PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Or the hole on Walnut Street. And that reminds me of the other fire hole at 3rd & Chestnut (technically low-rise).

I also brought up some questions in the Low Rise thread about some pending developments, but no one responded.

Still missing the Little Lion!

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

Still missing the Little Lion!

There was also an awesome little Bar and Grill around the corner on 3rd street. It was called Bistro 68 or something similar. Great sammys and finger food. Really good beer selection and totally cool in there.

They were open for 1 week.

Little Lion was great, too. Such a loss.

They're asking 1.3 for that burned out lot - plus a lot of historical requirements for a new build. IIRC, someone submitted a design that was sort off...industrial/historical and the Historical Commission denied it.

[DeltaNerd]

Originally Posted by Phillyguy215

Yes! Let’s talk about toll brothers hole in jewelers row.

Incredible that they were allowed to knock down those houses...

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by Redddog

There was also an awesome little Bar and Grill around the corner on 3rd street. It was called Bistro 68 or something similar. Great sammys and finger food. Really good beer selection and totally cool in there.

They were open for 1 week.

Little Lion was great, too. Such a loss.

They're asking 1.3 for that burned out lot - plus a lot of historical requirements for a new build. IIRC, someone submitted a design that was sort off...industrial/historical and the Historical Commission denied it.

Capogiro's place in that block (Capofitto?) had to close as well, which brought down all of their other stores with it.

[Phillyguy215]

Originally Posted by DeltaNerd

Incredible that they were allowed to knock down those houses...

It’s “incredible” how little toll cares for its own home town

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by Phillyguy215

It’s “incredible” how little toll cares for its own home town

Sort of like Darth Vader cares about Tatooine.

[Phillyguy215]

Can you blame Vader? The sand is course and gets everywhere.

Benifits Data Trust will me moving out of their 28th floor office @ 1500 market :/ they have no plans to return to office space.

[TK2001]

Toll: I'll try redesigning that's a good trick!

[jdcamb]

Originally Posted by Jerryiz

As a native Philadelphian I appreciate being able to read and look and try to understand all of the posts that I see about Philly living. I haven't lived in Philly in probably 30 or so years but I definitely still care about the city and it's Citizens. I see both sides of the argument in regards to QOL issues. I grew up on 54th and Addison St where my mother still lives, right around the corner from the 18th Police District. I think the big difference comes to the core of these blocks or neighborhoods. For example my mother's block Captain and neighborhood watch has an active Block that participates in things because we have known each other for most of our lives. As the parents die off or move and hand their homes off to their children or their children's children, the culture and the feel of these blocks and neighborhoods start to change. I no longer know everyone on my Mother's Block and the surrounding blocks and that's what has changed. Not saying that all the new neighbors are bad, but most new neighbors don't come from the same "community" based approach as we had growing up. I am 53 years old now, my mother is 87 and lives alone. I never used to worry about her because I knew between my family and my friends and neighbors living down there, that they would look out for her. I have lost that sense of security. I hope the city continues to grow and prosper and I wish I had the answers but I do not. I just try to be optimistic.

Pretty cool!

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by Jerryiz

As a native Philadelphian I appreciate being able to read and look and try to understand all of the posts that I see about Philly living. I haven't lived in Philly in probably 30 or so years but I definitely still care about the city and it's Citizens. I see both sides of the argument in regards to QOL issues. I grew up on 54th and Addison St where my mother still lives, right around the corner from the 18th Police District. I think the big difference comes to the core of these blocks or neighborhoods. For example my mother's block Captain and neighborhood watch has an active Block that participates in things because we have known each other for most of our lives. As the parents die off or move and hand their homes off to their children or their children's children, the culture and the feel of these blocks and neighborhoods start to change. I no longer know everyone on my Mother's Block and the surrounding blocks and that's what has changed. Not saying that all the new neighbors are bad, but most new neighbors don't come from the same "community" based approach as we had growing up. I am 53 years old now, my mother is 87 and lives alone. I never used to worry about her because I knew between my family and my friends and neighbors living down there, that they would look out for her. I have lost that sense of security. I hope the city continues to grow and prosper and I wish I had the answers but I do not. I just try to be optimistic.

