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  #7841  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2023, 3:57 PM
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Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
When an arena funding plan leads to the collapse of the ownership group, it is evidence that just maybe a market failure exists that public funding could be considered to fill. See the difficulties of Vancouver and Montreal. Toronto was helped by a larger market and plenty of hidden public funding (land swaps, huge density transfers, and a good ol low interest loan iirc).
wasn't even aware the Canucks and Habs had issues. Might have been why Molson sold the Habs in the early 2000s (just to buy them-up again years later).

Side note, when and for how much were the Habs sold those two times?
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  #7842  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2023, 4:36 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
wasn't even aware the Canucks and Habs had issues. Might have been why Molson sold the Habs in the early 2000s (just to buy them-up again years later).

Side note, when and for how much were the Habs sold those two times?
I have info on all of those somewhere. Might take a few days though.

Anyways, the only private-private arena type scale venue in North America is the sphere in Las Vegas. We will see if the project does well enough to be considered a success. Watch Vici Properties financial reporting over the next 5 years to get an idea.

Even Madison Square Garden receives a 100% tax abatement, worth close to $50 million a year.
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  #7843  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2023, 4:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
I have info on all of those somewhere. Might take a few days though.

Anyways, the only private-private arena type scale venue in North America is the sphere in Las Vegas. We will see if the project does well enough to be considered a success. Watch Vici Properties financial reporting over the next 5 years to get an idea.

Even Madison Square Garden receives a 100% tax abatement, worth close to $50 million a year.
That would be great if you can get it, but no worries if it's too much trouble.

Would be interesting though to compare the Habs sale back then with the Sens sale in 2004 v. the upcoming sale.

EDIT: have it here:

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In 2001, the Molson brewery sold 80.1 percent of their shares of the Montreal Canadiens and the Molson centre to George Gillett for about $275 million.
Quote:
Gillett decided to take the offer of the Molson family a couple of days ago (2009). An estimated $550 million represents a great value and great profit for the American businessman.
I'm assuming this is the 80.1%, and not the full value.

Apparently, hat wasn't the first time Moslon bought, sold and re-bought the Habs:

Quote:
The Montreal Canadiens are once again tied to the Molson family. Since 1957, we can trace the ties between the Molsons and the Montreal Canadiens hockey club. That year, the famous Senator Hartland Molson and his brother Thomas bought the Montreal Canadiens and the Canadian Arena Company.

The senator has been seen on television for years in his seat, sitting and holding his cane, watching over just behind the Canadiens' bench.

In 1964, David, William and Peter Molson, who were cousins with the senator and his brother, bought the club for about $5 million.

The Molson brothers sold the club and the Canadian Arena Company in 1971 to the Bronfman family from Montreal for $15 million, and the Bronfman family sold the club to the Molson brewery this time, and only seven years later. The Molson family was once again tied to the club.
All quotes and info from this article:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ars-of-history

Melnyk in 2003 bough the Senators for $130 million, presumably broken down as $92 million for the club and $38 million for the arena and surrounding lands.

It's unclear if the estimated $1 Billion expected for the Senators is the full valuation, or if it represents 90%, excluding the 10% the Melnyk sisters will retain.

If Andlauer ends up buying the Senators, I'll be watching closely to see how much he'll get once he sells his 20% of the Canadiens. I'm assuming he owns 20% of the team, but not the arena.

Last edited by J.OT13; Jun 5, 2023 at 4:58 PM.
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  #7844  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2023, 9:53 PM
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  #7845  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2023, 11:41 PM
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There's an old Beaverton article where Edmonton offered to pay for Calgary's new arena so long as it was called the Eat Shit Calgary Arena. Least Smith can do is follow through.

Edit: https://www.thebeaverton.com/2017/09...calgary-place/

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Flames owner Ken King is said to love the name, as he fucking hates Calgary too.

Last edited by EpicPonyTime; Jun 6, 2023 at 1:32 AM. Reason: Found it
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  #7846  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2023, 11:54 PM
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^
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  #7847  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2023, 9:14 AM
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Edmonton mayor Amarjeet Sohi is asking for $185 million from the Province for upgrades to Commonwealth Stadium. Part of the thinking is that the money is there for Calgary, so Edmonton wants equal treatment. The stadium is getting close to 50 years old and could really use a refresh for going forward. The facility could also use upgrades to better handle large events, where it is too crowded for the washrooms, concourses and concessions. These are some of the items that have been talked about for upgrading, along with video boards, locker rooms, a midfield tunnel and perhaps the entrances. Some of the design work is already done as part of the bid the City put forth for the World Cup.

