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  #1621  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2024, 4:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jammer139 View Post
Province contributing to cost of building new interchange for EC Row in Windsor.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/winds...sion-1.7140140
That will extend the municipal freeway outside of city limit.
And Lauzon Parkway interchange? Is that with the 401?
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  #1622  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2024, 5:19 PM
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Isn't EC Row owned by the County anyway?
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  #1623  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2024, 7:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jammer139 View Post
Province contributing to cost of building new interchange for EC Row in Windsor.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/winds...sion-1.7140140
With [provincially promoted] industrial development along the eastern portion and the future linkages to the new bridge, there's a good case for provincial uploading.
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  #1624  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2024, 7:55 PM
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Bringing back the Highway 2 designation to E. C. Row Expressway and to a portion of Gardiner Expressway will be interesting.
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  #1625  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2024, 7:22 PM
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https://environmentaldefence.ca/2024...esponsibility/

Ignoring the highly inflammatory language in this, the Feds have apparently agreed to withdraw their requirement for a federal environmental assessment on the 413.

This means that the highway must now only proceed through the provinces much reduced environmental assessment process.
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  #1626  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2024, 2:18 AM
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I'm not a civil engineer but in my head I've always thought they should build a beltway around the GTA but only with interchanges at other 400 series highways and not surface streets to discourage using it as a commuter route.

On paper at least it should allow traffic to bypass the city and siphon traffic off the 401 while limiting urban sprawl and induced demand. Plus, fewer interchanges reduces the cost of the project.

Crazy idea?
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  #1627  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2024, 3:24 AM
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Originally Posted by sa230e View Post
I'm not a civil engineer but in my head I've always thought they should build a beltway around the GTA but only with interchanges at other 400 series highways and not surface streets to discourage using it as a commuter route.

On paper at least it should allow traffic to bypass the city and siphon traffic off the 401 while limiting urban sprawl and induced demand. Plus, fewer interchanges reduces the cost of the project.

Crazy idea?
Isn't that kinda what the express lanes on the 401 do? Other than the collector transfers, the only exits they have are at major freeway interchanges (or one offs like Hurontario Street).

At one point it was called the Toronto bypass. The 413 aims to bypass the 401's bypass (407). It's like Toronto got too big and now needs triple bypass surgery
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  #1628  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2024, 10:57 AM
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I kind of feel like the 413 was part of Ford's greenbelt strategy that he backed off of. It was planned to help urban sprawl not hinder it. I'll be surprised if it actually happens.
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  #1629  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2024, 1:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa230e View Post
I'm not a civil engineer but in my head I've always thought they should build a beltway around the GTA but only with interchanges at other 400 series highways and not surface streets to discourage using it as a commuter route.

On paper at least it should allow traffic to bypass the city and siphon traffic off the 401 while limiting urban sprawl and induced demand. Plus, fewer interchanges reduces the cost of the project.

Crazy idea?
It might have worked for the 407, but people would have screamed that the fancy new highway was inaccessible to them.

The amount of traffic through Toronto is probably low relative to the total volume on the 401 in the city. Either people are headed into/out of the city or are local commuters.
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  #1630  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2024, 3:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Djeffery View Post
I kind of feel like the 413 was part of Ford's greenbelt strategy that he backed off of. It was planned to help urban sprawl not hinder it. I'll be surprised if it actually happens.
There's some value in the 413 from a goods movement pov (I think that's always the card that the highway lobby can play - can't move goods point-to-point on rail), but I think it's limited to the arc from the 401/407 interchange to the 427. The last 8 km or so, from the 427 to the 400 would complete the 'bypass', but it's the most controversial since it slices through the ecologically sensitive and naturally scenic Humber ravine, it contains the most expensive parts (huge 1 km viaducts), and the demand proposition seems lower. How many trucks need to go from southwestern Ontario to the 400 north of King City? All of the designated employment zones are west of the Humber river.

The cost of a 52 km divided highway on the outskirts of the Toronto built up area will be astronomical. An infrastructure project that's this big has to have a long history and a need that everyone accepts is critical to avoiding a collapse elsewhere in the system. The Ontario Line, for example, was built off the a decades-old idea of a relief line that avoids capacity of the critical Yonge subway line from breaking down. The 413 is the highway equivalent of the Ontario Line in terms of cost and complexity, but it doesn't quite have the same pressing need.
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  #1631  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2024, 4:46 PM
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The highest traffic component of the highway is expected to be between the 400 and 427 as it allows vehicles to bypass the central part of the 401, which is the most consistently congested stretch of provincial highway in the province. Original planning had only that stretch being 6 lanes, with the remaining part of the highway as 4 lanes (this has since been revised for the entire highway to be 6 lanes).

