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  #721  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2024, 4:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
"We're finally on our own."


Perhaps my absolute favorite single line of lyrics of all time.

5 little words, but they said EVERYTHING.

Horrible tragedy; brilliant song.

Art can be weird like that
That's Neil Young for ya. What a great and brave artist, not afraid to take on the powerful folk and sensitive issues.

I love the way that Lynyrd Skynyrd felt it necessary to state his name, three times in three ways, in their rebuttal song (Sweet Home Alabama) to Young's great "Southern Man" and "Alabama" songs.

Well, I heard Mister Young sing about her
Well, I heard ol' Neil put her down
Well, I hope Neil Young will remember
A Southern man don't need him around anyhow


Neil Young reconciled with Lynyrd Skynyrd following the release of ‘Sweet Home Alabama’, and he took the track in good nature and with good humour, even saying: “They play like they mean it, I’m proud to have my name in a song like theirs.”
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  #722  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2024, 4:46 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by austlar1 View Post
1968 was such an eventful year. First LBJ announces he won't seek re-election. Next MLK is assassinated in Memphis. A few weeks later the student uprising at Columbia gets underway at the same time students are rioting elsewhere in the US and in Europe. In early June, RFK is gunned down in LA. Two months after RFK was killed, there were the bloody riots at the Democratic convention in Chicago. I felt like I had a front row seat to some very historic events
The Democratic convention returns to Chicago this year...
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  #723  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2024, 4:51 PM
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The Democratic convention returns to Chicago this year...
With a VERY different mayor than the one the city had back in '68......
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  #724  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2024, 5:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
With a VERY different mayor than the one the city had back in '68......
Yeah, not saying that the convention itself will turn into bloody chaos, but this year will probably be the most politically chaotic year we've seen since 1968.
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  #725  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2024, 5:13 PM
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Kent State made the news in 1970 (six years after Berkeley first blew up) because the Ohio National Guard opened fire on student anti-war protesters and killed four people on May 4, 1970. But it was not the only college where students were killed by authorities (South Carolina's Orangeburg campus in 1968 and UC Berkeley in 1969 come to mind).

The history of early May 1970 in the US is a really fascinating and mostly unknown story. After Nixon announced his expansion of the Vietnam war into Cambodia, students on over 400 college campuses went on strike, the largest such action in America before or since. That's when Kent State students protested and were shot. After that, there were protests, sit-ins, takeovers, riots, bombings, and widespread arson (especially against campus ROTC buildings) on campuses and in city centers nationwide. Kent State had the highest death toll, but the chaos there was not unique at that time. Governor Reagan shut down every public college and university in the state one day after Kent State happened. That also happened in numerous other campuses throughout the country, and many stayed closed for the academic year because authorities didn't want students gathering and organizing. "Kent State" specifically refers to four dead protesters, but more generally it is shorthand for what happened on just about every campus at that time. The widespread chaos in the aftermath of Kent State was comparable to what we saw in the US in May and June of 2020.
The Kent State Massacre is generally seen as a bookend to the whole 1960s student activism era (the other bookend being the Free Speech Movement at UC Berkeley in 1964, of course). And somehow, Kent State happening in 1970 kind of cements it as the literal "end of the (optimistic) 1960s." It was a very interesting time period for sure, in terms of young people actually getting involved, and calling attention to racism, not being able to exercise free speech, US foreign policy, etc. The US was becoming a global power and throwing its weight around with its zealousness for being anti-communist. People say the Cold War wasn't bloody, but it was very bloody. The Vietnam War wasn't to "defend freedom and the US," it was basically an involvement in Vietnam's civil war, with the US supporting the government of the south---which was a military dictatorship. The US only supported it because it wasn't communist, but it still wasn't democratic. Which is why I find it ironic that in Orange County's Little Saigon, many Vietnamese people there have this weird nostalgia for South Vietnam, even though people from there were living under a dictatorship.

And of course during the Cold War, the US supported a lot of undemocratic right-wing governments/dictatorships all because they were anti-communist/anti-left-wing---Chile, the Philippines, Taiwan, South Korea, etc. Particularly in Chile and the Philippines, the Cold War was bloody... Let alone what happened in Central America during that period.
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Last edited by sopas ej; Jan 12, 2024 at 5:33 PM.
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  #726  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2024, 5:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
With a VERY different mayor than the one the city had back in '68......
Right, Daley represented the exact "obey or we'll fuck you up" mentality that was the direct cause of so much unrest.


Is the current Repulican Party in as much disjointed disarray as the Democratic Party was in 1968?
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  #727  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2024, 5:27 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
The Vietnam War wasn't to "defend freedom and the US," it was basically an involvement in Vietnam's civil war, with the US supporting the government of the south---which was a military dictatorship. The US only supported it because it wasn't communist, but it still wasn't democratic. Which is why I find it ironic that in Orange County's Little Saigon, many Vietnamese people there have this weird nostalgia for South Vietnam, even though people from there were living under a dictatorship.
Old Cubans similarly look on the brutal Batista dictatorship with fondness. Havana and other larger cities were glamorous spots back then, and they liked that Batista was a "strongman" who didn't take crap from anyone.