This is a shame, and certainly not only a local problem. As a society we've lost a lot over the last 30 years in terms of community. I hope that we can find a way through the social media hellscape that has become our world, but I don't know.

[JohnIII]

This is about city development and as a result I didn't want to talk about the social fabric of the city because every individual has a view and we live in a time when many people see their own views and experiences however this topic has a connection to development.

I believe what is happening in Philadelphia is that we have lost family and community so neighborhoods are becoming nothing more than societies where many individuals can't name everyone on the city block they live on by the first name basis. We have had leaders who have become so obsessed with political agendas that they have adopted a "My Way or the Highway," approach; and while they have spoken of tolerance it rarely shows beyond words and into demonstration all to often. When these things happen you end up with broken policies that don't work and people interpret it as if leaders really don't care about people who live in the city whether they agree with them or not; so now we have high crime.

Of course in a generation that defines its existence on what they see in Media many individuals look around them and they see a coldness; people living around them they don't know and when they look at TV or Social Media they see other cities which look amazing; it destinations only to find that when they get to those cities they are just as troubled or in some cases worse. While I live in Philadelphia and have no grievance towards Atlanta; 75% of the people I personally know who moved to Atlanta from Philadelphia ended up moving back to Philadelphia in under 5 years so I say these things because of what I've actually seen as well as those around me. I remember being in my 20's and 30's and wanting to move to Paris and London and very nearly moved to London over these same reasons.

Is Philadelphia ever marketed in other cities? Is Philadelphia ever seen as a destination to live in or for business outside of the demographic that read Philadelphia Magazine?Most inner city minorities don't read it.

My friends; we see development and that is great; really great but even in the harshness of 1980's and 1990's New York Hip Hop there was a sense of community and Philadelphia should be very careful at losing that. Sadly I know what happens to cities who do and they usually have a very hard time recovering; it usually takes over 50 years to do it; to my friends in Detroit, Baltimore, Newark back up this warning.

I want business to come to Philadelphia and I want endless growth; endless development; I've been waiting decades for it; my doctor and lawyer friends talk about it all the time and it can happen. I really believe it can happen but we must bring a sense of community and a pride of living in Philadelphia that is multi-generations; Philadelphia must be a brand; an identity and an a value set or else we will see the next generation move away; raise families in another place and they won't come back and we do not want that.

Let the development of skyscrapers reflect the development in the neighborhoods and the families and people who are happy to live in those neighborhoods so much so it makes others want to come to us.

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by Jerryiz

As a native Philadelphian I appreciate being able to read and look and try to understand all of the posts that I see about Philly living. I haven't lived in Philly in probably 30 or so years but I definitely still care about the city and it's Citizens. I see both sides of the argument in regards to QOL issues. I grew up on 54th and Addison St where my mother still lives, right around the corner from the 18th Police District. I think the big difference comes to the core of these blocks or neighborhoods. For example my mother's block Captain and neighborhood watch has an active Block that participates in things because we have known each other for most of our lives. As the parents die off or move and hand their homes off to their children or their children's children, the culture and the feel of these blocks and neighborhoods start to change. I no longer know everyone on my Mother's Block and the surrounding blocks and that's what has changed. Not saying that all the new neighbors are bad, but most new neighbors don't come from the same "community" based approach as we had growing up. I am 53 years old now, my mother is 87 and lives alone. I never used to worry about her because I knew between my family and my friends and neighbors living down there, that they would look out for her. I have lost that sense of security. I hope the city continues to grow and prosper and I wish I had the answers but I do not. I just try to be optimistic.

Thanks so much for sharing that. Even as a Millennial, I often feel nostalgic for pre-social media days in which social interaction was much more personable, ingrained and focused on positive action.