Edmonton is trying to attract more large events going forward. Hopefully the Elks start turning things around and can attract larger crowds. It probably wouldn't be anything close to capacity, but to get 35,000 for games in the next couple of years would be good. Alberta may be putting together a bid for the 2030 Commonwealth Games and if successful, that would be a good chance for the upgrades to happen. Here is a video that was put forth for the World Cup bid. Not a lot is different at field level, but it does show a midfield tunnel and a new video screen on the south side.

https://vimeo.com/751370637
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  #7848  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2023, 12:41 PM
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Interesting concept. Commonwealth is at a point where it can use some improvements. But why the midfield tunnel? All it does is remove prime midfield seats and diminish the clean lines of the grandstand for no real improvement in functionality.

At least it's small though, unlike that gaping hole built into the middle of the Tim Hortons Field stands.
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  #7849  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2023, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ned View Post
Edmonton mayor Amarjeet Sohi is asking for $185 million from the Province for upgrades to Commonwealth Stadium. Part of the thinking is that the money is there for Calgary, so Edmonton wants equal treatment. The stadium is getting close to 50 years old and could really use a refresh for going forward. The facility could also use upgrades to better handle large events, where it is too crowded for the washrooms, concourses and concessions. These are some of the items that have been talked about for upgrading, along with video boards, locker rooms, a midfield tunnel and perhaps the entrances. Some of the design work is already done as part of the bid the City put forth for the World Cup.

Edmonton is trying to attract more large events going forward. Hopefully the Elks start turning things around and can attract larger crowds. It probably wouldn't be anything close to capacity, but to get 35,000 for games in the next couple of years would be good. Alberta may be putting together a bid for the 2030 Commonwealth Games and if successful, that would be a good chance for the upgrades to happen. Here is a video that was put forth for the World Cup bid. Not a lot is different at field level, but it does show a midfield tunnel and a new video screen on the south side.

https://vimeo.com/751370637
Pretty reasonable ask. Far less than what Calgary's getting. Not a chance it will happen.
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  #7850  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2023, 12:49 PM
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Still nothing for McMahon? Wow
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  #7851  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2023, 1:39 PM
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Pretty reasonable ask. Far less than what Calgary's getting. Not a chance it will happen.
If it's not going to buy votes the UCP isn't interested.
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  #7852  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2023, 2:29 PM
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$185 million is enough to give a large, valuable asset like Commonwealth a makeover to keep it functional and useful well into the future. But that kind of money would be wasted on McMahon, which is basically a tear down at this point... throwing $185 million at McMahon would be like installing an elaborate backyard swimming pool for some ramshackle trailer home.
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  #7853  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2023, 3:18 PM
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Pretty reasonable ask. Far less than what Calgary's getting. Not a chance it will happen.
The money to Calgary is not going directly to the arena though.
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  #7854  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2023, 3:21 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
$185 million is enough to give a large, valuable asset like Commonwealth a makeover to keep it functional and useful well into the future. But that kind of money would be wasted on McMahon, which is basically a tear down at this point... throwing $185 million at McMahon would be like installing an elaborate backyard swimming pool for some ramshackle trailer home.
As part of the Olympics package, McMahon had a $85 million 2017 dollars renovation planned. Including concourse, and a mid-field opening.
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  #7855  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2023, 3:25 PM
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As part of the Olympics package, McMahon had a $85 million 2017 dollars renovation planned. Including concourse, and a mid-field opening.
Ah yes, the most critical new improvement!
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  #7856  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2023, 5:29 PM
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The money to Calgary is not going directly to the arena though.
They can spin it anyway they want. That expenditure is still necessary to build the arena. I mean, er, Event Centre.
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  #7857  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2023, 5:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
As part of the Olympics package, McMahon had a $85 million 2017 dollars renovation planned. Including concourse, and a mid-field opening.
Correct they gutted and rebuilt the cement stands in the 80s thats why the bones of mcmahon are in better shape than frank clair and Winnipeg stadium were in the 2000s
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  #7858  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2023, 6:24 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
$185 million is enough to give a large, valuable asset like Commonwealth a makeover to keep it functional and useful well into the future. But that kind of money would be wasted on McMahon, which is basically a tear down at this point... throwing $185 million at McMahon would be like installing an elaborate backyard swimming pool for some ramshackle trailer home.
Agreed, there used to be a saying in a place I once lived in the 80/90s. "They're living in the box the satellite dish came in."
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  #7859  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2023, 6:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Interesting concept. Commonwealth is at a point where it can use some improvements. But why the midfield tunnel? All it does is remove prime midfield seats and diminish the clean lines of the grandstand for no real improvement in functionality.

At least it's small though, unlike that gaping hole built into the middle of the Tim Hortons Field stands.
I believe behind the scenes space (such as locker rooms) would be created under the stands and the tunnel would service that. Here is an article detailing some of the proposed changes. It also mentions possible IT upgrades and loge seating. https://urbanaffairs.ca/loonies-and-...-commonwealth/

In addition, here is an article on the Edmonton mayor advocating for fair treatment compared to Calgary. https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/sohi-wan...rena-1.6371354
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  #7860  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2023, 6:47 PM
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If Commonwealth can get a party deck to replace the empty tarped end zone seats similar to the mosaic pilsner one would be good and some lodge seating.
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