Lamenting the decline of the car

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[McKellarDweller]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

What nobody talks about.... How annoying it is to park these days in just a parking lot, with every second vehicle being an oversized pickup. Feel like they need airline wing walkers in any parking lot older than 15 years old to squeeze my compact in.

Late reply, but yeah.. it's always annoyed me, but now that I have a little human in a car seat and have to open the door even just half way, parking lots in Calgary are a pain in the ass every single time.

There is no end to the costs full-size pickup drivers impose on pedestrians and other motorists. I truly hope we are in a dark age of motor vehicles I can look back on in a few decades.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by McKellarDweller

Late reply, but yeah.. it's always annoyed me, but now that I have a little human in a car seat and have to open the door even just half way, parking lots in Calgary are a pain in the ass every single time.

There is no end to the costs full-size pickup drivers impose on pedestrians and other motorists. I truly hope we are in a dark age of motor vehicles I can look back on in a few decades.

Have you seen the size of future cars including BEVs coming to the market? We’re just getting started.

[ssiguy]

Actually there is some great news on the car front................they maybe making a bit of a comeback.

Car sales {ie sedans, hatchbacks, convertibles etc} in the first quarter of 2023 represented 21.4% of the auto market compared to 19.6% in the first quarter of 2021. Doesn't seem like much but this turn around represents the first time since 2002, when SUVs really started to sell, that cars have had an increase in their percentage of the auto market. They attribute this change in direction on account of 3 major factors:

1} Cost. SUVs are always more expensive to purchase than a similar sized car. The price of autos has gone thru the roof and when combined with much higher interest rates and overall inflation taking a bigger hit to everyone's wallet, cars are seen as a more affordable alternative to the SUV.

2} Demographics. Our population is aging and the older people get, the less likely they are to buy, or want to drive, an SUV but rather prefer the comforts and drivability of cars.

3} Generational changes. Widescale sales of SUVs started about 20 years ago and 20 years is usually when consumer preferences start to change and especially in large commodity and identity purchases like autos. This is because younger generations have probably been raised on their parents SUV and, as with all things related to young people, they don't want to look like their parents. We saw this exact same thing happen twice before. First it was station wagons from the early 60s to early 80s when young families made the switch to Minivans and then 20 years later when young people started to make the switch from Minivans to SUVs.

Most observers see this trend continuing and though most do not foresee a time when cars make up up more than 30% of the market at most, it does seem like cars are coming back into style. This also exemplifies how short sighted our the Big 3 have been. They have all put their eggs into the SUV/truck basket and each only offer one type of car........Ford Mustang, GM Malibu, and Dodge charger and, along with the huge expense of electrification and Telsa, this maybe the nail in their coffin.

[Innsertnamehere]

https://www.greencarreports.com/news...os-price-range

Volvo EX30 starts at $35,000 USD, gets 440km range.

If they convert the price to CAD more or less 1-1, this will be ~$45k post rebate.

Decent, especially with the features list. We'll have to see where the pricing lands.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Actually there is some great news on the car front................they maybe making a bit of a comeback.

Car sales {ie sedans, hatchbacks, convertibles etc} in the first quarter of 2023 represented 21.4% of the auto market compared to 19.6% in the first quarter of 2021. Doesn't seem like much but this turn around represents the first time since 2002, when SUVs really started to sell, that cars have had an increase in their percentage of the auto market. They attribute this change in direction on account of 3 major factors:

1} Cost. SUVs are always more expensive to purchase than a similar sized car. The price of autos has gone thru the roof and when combined with much higher interest rates and overall inflation taking a bigger hit to everyone's wallet, cars are seen as a more affordable alternative to the SUV.

2} Demographics. Our population is aging and the older people get, the less likely they are to buy, or want to drive, an SUV but rather prefer the comforts and drivability of cars.

3} Generational changes. Widescale sales of SUVs started about 20 years ago and 20 years is usually when consumer preferences start to change and especially in large commodity and identity purchases like autos. This is because younger generations have probably been raised on their parents SUV and, as with all things related to young people, they don't want to look like their parents. We saw this exact same thing happen twice before. First it was station wagons from the early 60s to early 80s when young families made the switch to Minivans and then 20 years later when young people started to make the switch from Minivans to SUVs.

Most observers see this trend continuing and though most do not foresee a time when cars make up up more than 30% of the market at most, it does seem like cars are coming back into style. This also exemplifies how short sighted our the Big 3 have been. They have all put their eggs into the SUV/truck basket and each only offer one type of car........Ford Mustang, GM Malibu, and Dodge charger and, along with the huge expense of electrification and Telsa, this maybe the nail in their coffin.

I'm not sure that's the case when companies like VW are phasing out the Golf in N.A. because and will I quote a salesman here 'North Americans want bigger vehicles with AWD and do not see how Golfs can meet their needs'.

