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  #1641  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 8:51 PM
ljbuild ljbuild is offline
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Phoenix looks like vancouver , canada in the photo above

Vancouver has SIMILAR HEIGHT RESTRICTIONS which is why their downtown area consists of HUNDREDS of small highrises to make it seem bigger than it really is.
Phoenix appears to be ON THE SAME TRACK with dtwn and midtown SLOWLY creaping toward each other.
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  #1642  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 9:02 PM
Obadno Obadno is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljbuild View Post
Vancouver has SIMILAR HEIGHT RESTRICTIONS which is why their downtown area consists of HUNDREDS of small highrises to make it seem bigger than it really is.
Phoenix appears to be ON THE SAME TRACK with dtwn and midtown SLOWLY creaping toward each other.
I hope this becomes the case, Id rather have a very dense central phoenix of 10-40 story buildings than a couple random supers.
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  #1643  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 9:22 PM
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CrestedSaguaro CrestedSaguaro is offline
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I myself don't like comparing Phoenix with Vancouver. Vancouver still has several towers over 500' with 3 of those over 600' and 3 upcoming 500' footers in progress...substantially taller than Phoenix. Also much, much more dense. I don't think Phoenix will achieve that kind of density due to the amount of undeveloped lots residing around the outskirts of Downtown. It's getting denser, but not Vancouver dense. Phoenix is shaping up to be more like San Diego with a similar density and height. But I am OK with that as San Diego's skyline is one of the best looking.

I also don't think Midtown and Downtown will ever truly close that gap. That section of Central between McDowell and Virginia is going to be hard pressed to get any more height than what's already there due to the proximity of single story homes. I'm actually still shocked Viad/Dial was ever able to get built. I wasn't living here when it was built. Was there a lot push-back on that tower?
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  #1644  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 9:32 PM
Obadno Obadno is online now
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Originally Posted by RonnieFoos View Post
I

I also don't think Midtown and Downtown will ever truly close that gap. That section of Central between McDowell and Virginia is going to be hard pressed to get any more height than what's already there due to the proximity of single story homes. I'm actually still shocked Viad/Dial was ever able to get built. I wasn't living here when it was built. Was there a lot push-back on that tower?
I dont think there was the same kind of concern at the time when most of central phoenix was emptied or emptying for suburbs.

I doubt the local neighborhoods would allow such a huge tower today.
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  #1645  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 10:26 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljbuild View Post
Vancouver has SIMILAR HEIGHT RESTRICTIONS which is why their downtown area consists of HUNDREDS of small highrises to make it seem bigger than it really is.
Phoenix appears to be ON THE SAME TRACK with dtwn and midtown SLOWLY creaping toward each other.
I'm curious about why Vancouver has height restrictions. It's not like downtown is right next to YVR airport. Is there some other reason?
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  #1646  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
I'm curious about why Vancouver has height restrictions. It's not like downtown is right next to YVR airport. Is there some other reason?
They have the lower height limits to protect the views of the mountains around Vancouver. However, Vancouver's height limit is currently 700' over the central business district. So it's really not all that short.
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  #1647  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2019, 7:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
I dont think there was the same kind of concern at the time when most of central phoenix was emptied or emptying for suburbs.

I doubt the local neighborhoods would allow such a huge tower today.
Somewhere in between 2006 and the construction of the Muse there was a plan for a highrise on the NWC of Central and McDowell. The developer was Israeli I think. The Willo Board supported the project.
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  #1648  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2019, 7:49 AM
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Originally Posted by pbenjamin View Post
Somewhere in between 2006 and the construction of the Muse there was a plan for a highrise on the NWC of Central and McDowell. The developer was Israeli I think. The Willo Board supported the project.
That was contingent on it being no taller than the Viad Tower. I believe they had the zoning to go much higher (The older high-rise zoning has unlimited heights between third and third) but wisely kept the precedent as is.
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  #1649  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2019, 3:21 PM
Obadno Obadno is online now
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Originally Posted by pbenjamin View Post
Somewhere in between 2006 and the construction of the Muse there was a plan for a highrise on the NWC of Central and McDowell. The developer was Israeli I think. The Willo Board supported the project.
2006 was a wild time I can’t imagine new high rises going up outside if midtown any time soon, just look at the country club.
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  #1650  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 5:40 AM
TJPHXskyscraperfan TJPHXskyscraperfan is offline
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Originally Posted by PHX-DUDE-MAN View Post
Hi guys, not sure if you all know about this site, but this company (Dissolve.com) has some really cool aerial shots of Phoenix from 2005 to more recently. It's cool to see how much our skyline has changed within the last 10-15 years. Really cool:

https://dissolve.com/products?filter...utf8=%E2%9C%93
Where are these more recent videos on this site? They all look 10 plus years old.
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  #1651  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 6:00 AM
TJPHXskyscraperfan TJPHXskyscraperfan is offline
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I noticed a few more recent, but why aren’t they I order? They need some new ones up there, come on, downtown is changing. everyday.
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  #1652  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 2:21 PM
PHX-DUDE-MAN PHX-DUDE-MAN is offline
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Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan View Post
Where are these more recent videos on this site? They all look 10 plus years old.
Yeah, it looks like the most recent ones are on page 2 and those are about 3 years old now. I see some with the white Mariott Inn building by the Luhrs building.
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  #1653  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 4:14 PM
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I prefer Axiom's drone videos. They have much more recent footage up to Link's completion.

https://www.axiomimages.com/locations/phoenix
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  #1654  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 9:26 PM
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Not really development related, but since people here probably also enjoy Phoenix history, figured I'd recommend the Republic's new podcast series on Don Bolles, the Republic journalist famous for being murdered by a car bomb in 1976. It's called 'Rediscovering: Don Bolles."

The pod was motivated by the Republic uncovering some tape recorded phone calls they found in an old file cabinet. It tells the story of an earlier episode in his career circa 1970, and is a pretty cool snapshot of earlier, smaller Phoenix and the various power players in town.

I've listened to 2 episodes so far, and am enjoying it. They've released 3 of 6 episodes. If you like well-produced, scripted pods, you'll probably enjoy this one.

https://www.azcentral.com/in-depth/n...st/3775957002/
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  #1655  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 9:47 PM
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Don Bolles is one of the first "news" items I can remember as a child growing up in Pinetop, where all our news came from the valley.
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  #1656  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 4:12 PM
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A downtown revival

Posting here since it's not really development related. Phoenix Business Journal article on Downtown vacancy rates and how some investors are expecting an office resurgence. I sure hope so.

Quote:
By Corina Vanek – Reporter, Phoenix Business Journal
Nov 15, 2019, 5:00am MST


When Jorge Escobar’s Miami-based real estate investment firm Black Salmon bought the 101 North tower, the second-tallest building in Phoenix in August, the firm saw the high-rise as an opportunity to create value in a central business district that has matured more slowly than other Valley submarkets.

“We are firm believers that downtowns are re-emerging,” Escobar said. “Young employees want to work closer to their homes, near good bars and sports. Everything in downtown Phoenix matched our investment philosophy in the company.”

Downtown Phoenix has not benefited in the way that hot office markets in other areas of the Valley, like Tempe, have enjoyed in recent years. Yet some brokers and owners who have listings and specialize in downtown are increasingly optimistic. Though the submarket has lagged others in leasing, the area might be a sleeping giant as Arizona State University’s downtown presence continues to grow, the area’s bar scene becomes increasingly popular and multifamily development brings more residents into the city core between Seventh Street and Seventh Avenue.

“Downtown is a little bit behind other submarkets there, like Tempe and Scotts-dale,” Escobar said. “There is more of an opportunity to create value. If you have a medium- to long-term view, downtown has more potential to create value.”

Challenges certainly remain. A glut of older office buildings in need of renovation and worries about parking availability might scuttle tenant plans to lease downtown and continue the rush to the suburbs, industry experts said.

“Downtown has gotten so much attention lately, and the catalyst has been ASU, and now Thunderbird [School of Global Management],” said Jessica Morin, director of market analytics for CoStar in Phoenix. “It has brought multifamily, retail, restaurants and entertainment downtown. Ten years ago, you didn’t see people walking around downtown after work. But we have not seen that change much on the office side.”