The decline in civic society is one of the most threatening and pressing trends we face both locally and globally, and I strongly believe it has been one of the biggest precursors to dramatic increases in anxiety, violence and political polarization. But alas, that's a whole other forum. On the bright side, even as evidenced by the participation and popularity of Philly on SSP, I think the city has an exceptionally strong inclination for engaging with neighbors and community. It can never lose that attribute.

[chimpskibot]

Originally Posted by JohnIII

This is about city development and as a result I didn't want to talk about the social fabric of the city because every individual has a view and we live in a time when many people see their own views and experiences however this topic has a connection to development.

I believe what is happening in Philadelphia is that we have lost family and community so neighborhoods are becoming nothing more than societies where many individuals can't name everyone on the city block they live on by the first name basis. We have had leaders who have become so obsessed with political agendas that they have adopted a "My Way or the Highway," approach; and while they have spoken of tolerance it rarely shows beyond words and into demonstration all to often. When these things happen you end up with broken policies that don't work and people interpret it as if leaders really don't care about people who live in the city whether they agree with them or not; so now we have high crime.

Of course in a generation that defines its existence on what they see in Media many individuals look around them and they see a coldness; people living around them they don't know and when they look at TV or Social Media they see other cities which look amazing; it destinations only to find that when they get to those cities they are just as troubled or in some cases worse. While I live in Philadelphia and have no grievance towards Atlanta; 75% of the people I personally know who moved to Atlanta from Philadelphia ended up moving back to Philadelphia in under 5 years so I say these things because of what I've actually seen as well as those around me. I remember being in my 20's and 30's and wanting to move to Paris and London and very nearly moved to London over these same reasons.

Is Philadelphia ever marketed in other cities? Is Philadelphia ever seen as a destination to live in or for business outside of the demographic that read Philadelphia Magazine?Most inner city minorities don't read it.

My friends; we see development and that is great; really great but even in the harshness of 1980's and 1990's New York Hip Hop there was a sense of community and Philadelphia should be very careful at losing that. Sadly I know what happens to cities who do and they usually have a very hard time recovering; it usually takes over 50 years to do it; to my friends in Detroit, Baltimore, Newark back up this warning.

I want business to come to Philadelphia and I want endless growth; endless development; I've been waiting decades for it; my doctor and lawyer friends talk about it all the time and it can happen. I really believe it can happen but we must bring a sense of community and a pride of living in Philadelphia that is multi-generations; Philadelphia must be a brand; an identity and an a value set or else we will see the next generation move away; raise families in another place and they won't come back and we do not want that.

Let the development of skyscrapers reflect the development in the neighborhoods and the families and people who are happy to live in those neighborhoods so much so it makes others want to come to us.

I can only speak to my experience living in East Coast cities and as Gen Z, but the era of tight knit communities is pretty much over. We as a people are just much more individualistic and awkward than the past and many people 35 and younger the main demographic for new construction have no loyalty to any city or neighborhood nor can they afford to. I think it also has to do with changing socio-cultural attitudes - many of the new residents to Philly, NYC, DC grew up in the suburbs where curated social circles and lack of chance encounters creates an entrenched culture of solitude and individualism.

[TK2001]

Liberty Place by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr
The lights on top of Two Liberty are on some nights and off most nights. The paint on the base of One Liberty's spire is apparent
One Liberty Place spire. Repainting underway on the base of the spire by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

[JohnIII]

Wow; they're repainting the spire on Liberty Place. That's cool! Really cool.

I remember when they put the spire up but I wonder how they repaint something nearly 1000 feet up. Well, 900+

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Phillyguy215

It’s “incredible” how little toll cares for its own home town

I mean. I read an article about him recently and he (the founder) basically spent the entire time bashing Philadelphia (proper) the way every boomer does and giving NYC the glow up. His views on Philadelphia haven't evolved in a half a century.