It serves more than just trucks going from Barrie to Milton (of which there are actually quite a few), but also trucks going from anywhere along the 400 to basically anywhere west of the 427.

A vehicle going from the Honda Plant in Alliston to, say, Oakville today currently needs to go down the 400, across the 401 through central Toronto, down the 427, then across the QEW. With the 413, that trip will bypass the central 401 on the 413 and 427.

Network connections are more complex than just where the highway starts and ends.

If you read into the 413 highway justification reports, most travel time savings from the highway are expected to come from reduced arterial road congestion in Vaughan and Brampton, actually. The 413 will be a massive service to industrial areas in Bolton, Brampton, and Vaughan, which right now have insane amounts of trucks stuck on roads like Airport Road and Highway 50.
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  #1632  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2024, 4:55 PM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
The cost of a 52 km divided highway on the outskirts of the Toronto built up area will be astronomical. An infrastructure project that's this big has to have a long history and a need that everyone accepts is critical to avoiding a collapse elsewhere in the system. The Ontario Line, for example, was built off the a decades-old idea of a relief line that avoids capacity of the critical Yonge subway line from breaking down. The 413 is the highway equivalent of the Ontario Line in terms of cost and complexity, but it doesn't quite have the same pressing need.

I mean the province built 60km of extremely high-quality highway for the 407 East on the edge of the GTA not even 10 years ago. It cost them $4 billion at the time. Expensive, but far from astronomical, that's roughly half the cost of the Ontario Line.

MTO had originally planned the 413 to be built in the ~2030 timeline, not now, as it was indeed seen as a "further range" need. Dougs politics has moved it's priority up however after the Liberals dumped the entire project in 2017. Given how politics works, I don't think the highway will ever get built if it doesn't happen under this government, so it's important for it to happen now for that very reason.
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  #1633  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2024, 8:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
The highest traffic component of the highway is expected to be between the 400 and 427 as it allows vehicles to bypass the central part of the 401, which is the most consistently congested stretch of provincial highway in the province. Original planning had only that stretch being 6 lanes, with the remaining part of the highway as 4 lanes (this has since been revised for the entire highway to be 6 lanes).

It serves more than just trucks going from Barrie to Milton (of which there are actually quite a few), but also trucks going from anywhere along the 400 to basically anywhere west of the 427.

A vehicle going from the Honda Plant in Alliston to, say, Oakville today currently needs to go down the 400, across the 401 through central Toronto, down the 427, then across the QEW. With the 413, that trip will bypass the central 401 on the 413 and 427.

Network connections are more complex than just where the highway starts and ends.

If you read into the 413 highway justification reports, most travel time savings from the highway are expected to come from reduced arterial road congestion in Vaughan and Brampton, actually. The 413 will be a massive service to industrial areas in Bolton, Brampton, and Vaughan, which right now have insane amounts of trucks stuck on roads like Airport Road and Highway 50.
I used to be more familiar with regional planning from an employment lands/goods movement pov so my knowledge is a bit out of date, but these general trends persist:

Almost all of the growth in "logistics heavy" employment and employment lands - warehouse/fulfillment centres, vehicle assembly and parts, etc. - has been on the western edge of the GTA, specifically in Brampton, Milton, Bolton, northern Mississauga, western Vaughan near the 427, etc. There hasn't been much growth in these kinds of industries/employment in northern and eastern York region, or to the east (Durham), or in Simcoe and points north for that matter. There's growth, of course, but not relative to what's been happening on the west side.

I'm sure there's quite a bit of demand for private cars to bypass the 401 between the 400 and 427, but (a) I don't think we should be prioritizing new highway builds to accommodate single occupancy vehicle travel, and, (b) there's always the 407 for that stuff. It's expensive, but it's there.

I am not one of those people who is reflexively anti-highway, but I think new highways should primarily be oriented around goods movement, and the next priority should be to build a highway to relieve an over-capacity surface road, particularly one with no alternatives. So I'm pro the Bradford Bypass even though it's not much of a goods mover, and I was pro the 401 widening through Milton from a goods movement perspective, but I'm only "agnostic" about the 413. If it goes ahead, that's okay, but I'll kind of lament the loss of the Humber river valley around Nasheville conservation area. If it doesn't go ahead, then, I'm not too bummed out.
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  #1634  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2024, 11:44 PM
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  #1635  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2024, 5:48 PM
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Interesting post on urban Toronto regarding the freeways/roads in the London area during the 2000s https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...12233/page-446
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  #1636  
Old Posted Today, 1:18 PM
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Cool drone video of Gordie Howe featuring concrete work

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  #1637  
Old Posted Today, 3:29 PM
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400 series highways getting 110kmh.


https://lfpress.com/news/provincial/...c-0ea717c5a59e
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