Winnipeg's Exchange District | East/West | Development

[GreyGarden]

I don’t know, I have a hard time believing that Winnipeg is so different and unique from plenty of cities across the world that have seen great success from these kinds of policies. It’s puzzling that something would work everywhere else but fail here. Yet, I look at a story like this and see the backwards stupid effect it’s having and have a tough time coming up with answers.

[BAKGUY]

Exchange businesses cite parking fee increases, disappearing spaces, for closures, re-locations. Winnipeg Free Press Tiny Feast in the Exchange District is closing shop at the end of the holiday season. Many other retailers and eateries have been exiting lately. (Mikaela MacKenzie / Winnipeg Free Press)

[esquire]

Once the dust settles from all the changes and Winnipeggers get used to them, I think things will be fine in the Exchange. If the Copenhageners can do it, so can we

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/lo...564531462.html

I find these kinds of stories to be so frustrating and discouraging. In another thread I mentioned how people were responding on twitter to the ESPN article and saying that we could change that if we wanted to. What I find so disheartening about this story is that even when Winnipeg does the right thing and uses progressive urban policy to make better places for people the effect is still negative.

I've literally never had an issue parking in the Exchange. Honestly this article doesn't really have any substance - it admits that Tiny Feast closing is for personal reasons and Skip's move obviously isn't about parking. Then it interviews a whole 2 business owners - Lennard Taylor is one 1/2 the complainants in this story, and he was also the guy they interviewed last time there was a story about this. Let's be honest, he and Tara Davis both run pretty touch-and-go businesses, those types of places come and go pretty often. Has King's Head or Shawarma Khan seen a 20% drop in sales? I doubt it. There are other businesses still moving into the Exchange while these are moving out....

Originally Posted by Andy6

Why not do urban planning that responds to the actual city you're living in (for example, one that's extremely cold for nearly half the year) and to the people who really live there (who are inclined, for whatever reason (and probably a very good reason) to prefer cars to public transit and bikes?)

Basically everyone in all cities prefer cars unless you invest enough in transit to make it appealing. Our transit funding is an embarrassment compared to any other Canadian city, including equally cold cities like Edmonton. We also shouldn't do our urban planning based on the complaints of only 2 business owners who both frankly run pretty precarious types of businesses.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

Honestly this article doesn't really have any substance - it admits that Tiny Feast closing is for personal reasons and Skip's move obviously isn't about parking. Then it interviews a whole 2 business owners - Lennard Taylor is one 1/2 the complainants in this story, and he was also the guy they interviewed last time there was a story about this. Let's be honest, he and Tara Davis both run pretty touch-and-go businesses, those types of places come and go pretty often. Has King's Head or Shawarma Khan seen a 20% drop in sales? I doubt it. There are other businesses still moving into the Exchange while these are moving out....


We also shouldn't do our urban planning based on the complaints of only 2 business owners who both frankly run pretty precarious types of businesses.

I find this is a common problem with many articles. The writers are not really "journalists", per say, as they either don't have the time or take the time to do any significant research into their topics. Instead they search out one or two "positive" and "negative" quotes and represent their articles as "balanced reporting". The tragedy is, a large chunk of public opinion is formed based on lazy reporting. Eventually, public policy gets policy based on their erroneous opinions, and voila, a mess is created. IMO if the article doesn't find out if the complainers are just people with a grudge or if they have legitimate concerns, the article should be dismissed as little better than gossip.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Andy6

When the results are so horrendously bad maybe it's time to question how brilliant progressive urban policy actually is. But of course, progressives have nothing to learn ... instead, it's all the fault of the lunkheads who just don't understand that they're not supposed to want to be able to park close to where they're going. DO THEY NOT REALIZE THAT THIS IS A CITY? HAVE THEY NOT VISITED COPENHAGEN?