It gives me great joy that their product at Northbank isn't selling (at all). After an initial flurry of interest, they've sold like 1 unit in 2 months. Compared to D3 which continues to sell its portion of the neighborhood at a rapid clip. That crap may pass in KOP but it's not gonna pass in or near Center City Philadelphia where buyers have more sophisticated taste.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by JohnIII

I want business to come to Philadelphia and I want endless growth; endless development; I've been waiting decades for it; my doctor and lawyer friends talk about it all the time and it can happen. I really believe it can happen but we must bring a sense of community and a pride of living in Philadelphia that is multi-generations; Philadelphia must be a brand; an identity and an a value set or else we will see the next generation move away; raise families in another place and they won't come back and we do not want that.

I do think Philly's best days (at least in the last Century) are still ahead of it, but I agree. I think Philly fosters community better than most big cities and there are these soft sticky connections to people even if you don't know them that well: the barista at your local coffee shop, the bartender at the corner restaurant, etc. But we can't take it for granted. Although things aren't as they used to be (i.e. knowing every single person on your block), you're still more likely to know SOME people in your immediate vicinity here than you are elsewhere. I think that's by virtue of our living arrangements (rowhomes). I lived in the same apartment in Brooklyn for 10 years and I didn't know a single person on my floor. The only person I came to know in the building was a young woman who I noticed had the same commuting pattern as me (we would leave at the same time ish every day and get on and off the subway at the same stops) so over time we developed a sort of playful banter and familiarity, but it never escalated beyond that.

Anyways. I just wish we had leadership that was focused on running the city well. If the baseline was higher than it is just in the day to day operation of the city...so many positive trickle down effects would come from it. It's not Philadelphia's job to solve all of society's global issues. It's Philadelphia's job to run the city well and provide the services we all pay for and want. That's it. Full stop. Nearly every other problem the city faces would be lessened or improved if it could just keep more people in city limits who are productive tax paying citizens.

[iheartphilly]

I know from experience a lot of a community depends on the age and jobs people have and how it affect longevity and cohesion. In states and communities where there's a high concentration of tech jobs or industries with high turnover in general, the turnover is very high leading to a very transient community. your neighbors aren't are neighbors for very long if they are moving around for jobs. also from hearing it through others, the long time owners of homes like in the NE Philly where older people have died or other reasons why homes were sold and new owners that come in and buy these homes and then rent them has certainly changes the character of the neighborhood/sense of community. ownership especially long-term ownership gives a sense of pride and security to a community especially in the eyes of people that have lived in the neighborhood for decades only to see renters come and go and not have a sense of pride of the property they are renting because they do not have an interest in improving the property or making a connection with neighbors. The landlord may be in another state or town and does not have the same level of commitment to a rental like she/he does for their own home that they live in in all things about home ownership.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

It gives me great joy that their product at Northbank isn't selling (at all). After an initial flurry of interest, they've sold like 1 unit in 2 months. Compared to D3 which continues to sell its portion of the neighborhood at a rapid clip. That crap may pass in KOP but it's not gonna pass in or near Center City Philadelphia where buyers have more sophisticated taste.

I wouldn't be rooting too hard against Toll Bro. Those A-holes still own the Jewelers Row property. Unless they fell on such hard times they would have to sell and cease all operations.

That would be ok.

[TK2001]

Originally Posted by JohnIII

Wow; they're repainting the spire on Liberty Place. That's cool! Really cool.

I remember when they put the spire up but I wonder how they repaint something nearly 1000 feet up. Well, 900+

I believe they either come out of that hole under the spire or the very top of the spire. On the top of the spire is a cage like structure, only like 4×4 feet wide. Workers climb up from the 61st floor from a ladder to a tube, then have to open a hatch then they're at the top. The workers working on the top of One and Two Liberty are always on harnesses. I haven't seen workers painting the spire yet, but I'll keep a look out. Looking back at by pictures, they started in August