I just about lost my shit with him and how manufacturers are force-feeding 'the need' to have an SUV down our collective throats.

The crazier thing for me, especially out west, is how many folks have large pickups that cost 90-100k and yet rarely use them as intended; I guess each to their own and all that stuff, but man, what a ridiculous world, size of vehicles and negative impact to our urban form/realm.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

I'm not sure that's the case when companies like VW are phasing out the Golf in N.A. because and will I quote a salesman here 'North Americans want bigger vehicles with AWD and do not see how Golfs can meet their needs'.

I just about lost my shit with him and how manufacturers are force-feeding 'the need' to have an SUV down our collective throats.

The crazier thing for me, especially out west, is how many folks have large pickups that cost 90-100k and yet rarely use them as intended; I guess each to their own and all that stuff, but man, what a ridiculous world, size of vehicles and negative impact to our urban form/realm.

No one is force feeding anyone anything. It's effective marketing persuading people that they need to have a huge vehicle. If you are a woman, you need the large 3 row SUV for the kids, for your family lifestyle, etc. If you are a man, you need the huge pickup because that is what Real Men drive.

People fell for it and regular car sales have plummeted. That's great if you are a manufacturer who reaps the higher profit margins on all that metal, but pretty lousy if you are the typical consumer who now has to deal with 9% interest on a $75,000 Silverado 1500 when realistically, a Nissan Sentra would have been totally fine to meet the needs of your lifestyle.

[urbandreamer]

In Ottawa & Eastern Ontario I noticed people still tend to drive smaller cheaper cars and sedans, with older pick-up trucks and SUVS still on the road. I doubt I'll spend more than $25k on a car, ever. The base Mazda3 is probably the most luxurious car I'd consider.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

https://www.greencarreports.com/news...os-price-range

Volvo EX30 starts at $35,000 USD, gets 440km range.

If they convert the price to CAD more or less 1-1, this will be ~$45k post rebate.

Decent, especially with the features list. We'll have to see where the pricing lands.

I was wrong. Surprised how small it is - basically a Mini Clubman.

[thurmas]

https://canadianautodealer.ca/2023/0...to-disappoint/


New-vehicle sales in Canada improved in both March and the full first quarter of 2023, relative to the same periods a year ago. But those improvements were marginal and they continue to disappoint, failing to signal any imminent upturn in the stagnant market.

March sales of about 146,000 vehicles by reporting automakers were up just 3.7% from last year, as estimated by DesRosiers Automotive Consultants (DAC). They were also down from the modest gains of the prior two months, which were 7.5% and 5.7%, respectively.

The SAAR (Seasonally Adjusted Annualized Sales Rate) for March was just 1.59 million, according to DAC — a steady drop from January’s 1.79-million figure, which was the high-point for the past year.

On a quarterly basis, reported sales of 345,439 new units in Q1 2023 were up just 5.2% from last year’s dismal figures, but down 8.8% from the same period in 2021 — and fully 16.0% below 2019’s pre-pandemic level.

As Andrew King, Managing Partner at DAC observed, “there is a decided lack of momentum.”

GM to the fore
Despite those concerning overall figures, some automakers had a highly positive quarter.

General Motors claimed the top-seller spot for Q1, with sales of 61,093 vehicles, an increase of 25.8% from the same period a year ago. That improvement gave GM a 3.3% bump in market share, year-over year, up to 17.7% — the greatest improvement in both numbers and share in the industry.

Ford came second for the quarter with 46,962 vehicles sold, well behind GM, but 9.1% up from a year ago and ahead of the market average. As a result, Ford’s market share improved by 0.6% to 13.6%.


FCA Stellantis ranked third for Q1 with 40,073 vehicles sold. That total was down by 5.9% from last year however, cutting market share by 1.3% to 11.6%.

Fourth place went to Toyota, which sold 37,304 new units, an increase of 5.0%, improving market share by 0.1% to 10.8%. On a group basis, Toyota/Lexus also ranked fourth, behind GM, Ford, and Hyundai/Kia/Genesis combined, but ahead of FCA/Stellantis.

Korean brands show strength
The Hyundai brand alone claimed fifth place with 25,689 sales, a decline of 3.8% from 2022 that trimmed market share by 0.7% to 7.4%.

Kia leap-frogged both Nissan and Honda to claim sixth place in the rankings with 20,499 Q1 sales, a 38.1% gain that improved Kia’s market share by 1.4% to 5.9% — a share increase second only to GM.

Though passed by Kia, Nissan maintained its familiar seventh-place ranking, with 18,842 sold, down 8.3%. That decline cost Nissan 0.7% of market share, reducing it to 5.5%.

Keeping Nissan in seventh, Honda fell two places in the rankings, down to eighth, with a dramatic 25.8% Q1 sales decline to just 16,199 units. That shortfall cut Honda’s market share by 1.9% to 4.7% — the greatest share decline in the industry.