Why not do urban planning that responds to the actual city you're living in (for example, one that's extremely cold for nearly half the year) and to the people who really live there (who are inclined, for whatever reason (and probably a very good reason) to prefer cars to public transit and bikes?)

sooooo….35,000 parking stalls in downtown Winnipeg isn't enough for you?...you are really arguing that we are not doing urban planning for people in cars?....really?

Completely bogus article.

The issue is there are maybe 5 actual retail shops with storefronts in the entire downtown. Of course they are going to struggle. There is no critical mass at all. The solution can't be to make downtown as convenient as a big box power centre. It just isn't going to win that battle. We tried that with Portage Place.


There is more street parking in the exchange now than there was before the evil bike lanes went in. It is such a lazy response to blame the handful of parking spaces. Anyone who has ever visited any other city can see the failure of Winnipeg's downtown retail is not a lack of parking. It is that we have a downtown that is basically void of life. The solution to that is not more parking. If you want successful retail, you need to create the conditions for their success. That means things like accommodating people on bikes, transit, cars and pedestrians. If a downtown business is banking on drive up customers, it will fail because just being in a city will always make that more difficult.


It sucks for Lennard Taylor that there are basically no people in the area where his shop is. I agree with him completely. But the answer is not to give up and add four parking spots back. That won't save his business. The answer is to do the things that put people on the sidewalks. Eventually drivers will walk the extra 100 meters to their parking spot because they want to be there.

[bomberjet]

I have never, ever had a problem parking in Winnipeg. Ever.

There's no parking directly in front of your destination? Be still my beating heart. Go park down the street or on the next block.

[EdwardTH]

^ TV really nailed it. Downtowns aren't box store malls, you can't just fix downtown retail by trying to make it into the Kenaston common. If business is down then the solution is getting people living nearby, better transit access and more people on the sidewalks. Seems like Lennard Taylor can't see the big picture there. Show me a downtown where retail is thriving because there are huge free surface parking lots everywhere, I'll wait

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I have never, ever had a problem parking in Winnipeg. Ever.

There's no parking directly in front of your destination? Be still my beating heart. Go park down the street or on the next block.

Try dating someone who doesn’t have a car and lives in an apartment on Assiniboine with no parking. It’s lots of fun! Especially in winter with snow routes.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

^ TV really nailed it. Downtowns aren't box store malls, you can't just fix downtown retail by trying to make it into the Kenaston common. If business is down then the solution is getting people living nearby, better transit access and more people on the sidewalks. Seems like Lennard Taylor can't see the big picture there. Show me a downtown where retail is thriving because there are huge free surface parking lots everywhere, I'll wait

For those who can't find on-street parking, there is literally a parkade at King and Bannatyne. You are no more than 250 metres, or about a three minute walk, from just about anywhere in the West Exchange.

Here's an illustration. The parkade is at the centre of the circle which illustrates a 250 metre radius.

For comparison, below is St. Vital Centre also with a 250 m radius circle. For whatever reason, people there don't seem to mind walking the three minutes across the parking lot and the mall.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I have never, ever had a problem parking in Winnipeg. Ever.

There's no parking directly in front of your destination? Be still my beating heart. Go park down the street or on the next block.

But if people don’t do that and businesses go broke, what do you do then?

[bomberjet]

Do nothing. There's loads of parking everywhere. There's parkades, on street, surface lots, whatever.

If people don't want to go to your business because they can't park directly outside, not much you can do to change people. It's up to them.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Try dating someone who doesn’t have a car and lives in an apartment on Assiniboine with no parking. It’s lots of fun! Especially in winter with snow routes.

My Wife, then girlfriend, used to spend weekends and some evenings at my place at Fort Garry Place. She never had trouble finding a spot on the street and it was usually free as she would come by after or around when the parking was free, you just have to be up early enough to move it.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Do nothing. There's loads of parking everywhere. There's parkades, on street, surface lots, whatever.

If people don't want to go to your business because they can't park directly outside, not much you can do to change people. It's up to them.

