Winnipeg Construction X

[wardlow]

Originally Posted by WestEndWander

^ this.

Also these companies spend years acquiring land to build these large parcels/holdings. In that time they are undertaking everything mentioned by Wardlow, with no one other than the city to say boo about it. There is far more money to be made on massive exurban development than off of a 3-5 lot infill that will be challenged at every turn by NIMBY's.

The city itself needs to incentivize more centric development through the elimination of endless bureaucracy and neighborhood development committees and simply growing a pair. It shouldn't be as difficult or costly to attain an amendment or an easement as it is and it shouldn't matter what Ted down the street thinks about increased density when he lives in a City.

Don't like growth or density Ted? Feel free to move. Otherwise realize that a city is not a stagnant organism where change should not occur because you've been in the area for 15 years. We cater to the Teds in this city and we end up with what we have as a result.

Side note - sorry to any Ted's who appreciate well crafted density.

Thanks for the Ted talk...

And for sure there's a lot of costs involved in new suburban development, and it takes a lot of time as well... new greenfield areas need a secondary plan if they don't have one yet (and this secondary plan needs to be approved by city council). Secondary plan involves engineering studies, public consultation, etc. *Then* comes the costs of subdivision and rezoning of the land, building services (streets, pipes, parks, etc). This is why most new suburban development is done by the bigger development companies.. they have the pockets deep enough to pay for all of this, and play the waiting game involved. And it's worth it to them because the profit margin is there (assuming the buying market is okay) and there's almost no political uncertainty that comes with infill development.

Infill development lacks the same economies of scale, maybe slightly less profit margins... then you throw in some angry voter upset about transients, "their" on-street parking spaces, and shadows causing their petunias to die, and why bother.

I don't know what the overall solution to this is... but holy smokes bringing Winnipeg's zoning bylaw into the 21st century would be an obvious start: up-zone infill properties so new development doesn't require rezoning to allow density. Get rid of the minimum number of parking stalls that are required for new infill development. Getting rid of the community committee system for rezoning approvals would be another.

These things are not very *vIsI0nArY* and don't require going cap-in-hand to other governments for money, but they do require a good deal of courage from the mayor and council.

[esquire]

^ When you have "progressive" councillors like Mayes who are dyed in the wool NIMBYs when it comes to infill, what are the hopes of ever getting a revamped approach to zoning in this city?

Not to obsess over the election, but this is precisely the sort of thing I would have looked to Glen Murray for leadership on. He was the mayor who oversaw the introduction of the downtown Winnipeg zoning bylaw in 2004 which marked a major step forward at the time.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ When you have "progressive" councillors like Mayes who are dyed in the wool NIMBYs when it comes to infill, what are the hopes of ever getting a revamped approach to zoning in this city?

Not to obsess over the election, but this is precisely the sort of thing I would have looked to Glen Murray for leadership on. He was the mayor who oversaw the introduction of the downtown Winnipeg zoning bylaw in 2004 which marked a major step forward at the time.

As per survivor the tribe has spoken time to move on. I just hope Gilly can get a portage place redelovment going maybe some development on the old tribune site downtown and obviously the kenaston and chief peguis developments.

[thurmas]

I do think with Gillingham's modular housing proposal for homelessness plus Kinew coming into power in the next year and implementing the Houston approach to tackle homelessness would do massive improvements for the city.

[zalf]

Originally Posted by wardlow

The provincial government's combined sewer regulations add cost to doing infill in areas of the city where there's combined sewers (which is basically all of Winnipeg's neighbourhoods that were built up pre-1945). This requires developers to pay for a system that offsets additional flows into the combined sewer.

Just today I was looking into what was happening with a mystery empty lot in East Kildonan.

Turns out a proposal that was originally to be an 8-27 unit MURB was cut down to 4 SFD lots, with sewer capacity cited as the reason for the reduction.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by zalf

Just today I was looking into what was happening with a mystery empty lot in East Kildonan.

Turns out a proposal that was originally to be an 8-27 unit MURB was cut down to 4 SFD lots, with sewer capacity cited as the reason for the reduction.

Where is the location of this lot?

[zalf]

^ 220 Helmsdale Avenue

https://www.landmarkplanning.ca/220-...-redevelopment

There used to be a church on that site, which closed in 2018 according to the linked presentation. Not sure exactly when it was demolished.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by thurmas

I do think with Gillingham's modular housing proposal for homelessness plus Kinew coming into power in the next year and implementing the Houston approach to tackle homelessness would do massive improvements for the city.

Yes. Hopefully his plan to have the federal government pay for it works.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by wardlow

Thanks for the Ted talk...

And for sure there's a lot of costs involved in new suburban development, and it takes a lot of time as well... new greenfield areas need a secondary plan if they don't have one yet (and this secondary plan needs to be approved by city council). Secondary plan involves engineering studies, public consultation, etc. *Then* comes the costs of subdivision and rezoning of the land, building services (streets, pipes, parks, etc). This is why most new suburban development is done by the bigger development companies.. they have the pockets deep enough to pay for all of this, and play the waiting game involved. And it's worth it to them because the profit margin is there (assuming the buying market is okay) and there's almost no political uncertainty that comes with infill development.

Infill development lacks the same economies of scale, maybe slightly less profit margins... then you throw in some angry voter upset about transients, "their" on-street parking spaces, and shadows causing their petunias to die, and why bother.