In a tight race for ninth place, Mazda edged out Volkswagen to claim the spot with 11,326 vehicles sold. That total was down 12.3% from last year, however, resulting in a 0.6% share decline to 3.3%.

Volkswagen was right behind in tenth with a 17.1% sales increase to 11,007 units, raising VW’s market share 0.4% to 3.2%.

Subaru and Mercedes-Benz maintained their usual 11th and 12th rankings, with sales down 1.3% and 10.9% respectively.

It is also worth noting that Lexus surpassed both BMW and Audi for second position in the luxury vehicle ranks with an impressive 42.3% Q1 sales increase.

In addition, Mitsubishi jumped past all three with an 11.5% sales gain to claim 13th overall in the rankings.

It’s a volatile market!

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by thurmas

https://canadianautodealer.ca/2023/0...to-disappoint/


New-vehicle sales in Canada improved in both March and the full first quarter of 2023, relative to the same periods a year ago. But those improvements were marginal and they continue to disappoint, failing to signal any imminent upturn in the stagnant market.

March sales of about 146,000 vehicles by reporting automakers were up just 3.7% from last year, as estimated by DesRosiers Automotive Consultants (DAC). They were also down from the modest gains of the prior two months, which were 7.5% and 5.7%, respectively.

The SAAR (Seasonally Adjusted Annualized Sales Rate) for March was just 1.59 million, according to DAC — a steady drop from January’s 1.79-million figure, which was the high-point for the past year.

On a quarterly basis, reported sales of 345,439 new units in Q1 2023 were up just 5.2% from last year’s dismal figures, but down 8.8% from the same period in 2021 — and fully 16.0% below 2019’s pre-pandemic level.

As Andrew King, Managing Partner at DAC observed, “there is a decided lack of momentum.”

GM to the fore
Despite those concerning overall figures, some automakers had a highly positive quarter.

General Motors claimed the top-seller spot for Q1, with sales of 61,093 vehicles, an increase of 25.8% from the same period a year ago. That improvement gave GM a 3.3% bump in market share, year-over year, up to 17.7% — the greatest improvement in both numbers and share in the industry.

Ford came second for the quarter with 46,962 vehicles sold, well behind GM, but 9.1% up from a year ago and ahead of the market average. As a result, Ford’s market share improved by 0.6% to 13.6%.


FCA Stellantis ranked third for Q1 with 40,073 vehicles sold. That total was down by 5.9% from last year however, cutting market share by 1.3% to 11.6%.

Fourth place went to Toyota, which sold 37,304 new units, an increase of 5.0%, improving market share by 0.1% to 10.8%. On a group basis, Toyota/Lexus also ranked fourth, behind GM, Ford, and Hyundai/Kia/Genesis combined, but ahead of FCA/Stellantis.

Korean brands show strength
The Hyundai brand alone claimed fifth place with 25,689 sales, a decline of 3.8% from 2022 that trimmed market share by 0.7% to 7.4%.

Kia leap-frogged both Nissan and Honda to claim sixth place in the rankings with 20,499 Q1 sales, a 38.1% gain that improved Kia’s market share by 1.4% to 5.9% — a share increase second only to GM.

Though passed by Kia, Nissan maintained its familiar seventh-place ranking, with 18,842 sold, down 8.3%. That decline cost Nissan 0.7% of market share, reducing it to 5.5%.

Keeping Nissan in seventh, Honda fell two places in the rankings, down to eighth, with a dramatic 25.8% Q1 sales decline to just 16,199 units. That shortfall cut Honda’s market share by 1.9% to 4.7% — the greatest share decline in the industry.

In a tight race for ninth place, Mazda edged out Volkswagen to claim the spot with 11,326 vehicles sold. That total was down 12.3% from last year, however, resulting in a 0.6% share decline to 3.3%.

Volkswagen was right behind in tenth with a 17.1% sales increase to 11,007 units, raising VW’s market share 0.4% to 3.2%.

Subaru and Mercedes-Benz maintained their usual 11th and 12th rankings, with sales down 1.3% and 10.9% respectively.

It is also worth noting that Lexus surpassed both BMW and Audi for second position in the luxury vehicle ranks with an impressive 42.3% Q1 sales increase.

In addition, Mitsubishi jumped past all three with an 11.5% sales gain to claim 13th overall in the rankings.

It’s a volatile market!

It's worth noting that this data comes from the dealerships and the automobile manufacturers association. Vehicles sold directly to customers, namely Tesla, do not appear on this list. In fact, it's very challenging to get Tesla sales numbers for Canada.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

I'm not sure that's the case when companies like VW are phasing out the Golf in N.A. because and will I quote a salesman here 'North Americans want bigger vehicles with AWD and do not see how Golfs can meet their needs'.