Some Italians feel the same way about the Mussolini era. It was the last time that Italy was actually seen as powerful and a main player on the international stage.

There's a very surface-level jingoism about it... wonder where we're seeing this today?
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  #728  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2024, 5:37 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
The Vietnam War wasn't to "defend freedom and the US," it was basically an involvement in Vietnam's civil war, with the US supporting the government of the south---which was a military dictatorship. The US only supported it because it wasn't communist, but it still wasn't democratic. Which is why I find it ironic that in Orange County's Little Saigon, many Vietnamese people there have this weird nostalgia for South Vietnam, even though people from there were living under a dictatorship.
The Vietnam War was also about protecting French colonial interests. It eventually spun into a proxy war between the US and Russia.
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  #729  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2024, 5:40 PM
Buckeye Native 001 Buckeye Native 001 is offline
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Originally Posted by craigs View Post
The history of early May 1970 in the US is a really fascinating and mostly unknown story. After Nixon announced his expansion of the Vietnam war into Cambodia, students on over 400 college campuses went on strike, the largest such action in America before or since. That's when Kent State students protested and were shot. After that, there were protests, sit-ins, takeovers, riots, bombings, and widespread arson (especially against campus ROTC buildings) on campuses and in city centers nationwide. Kent State had the highest death toll, but the chaos there was not unique at that time. Governor Reagan shut down every public college and university in the state one day after Kent State happened. That also happened in numerous other campuses throughout the country, and many stayed closed for the academic year because authorities didn't want students gathering and organizing. "Kent State" specifically refers to four dead protesters, but more generally it is shorthand for what happened on just about every campus at that time. The widespread chaos in the aftermath of Kent State was comparable to what we saw in the US in May and June of 2020.
I went down some weird rabbit holes after Kissinger died and stumbled on some analyses of the Kent State massacre in relation to the Nixon Administration's bombing of Cambodia. Apparently a lot more students at Kent State could've died if the campus wasn't hilly, which allowed students and bystanders to take cover.

And then I think of a school like UC Irvine, which was originally designed and built (unintentionally?) to stop the kinds of demonstrations and protests seen across the country on college campuses at the time. Look at how many of the original buildings on that campus, for those familiar with it, are brutalist with few greenscapes and grassy areas to discourage gathering and community? My dad's alma mater, Northern Kentucky University, had its main campus built in 1968 and followed a similar design philosophy to UCI. Hell, look at almost any building constructed in the 1960s and 1970s on any campus.
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  #730  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2024, 5:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001 View Post
And then I think of a school like UC Irvine, which was originally designed and built (unintentionally?) to stop the kinds of demonstrations and protests seen across the country on college campuses at the time. Look at how many of the original buildings on that campus, for those familiar with it, are brutalist with few greenscapes and grassy areas to discourage gathering and community? My dad's alma mater, Northern Kentucky University, had its main campus built in 1968 and followed a similar design philosophy to UCI. Hell, look at almost any building constructed in the 1960s and 1970s on any campus.
I've read this about UCI (and UC Santa Cruz, too), but I don't agree. UCI's brutalist architecture of its original buildings was just the vogue at the time. Aldrich Park can be a HUGE gathering space for demonstrations, and it's at the center of the campus, basically.
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  #731  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2024, 6:17 PM
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Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
Right, Daley represented the exact "obey or we'll fuck you up" mentality that was the direct cause of so much unrest.
Not hard to imagine Daley I watching his CPD goons cracking open hippie skulls on TV with a big old tub of popcorn on his lap.



Quote:
Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
Is the current Repulican Party in as much disjointed disarray as the Democratic Party was in 1968?
We'll find out this summer, as their convention will be just up the road in Milwaukee.
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  #732  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2024, 8:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001 View Post
Look at how many of the original buildings on that campus, for those familiar with it, are brutalist with few greenscapes and grassy areas to discourage gathering and community? My dad's alma mater, Northern Kentucky University, had its main campus built in 1968 and followed a similar design philosophy to UCI. Hell, look at almost any building constructed in the 1960s and 1970s on any campus.
I think the brutalist craze was more the flavor of the month than a deliberate scheme to discourage gathering. The University of Michigan has a number of brutalist buildings built in the 1960s on campus, but the campus dates back to the 1830s. The university built a very ugly annex to the graduate school library in the 1960s that is surrounded by architectural styles spanning over a century: https://maps.app.goo.gl/vi33QsUcgdicLwWe8. Some of the buildings near there date back to the relocation of the university to Ann Arbor in the 1830s.
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  #733  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2024, 3:51 AM
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Entire campuses off nothing but brutalism often leave a lot to be desired, but some of the individual works can be drop dead gorgeous.

UIC in Chicago has two of my all time favorite brutalist buildings in the city (or anywhere for that matter).




UIC's University Hall:


source: https://www.skyscrapercenter.com/bui...ity-hall/13633




UIC's Science & Engineering offices:


SEO Science and Engineering Building UIC by Raymond Cunningham, on Flickr[/QUOTE]
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