Still vacant
While some suburban submarkets, notably Tempe and the East Valley, have seen steep declines in office vacancy rates, downtown Phoenix has not. During the past 12 months, downtown has seen negative net absorption of office space, meaning there have been more companies moving out or downsizing their spaces than those moving in or increasing their footprints, according to CoStar data. As of October, demand for office space in downtown decreased by 136,574 square feet since the beginning of the year.

While vacancy in downtown has decreased since its high point of the recession when it hit 16.5%, it still lags other areas. At the end of October, it reached 13.3%, its highest since the recession, according to CoStar data.

“Since the recession, we have seen improvements, but not as much as would be expected,” Morin said. “There is a combination of perception and reality issues that contribute to issues downtown.”

Those issues include a lack of new, Class A office space. According to Yardi Matrix data, only two new office buildings — CityScape and the Freeport-

McMoran building — came online in downtown Phoenix during the decade since the recession. Block 23, where downtown’s first supermarket, a Fry’s Food Store, recently opened, is scheduled to open its office component by the end of the year, adding 230,000 square feet of space downtown.

Most downtown leases are small, less than 5,000 square feet, Morin said. Companies that have plans to hire hundreds of people have opted toward suburban campuses in places such as Chandler and Gilbert, which is often closer to single-

family residences where employees are likely to live. Suburbs with new buildings can offer expansive space for major leases, like New York-based accounting and professional services firm Deloitte, which now leases about 200,000 square feet in Gilbert.

Morin said tenants also may be turned off to downtown over worries there is not enough parking or that the area’s traffic congestion is heavy. The city of Phoenix has tried to quell issues around parking by allowing some large downtown tenants, including Quicken Loans and WeWork, to use underused city-owned garages.

Read more: Renovations seek to make old downtown buildings just like new

The question is how much the new office space coming online will impact tenant decisions to land downtown. Ryan Timpani, executive vice president at Colliers International in Phoenix, is in charge of leasing the office portion of Block 23 and has secured two tenants: WeWork and Ernst & Young, which will move from Renaissance Square into Block 23.

“The [Fry’s] grocery store downtown is a landmark change,” Timpani said. “Most [metropolitan statistical areas] we compete against have grocers in their downtown.”

Block 23’s office design shows the difference between what tenants wanted in the past and what they look for now, Timpani said.

“Previously, companies wanted the most cost-effective building,” he said. “Now, it’s all about the amenities. For companies, employee retention is paramount.”

With more multifamily coming to downtown, more people who work in the area will be able to live within walking distance of their jobs.

“Now, downtown Phoenix can get just as dense as any submarket,” he said. “The word is getting out on how easy it is to hire in downtown Phoenix.”

Gradually, the mentality around downtown Phoenix may be shifting, Timpani said. Lately, Tempe has received most of the new-to-market companies. But, more often than not, companies are including downtown Phoenix sites in their tours.

Block 23 is actively courting numerous other tenants that have the potential to take up the remaining office space, Timpani said. The area can be attractive for employers because of its central location from both of the area’s largest employee pools, the southeast and northwest sides of the Valley.

With new office buildings coming online soon, older buildings will have to be updated in order to keep their tenants, he said.

Darius Green, a broker with Keyser, agrees that Block 23 is setting the bar. Green represents tenants seeking office space around the Valley, including many downtown tenants.

“Downtown is coming into its own finally,” Green said. “It’s becoming a live-work-play environment. Amenities are the key. If you’re going to work in downtown Phoenix, the access to amenities there. Block 23 is the biggest amenity of all time with the Fry’s for people who live and work in downtown.”

And, there is a price premium on office space in downtown. Green said users downtown can expect to pay between $30 and $35 per square foot for Class A office space, compared with about $26 on average in the Valley.
Source: https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...e-leasing.html
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  #1657  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2019, 5:44 PM
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Just spent a few days in Atlanta on business - Buckhead specifically. Some thoughts...

