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Old Posted Jan 18, 2021, 9:11 AM
Westisbest Westisbest is offline
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St Johns - Image problem?

Provocative title I know, Long term follower of this forum but first ever post so be gentle .

I am 3 weeks out from moving to downtown St. Johns having been a regular visitor to the city over the last 5 years (herself is a local), Absolutely love the city and the people and very excited to get an opportunity to experience it as a resident in the coming months.

While this may be a bit naive and possibly has been addressed on the forum before I always wondered why St.Johns has never looked to put its overhead wiring and cables (particularly in the downtown core) underground, I love the old core especially the Jellybean style structures but I always feel the ugly overhead cables destroy the aesthetic look of the city. Being from Europe (from a smaller city myself) our councils began the movement of the majority of these lines some years ago with the result creating a major enhancements of the streetscapes. I know cost can always be the get out but I would have thought given the climate there it would be more beneficial to route these below ground to stave off storm damage etc.

I know more pressing things in the world and all but always wondered had there been plans to do this and if so why hasn't it been done? would love to see a bit more effort going into enhancing the urban core (outside of new developments). I've asked a couple of friends over there and got varying answers over the years but thought if anyone would know it would be you folk, thanks in advance!
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  #2  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2021, 1:09 PM
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Marty_Mcfly Marty_Mcfly is offline
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Originally Posted by Westisbest View Post
Provocative title I know, Long term follower of this forum but first ever post so be gentle .

I am 3 weeks out from moving to downtown St. Johns having been a regular visitor to the city over the last 5 years (herself is a local), Absolutely love the city and the people and very excited to get an opportunity to experience it as a resident in the coming months.

While this may be a bit naive and possibly has been addressed on the forum before I always wondered why St.Johns has never looked to put its overhead wiring and cables (particularly in the downtown core) underground, I love the old core especially the Jellybean style structures but I always feel the ugly overhead cables destroy the aesthetic look of the city. Being from Europe (from a smaller city myself) our councils began the movement of the majority of these lines some years ago with the result creating a major enhancements of the streetscapes. I know cost can always be the get out but I would have thought given the climate there it would be more beneficial to route these below ground to stave off storm damage etc.

I know more pressing things in the world and all but always wondered had there been plans to do this and if so why hasn't it been done? would love to see a bit more effort going into enhancing the urban core (outside of new developments). I've asked a couple of friends over there and got varying answers over the years but thought if anyone would know it would be you folk, thanks in advance!
I agree that the mess of overhead wires throughout the city (not just downtown) really does take away from some of the beauty. I'm fairly sure the common belief as to why it hasn't been done is to the cost of digging through the rock to route wires underground. Once you move downtown, go into your back yard and try and dig a hole in the ground, see how far you make it before you want to give up.

There are some neighbourhoods in the city where underground wires were utilized as a neighbourhood selling point. Virginia Park comes to mind as one.
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Old Posted Jan 18, 2021, 1:36 PM
Westisbest Westisbest is offline
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Thanks Marty, I know here they normally incorporated in with other services like broadband cabling, water etc but can only imagine how hard the the ground is there in places. Also agree its 100% not limited to the downtown (its fairly hideous everywhere in the metro area). I would have thought they could easily do it a bit by bit either stand alone or make developers include it as standard for all developments - lead from the top etc. Such a small thing would be night and day from an aesthetics perspective and lead to other benefits in the future from storm damage etc.
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Old Posted Jan 18, 2021, 2:54 PM
wmemeadusjr wmemeadusjr is offline
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Overhead wiring has always been a pet peeve of mine, especially in denser area like downtown. The more dense the area is, the more dense the wiring is, creating a horrible look. Water Street has had underground wiring for decades. It's time Duckworth and George Streets be considered, especially when the time comes to reconstruct the sidewalks and payment.
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  #5  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2021, 3:17 PM
Westisbest Westisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by wmemeadusjr View Post
Overhead wiring has always been a pet peeve of mine, especially in denser area like downtown. The more dense the area is, the more dense the wiring is, creating a horrible look. Water Street has had underground wiring for decades. It's time Duckworth and George Streets be considered, especially when the time comes to reconstruct the sidewalks and payment.
100% I think it completely detracts from some of the stunning streetscapes . Is there a formal way to submit this to the city council?
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Old Posted Jan 18, 2021, 3:30 PM
statbass statbass is offline
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Originally Posted by wmemeadusjr View Post
Overhead wiring has always been a pet peeve of mine, especially in denser area like downtown. The more dense the area is, the more dense the wiring is, creating a horrible look. Water Street has had underground wiring for decades. It's time Duckworth and George Streets be considered, especially when the time comes to reconstruct the sidewalks and payment.
I would venture to say its a combination of the infrastructure being there for many decades, and cost cutting measures from developers, utilities, etc. which leads into the fact that NL is pretty much rock with a little bit of backfill/soil on top. Given the amount of strong winds and storms we get here there could be a good business case to have underground wiring with potential long term benefits. I suspect the overhead costs would be expensive that's why it's rarely done. Even many of the newer subdivisions in the city still have overhead lines. On the flipside, water and sewer lines and placed underground so I can't see why power lines can't be either. I know nothing about construction code and maybe separate holes need to be dug for power lines. I'll defer to someone with more knowledge in this area.
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Old Posted Jan 18, 2021, 5:46 PM
Offshore1 Offshore1 is offline
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Originally Posted by statbass View Post
I would venture to say its a combination of the infrastructure being there for many decades, and cost cutting measures from developers, utilities, etc. which leads into the fact that NL is pretty much rock with a little bit of backfill/soil on top. Given the amount of strong winds and storms we get here there could be a good business case to have underground wiring with potential long term benefits. I suspect the overhead costs would be expensive that's why it's rarely done. Even many of the newer subdivisions in the city still have overhead lines. On the flipside, water and sewer lines and placed underground so I can't see why power lines can't be either. I know nothing about construction code and maybe separate holes need to be dug for power lines. I'll defer to someone with more knowledge in this area.
I agree it's probably a cost cutting measure (placing lines overhead).
You mention the 'overhead costs', by which I think you may mean the up front cost of underground utilities.
I would think that it would cost more, at least initially, and again agree on long term benefits - among those being less / no storm damage, no damage from traffic collisions (it's real) and would make snow clearing easier around narrow streets / sidewalks.
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  #8  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2021, 7:37 PM
statbass statbass is offline
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Originally Posted by Offshore1 View Post
I agree it's probably a cost cutting measure (placing lines overhead).
You mention the 'overhead costs', by which I think you may mean the up front cost of underground utilities.
I would think that it would cost more, at least initially, and again agree on long term benefits - among those being less / no storm damage, no damage from traffic collisions (it's real) and would make snow clearing easier around narrow streets / sidewalks.
My thoughts are along the same line as yours. The upfront cost (maybe a better term to use) to have underground lines would be very costly and I suspect this is a main driving force as to why it isn't done here.
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  #9  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2021, 11:01 AM
Westisbest Westisbest is offline
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Agree it most likely is the reason why it hasn't happened, would be great if underground cables were standard for any new developments going forward and the city council looked to include these as part of any utility upgrades in the future.
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