is making a go of it out of South Bend, of all places - flights to Florida, Phoenix and Vegas. They also fly out of Rockford. Gary just hasn't ever worked for anyone who's tried. And for an example of what happens when the airlines just say "no" you need look no further than Peotone or that one down by St. Louis I can't even remember the name of.
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  #14356  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 4:52 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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^ seems like Gary and South Bend would just cannibalize each other. I could care less if they try. I'm just predicting it will fail.
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  #14357  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 4:58 PM
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regardless of what may or may not ever happen at gary, i'm just glad that no one seems to be seriously talking about peotone anymore.
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  #14358  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 5:14 PM
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Gary just needs a better train connection and it can be a good low cost carrier airport. Turn Midway into more of a premium domestic business travel airport, like LGA, given its proximity to the Loop. Having the likes of Southwest fly out of there is a waste.
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  #14359  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 5:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Turn Midway into more of a premium domestic business travel airport, like LGA, given its proximity to the Loop.
i doubt that would ever happen.

roughly 95% of all MDW flights are southwest.

for all intents and purposes, MDW is a "southwest airport", like DAL & HOU.

it's one of the most single-carrier-dominated major airports in the entire country.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Jun 19, 2018 at 5:39 PM.
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  #14360  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 5:34 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Isn't Midway SWs largest hub too?
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