1. Flying out over downtown PHX - you can definitely see how the new projects are slowly filling in the area between midtown & downtown. They almost appear connected - I’d imagine in about 10 years with some luck, they will be...
2. Midtown Atlanta - my god - I hadn’t been there in 2 years but it amazes me how much happened in those two years...
3. Buckhead - the ‘Scottsdale’ of Atlanta - with 700ft towers. There are over 50 high rises there - all decent heights - 400’ and above. 1/3 of all the towers in Atlanta itself.

Atlanta metro just hit 7M. Phx metro just hit 5M. The cities seem similar in a lot of ways (car dependent, both ‘regional capitals’ of their respective regions, similar sizes and growth patterns, etc) - makes me wonder if Atlanta is more what we will see Phoenix turn into. If we can build our current momentum into what happened there the past few years...
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  #1658  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2019, 8:36 PM
TJPHXskyscraperfan TJPHXskyscraperfan is offline
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When they say 7 million in the Atlanta metro, it’s crazy how spread out that is. I think it’s like 7 or 8 counties. Of course their counties are a lot smaller than here but in comparison Detroit Metro is 3 counties. Atlanta itself is barely at a half million itself. I’ve actually still never been to ATL but looks awesome with the amount of trees and some hills. All that said, I would love to see Midtown Phoenix turn into a Buckhead,lol.

Actually did some research, it’s 28 counties! And 6 million population estimate as of 2018. The Atlanta metro is basically northern Georgia,lol. Atlanta isn’t really much different size than Phoenix. Atlanta Metro is probably the one area less dense than us.
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  #1659  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2019, 9:01 PM
PHX-DUDE-MAN PHX-DUDE-MAN is offline
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Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan View Post
When they say 7 million in the Atlanta metro, it’s crazy how spread out that is. I think it’s like 7 or 8 counties. Of course their counties are a lot smaller than here but in comparison Detroit Metro is 3 counties. Atlanta itself is barely at a half million itself. I’ve actually still never been to ATL but looks awesome with the amount of trees and some hills. All that said, I would love to see Midtown Phoenix turn into a Buckhead,lol.

Actually did some research, it’s 28 counties! And 6 million population estimate as of 2018. The Atlanta metro is basically northern Georgia,lol. Atlanta isn’t really much different size than Phoenix. Atlanta Metro is probably the one area less dense than us.
Hopefully midtown and downtown Phoenix will all just be connected and be one big skyline with the tallest towers right around the middle over top of the park/surrounding the park and I-10 tunnel. How cool would that be? The freeway going right under skyscrapers. Man, this might never happen or be 50 years down the road.
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  #1660  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 2:08 AM
xymox xymox is offline
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Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan View Post
When they say 7 million in the Atlanta metro, it’s crazy how spread out that is. I think it’s like 7 or 8 counties. Of course their counties are a lot smaller than here but in comparison Detroit Metro is 3 counties. Atlanta itself is barely at a half million itself. I’ve actually still never been to ATL but looks awesome with the amount of trees and some hills. All that said, I would love to see Midtown Phoenix turn into a Buckhead,lol.

Actually did some research, it’s 28 counties! And 6 million population estimate as of 2018. The Atlanta metro is basically northern Georgia,lol. Atlanta isn’t really much different size than Phoenix. Atlanta Metro is probably the one area less dense than us.
One thing we have better for us is - our roads & freeways. We - for the most part - have very well planned out roads and freeways. ATL seems to have fallen victim to the same planning every city back east did - put the roads where the cow paths were. So its just traffic hell everywhere - no mass transit other than MARTA which doesn’t do much but connect Buckhead, midtown, downtown to the airport. Can’t expand the roads and I-85 is already maxed out. You’re taking your life into your own hands trying to walk anywhere - even around the dense area of Buckhead itself - which is missing sidewalks in many areas. Uber driver was lamenting that they’ll never see regional commuter rail there - so doesn’t sound like it will improve any time soon. That’s bad in my mind for a metro area that size. As soon as I thought “I could live here” and then experienced nothing but gridlock the whole time I was there, it quickly went back to ‘I’ll stick with Phoenix - it isn’t so bad after all...’.

That being said - yes its pretty - lots of forested areas in between the dense urban cores. I’d imagine being up in one of those towers would make for a nice view.
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