I don't know what the overall solution to this is... but holy smokes bringing Winnipeg's zoning bylaw into the 21st century would be an obvious start: up-zone infill properties so new development doesn't require rezoning to allow density. Get rid of the minimum number of parking stalls that are required for new infill development. Getting rid of the community committee system for rezoning approvals would be another.

These things are not very *vIsI0nArY* and don't require going cap-in-hand to other governments for money, but they do require a good deal of courage from the mayor and council.

The scale and ease of suburban multi-family development also makes the actual construction costs far cheaper. A few six storey buildings in Bridgwater cost $130-150 per square foot to build. A six storey infill in a mature neighbourhood costs $200.

Never mind d the added carrying costs for the land as all the approvals are applied for.

Never mind the crap shoot that a councillor could decide they don’t like it and deny it after they’ve bought the land, and all the design and development application costs have been sunk.

Never mind the added costs planners and public works tack on to the projects.

Never mind that infill developers are painted as evil villains.

I don’t know why anyone would be an infill developer.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by trueviking

The scale and ease of suburban multi-family development also makes the actual construction costs far cheaper. A few six storey buildings in Bridgwater cost $130-150 per square foot to build. A six storey infill in a mature neighbourhood costs $200.

Never mind d the added carrying costs for the land as all the approvals are applied for.

Never mind the crap shoot that a councillor could decide they don’t like it and deny it after they’ve bought the land, and all the design and development application costs have been sunk.

Never mind the added costs planners and public works tack on to the projects.

Never mind that infill developers are painted as evil villains.

I don’t know why anyone would be an infill developer.

I think that the only possible reason to be an infill developper is a passion for it. Unfortunately the business side is not compelling.

[DonaldSmith]

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bu...tail-portfolio

Anyone catch this nugget:

While Shindleman confirmed Shindico will build a mid-rise (six-story properties) establishment in East Winnipeg in the coming years, he said it also has plans to add two high-rise buildings to Winnipeg in 2024 and beyond.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

I think that the only possible reason to be an infill developper is a passion for it. Unfortunately the business side is not compelling.

that has been my experience actually....it is usually, young people who want nothing to do with suburban development.....they need more help because it doesn't take long for them to become jaded...i think there is a perception that infill is a cash cow and represents an opportunity to push what should be city costs like public realm improvements on to them....there seems to be little regard for the fact that delays and approval processes cost a lot of money that just pushes them away.....the process is like playing Russian Roulette....will you be approved or not.....even if you do follow the rules, the community thinks you are a villain....and if you don't build social housing you are not adding any value to the world.

its making me jaded too.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by DonaldSmith

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bu...tail-portfolio

Anyone catch this nugget:

Very interesting!

Although with Shindico I wouldn't get my expectations too high. To them, 'high rise development' could mean a 12 storey building in the Home Depot parking lot.

[trueviking]

it will be ray wan towers like the one on corydon.

[wardlow]

Originally Posted by trueviking

that has been my experience actually....it is usually, young people who want nothing to do with suburban development.....they need more help because it doesn't take long for them to become jaded...i think there is a perception that infill is a cash cow and represents an opportunity to push what should be city costs like public realm improvements on to them....there seems to be little regard for the fact that delays and approval processes cost a lot of money that just pushes them away.....the process is like playing Russian Roulette....will you be approved or not.....even if you do follow the rules, the community thinks you are a villain....and if you don't build social housing you are not adding any value to the world.

its making me jaded too.

The funny thing is that developers who were frustrated with this process went to the Province a few years ago and the result was the provincial Bill 37 which includes a municipal board where they can appeal things if they don't get their way at City Council... But one of the first things that was appealed to the municipal board was the approval of a multi-family project at the NW corner of Roblin and the Bill Clement Parkway. It was appealed by area residents and the board sided with the NIMBYs. So just another time-consuming layer of uncertainty to the mix.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by wardlow

The funny thing is that developers who were frustrated with this process went to the Province a few years ago and the result was the provincial Bill 37 which includes a municipal board where they can appeal things if they don't get their way at City Council... But one of the first things that was appealed to the municipal board was the approval of a multi-family project at the NW corner of Roblin and the Bill Clement Parkway. It was appealed by area residents and the board sided with the NIMBYs. So just another time-consuming layer of uncertainty to the mix.

has that been published somewhere yet?

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by DonaldSmith

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bu...tail-portfolio

Anyone catch this nugget:

East Winnipeg is probably Kildonan Mile. They were looking at adding residential to make that one work. Likely main floor retail with residential above. Something similar to Park City Commons at Plesiss and Transcona Blvd. But just in a straight line strip mall style.

The high rises I believe are at Pembina/Jubilee in behind the Walmart. There were plans for some larger residential/ seniors building jammed in the corner next to the railway/Pembina.

[GreyGarden]

I’m curious how this Municipal Board will work. Part of me was hoping that the standard on appeal would be whether the proposed development is “representative of good planning and urban design”. I hoped it’d price out a lot of Nimbys by effectively requiring expert planning evidence. But based on what’s being said, it doesn’t sound like infill development is all that lucrative in Winnipeg, so throwing in the possibility of having to retain planners and architects is just another level of discouragement.

[wardlow]

Originally Posted by trueviking

has that been published somewhere yet?

I don't think it has yet. This is just reliable second-hand info.

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by trueviking

has that been published somewhere yet?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CjNuPW8O...d=MDJmNzVkMjY=