Presumably over time businesses would move in whose customers aren’t as concerned about parking, possibly because they’re living nearby or maybe because they’re office workers.

[oftheMoon]

Originally Posted by esquire

For those who can't find on-street parking, there is literally a parkade at King and Bannatyne. You are no more than 250 metres, or about a three minute walk, from just about anywhere in the West Exchange.

Here's an illustration. The parkade is at the centre of the circle which illustrates a 250 metre radius.

For comparison, below is St. Vital Centre also with a 250 m radius circle. For whatever reason, people there don't seem to mind walking the three minutes across the parking lot and the mall.

Bingo! This whole there is no parking in the Exchange or the bike lanes have ruined my business thoughts piss me off. This illustration shows that while "7-11 pull up in front parking" may not exist, there is plenty of parking with shops, restaurants or whatnot within a reasonable distance.

I'm sick and tired of the typical "Winnipeg attitude" about parking and downtown. It's not the area or set up that's the problem - it's the people's attitude about it. Get out of the Winnipeg bubble for once, go see how real cities work and maybe, just maybe they'll get it. Effin' ridiculous already.


/rant over

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by esquire

For those who can't find on-street parking, there is literally a parkade at King and Bannatyne. You are no more than 250 metres, or about a three minute walk, from just about anywhere in the West Exchange.

Here's an illustration. The parkade is at the centre of the circle which illustrates a 250 metre radius.

For comparison, below is St. Vital Centre also with a 250 m radius circle. For whatever reason, people there don't seem to mind walking the three minutes across the parking lot and the mall.

good one. I tweeted that the IKEA parking lot is the same size as the entire west exchange district.

[bomberjet]

People's excuses are things like "It's too stressful driving around trying to find a spot. Then I need to parallel park!". For reals..

[Bdog]

I get that our forum is a bit of an echo chamber, and the article could definitely be a bit more in depth, but this is a real issue. There are several other business owners who have spoken up publicly about this in the last year, to varying degrees. Hoopers, Amsterdam Tea Room, Across the Board, in addition to Lennard and the others in this article. I also know of at least 2 others that have expressed these same concerns privately, but don't want to be seen publicly as being anti progessive or anti urban.

It's easy to throw out stats from a bike magazine that says "Copenhagen took away parking on Stroget and sales increased 800%". That's great! But that doesn't necessarily translate here. If multiple business owners are all saying the same thing, no amount of urban idealism is going to stop them from going under or moving their business elsewhere.

We need to listen to the business owners who have invested to be in the Exchange, and hear what their issues are. There have been so many unintended consequences, some I think as a result of not listening. Dropping a postcard in a mailbox on Bannatyne telling owners what changes are coming isn't enough.

To end on a positive note, for all of us ivory tower types, make sure we actually put our money where our mouth is. Go eat in the Exchange. Do your Christmas shopping in the Exchange. Support the local businesses who are struggling, and will struggle more with the departure of skip. And if you can, do it on foot, bike, or bus. Let's practice what we are preaching.

[NewIreland]

I live in the Exchange and I've seen a lot of progress over the past few years. The entire area is experiencing a resurgence. HOWEVER... 35k parking spaces or not, people do not park more than a few steps away from their destination because of THEFT! Until that aspect of life in the Exchange is dealt with, people will generally avoid the area. I know people who park their vehicle in a secure location and then get a cab to the Exchange. Vehicle break-ins are extremely common around here. People park right beside CIBO, and their vehicle gets broken into while they enjoy their evening a few meters away. It's a major problem. So, while I understand that many Winnipegers tend have a backwards mindset when it comes to urban renewal, I also understand their concerns about venturing out into the Exchange with their vehicles. It's dangerous... period!

[1ajs]

whats a real pain is allot of these privit spots are all reserved limiting access to them and making it really frustraiting and allot of them are flat rate all day not by the hour specialy around the exchange