I just about lost my shit with him and how manufacturers are force-feeding 'the need' to have an SUV down our collective throats.

The crazier thing for me, especially out west, is how many folks have large pickups that cost 90-100k and yet rarely use them as intended; I guess each to their own and all that stuff, but man, what a ridiculous world, size of vehicles and negative impact to our urban form/realm.

It really is such bullshit. They don't provide options and then say that this what the consumer wants.

I would take a VWID3 in heartbeat. No negotiation. I'd pay full price. It has the space and range that my family needs. But they don't make that an option because they insist on selling SUVs.

The AWD is a particularly ridiculous excuses with BEVs where it's very easy to add a second motor and AWD functionality.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by theman23

I was wrong. Surprised how small it is - basically a Mini Clubman.

US pricing to be fair is significantly below European pricing - likely because it won't qualify for US EV rebates and needs to compete. Cars are also usually more expensive in the EU in general, as well, compared to NA...

I wouldn't be surprised to see Canadian pricing a bit higher as a result, but we will have to see. US pricing at least is actually below where I expected it to be, and in my opinion, is possibly the best-value EV on the market right now for what you get in terms of vehicle features in that price range.. It's competing with the Hyundai Kona EV at that price range and you are getting a luxury vehicle..

Regardless, I'm strongly considering reserving one when it opens up for reservations in Canada.

Delivery isn't due till next summer, so still a year away minimum, as well.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

I'm not sure that's the case when companies like VW are phasing out the Golf in N.A. because and will I quote a salesman here 'North Americans want bigger vehicles with AWD and do not see how Golfs can meet their needs'.

I just about lost my shit with him and how manufacturers are force-feeding 'the need' to have an SUV down our collective throats.

The crazier thing for me, especially out west, is how many folks have large pickups that cost 90-100k and yet rarely use them as intended; I guess each to their own and all that stuff, but man, what a ridiculous world, size of vehicles and negative impact to our urban form/realm.

A typical VW move where they replace an excellent vehicle like the Golf with the POS Taos crossover.for North America.

[urbandreamer]

How about a Volvo EX30-sized electric car, with manual switches/dials/no power anything with basic cloth seats and hand cranked windows? I bet it could be done for MSRP $19,995. 500km range. Make it FWD, under 4 metres long (Micra is 150.5 inches = perfect.), basic FM radio, 3 USB C outlets, only option would be AC.

[SpongeG]

I always find it strange when you see a Dually driving around downtown Vancouver, like why? why do you need a truck that big in the city? living in a rural or farm area makes sense but downtown. They can never park properly either.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

How about a Volvo EX30-sized electric car, with manual switches/dials/no power anything with basic cloth seats and hand cranked windows? I bet it could be done for MSRP $19,995. 500km range. Make it FWD, under 4 metres long (Micra is 150.5 inches = perfect.), basic FM radio, 3 USB C outlets, only option would be AC.

Don't think a car with hand cranked windows is going to do too well these days. The manual switches/dials would probably add cost, and I don't think there's any real cost savings or advantage with FWD vs RWD in a BEV.

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I always find it strange when you see a Dually driving around downtown Vancouver, like why? why do you need a truck that big in the city? living in a rural or farm area makes sense but downtown. They can never park properly either.

Also make it difficult for everyone around them to keep sight lines. You're basically relying on pure luck to not get T-boned every time you pull out of a parking spot or make a turn onto a road with a large truck parked nearby.

[SpongeG]

I've been seeing a lot of Kia Minivans recently, the Carnival seems to sell well despite so many manufacturers dropping mini vans completely.
Also Kia is said to be looking at releasing a pickup truck.

2025 Kia Mid-Size Truck: What We Know About The Pickup For Global Markets, Except The USA
https://www.carscoops.com/2023/03/20...xcept-the-usa/

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I've been seeing a lot of Kia Minivans recently, the Carnival seems to sell well despite so many manufacturers dropping mini vans completely.
Also Kia is said to be looking at releasing a pickup truck.

2025 Kia Mid-Size Truck: What We Know About The Pickup For Global Markets, Except The USA
https://www.carscoops.com/2023/03/20...xcept-the-usa/

Considering that the KIA is nearly $5,000-$10,000 cheaper than a Chrysler Grand Caravan, Honda Odyssey, or Toyota Sienna - which all start at $45k+ - it's not a surprise.

I'm just actually more shocked that minivans are as expensive as they are for family haulers. The days of the $20-25k base model are long gone. I mean, they make a Honda CR-V look a much better deal if one doesn't need the third row.

[ssiguy]

GM has just announced that the Chevy Camaro is on the chopping block and won't last the year. I've always liked the Mustang and their retro style really works but the Camaro just looks like a Disco Mobile. I won't lose any sleep over it's demise.