CHICAGO | City Casino

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

It's close to the expressway, not too far from all the major downtown tourist zones, and yes if a Pink Line stop were to ever get built it could be integrated into the casino and be easy to get to.

A casino operator would probably want to be on the GREEN line.


Joking aside, the UC or GR parking lots are probably the best place where you can find such a large area.

[ardecila]

I don't think we'll see any development at the UC or Sox Park until Reinsdorf croaks. He still has this dinosaur mentality that stadiums need to be surrounded by acres of parking - he probably still has a bad taste from the old Chicago Stadium and Comiskey.

IIRC Rocky Wirtz is in favor of development around the UC and he did what he could to fill in some of the lots with team training facilities and the new clubhouse office building. I assume he was involved in the Malcolm X College deal somehow as well.

It would be great to surround the UC with liner buildings like the new Little Caesars arena in Detroit. Maybe one day...

[k1052]

Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum

Uh.... what? My parents have an acre yard and when I was a kid I mowed it with a push mower. When you drive past it it takes about 1.5s going 35pmh.

When I'm in Vegas going into the Ventian or something I'll text a friend, "I'm right outside. I'll be able to walk to where you are in 15 or 20 minutes." A big casino is the size of a small mall. And no serious casino splits up the major attractions onto a second floor.

The largest gaming floor in the entire country (at the Wynn) is about four and a half acres. Most are substantially smaller.

[OrdoSeclorum]

Originally Posted by k1052

The largest gaming floor in the entire country (at the Wynn) is about four and a half acres. Most are substantially smaller.

Sure. But there's venue space, hotel lobbies, restaurants, shopping PLUS all the support space to, erm, support the public space and none of that is going to be on a separate level. And I know this project is going to have a parking garage. So sure, Caesars or Wynn may only have 3 acres of gaming floor, but that's sort of like saying, "A 737 probably only needs to weigh about eight tons. Because that's how much 180 airplane seats weigh."

[marothisu]

MGM in Vegas and Macau are both under 10 acres, so is Cosmopolitan. Sands and Alitra in Macau as well. Alitra is under 3 acres and has 220 gaming tables with something like 7 restaurants and lounges, a pool, gym, pool, spa, etc and a 525 foot tower. I don't think it has many shops or a club though, but you could probably do that on just a few more acres if wanted like the other ones I mentioned.

I'd also be interested to see if they plan any upscale shops like you'll see in Macau or Vegas at some casinos. I'd have to think not, unless it's downtown-ish.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum

Sure. But there's venue space, hotel lobbies, restaurants, shopping PLUS all the support space to, erm, support the public space and none of that is going to be on a separate level. And I know this project is going to have a parking garage. So sure, Caesars or Wynn may only have 3 acres of gaming floor, but that's sort of like saying, "A 737 probably only needs to weigh about eight tons. Because that's how much 180 airplane seats weigh."

If the plan is to build the Forum Shops in downtown Chicago I'm going to have some *glances at retail vacancies in the greater DT area* questions for the developers about leasing...as well their financial backers might too. Vegas is simply the wrong formula to apply to an urban casino in Chicago since we have hotels, restaurants, meeting spaces, and parking already aplenty that they could never likely recover their investments if you tried to replicate Vegas.

[ardecila]

Altira in Macau is friggin' awesome. One of the most spectacular rooftop bars I've been to, and yes there is a club (but not Vegas sized). Super elegant even for Macau.

We stayed in a different Macau casino (Million Dragon/Lan Kwai Fong) that was also urban-format and nice but it felt like a windowless department store from the outside. With the blank podium, it would be right at home in River North on Rush St actually, LOL. Not much gaming space, though. Lots of action on baccarat but the slots were a literal ghost town. I think it was more of a local's casino to be honest but the hotel was very luxurious and affordable.

I would love for something like Altira in Chicago but it's a pretty unique approach globally. But who knows, maybe the RFP respondents will come to the conclusion that all the money is in the dense parts of town, and they need to change up the format from the usual sprawling shitbox. The experience of Boston and Philly doesn't make me optimistic though - both pretty dense and wealthy cities like Chicago, but the casinos still ended up in industrial or urban-renewal wastelands so they could air-drop a suburban casino format.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Altira in Macau is friggin' awesome. One of the most spectacular rooftop bars I've been to, and yes there is a club (but not Vegas sized). Super elegant even for Macau.

We stayed in a different Macau casino (Million Dragon/Lan Kwai Fong) that was also urban-format and nice but it felt like a windowless department store from the outside. With the blank podium, it would be right at home in River North on Rush St actually, LOL. Not much gaming space, though. Lots of action on baccarat but the slots were a literal ghost town.

I would love for something like Altira in Chicago but it's a pretty unique approach globally. But who knows, maybe the RFP respondents will come to the conclusion that all the money is in the dense parts of town, and they need to change up the format from the usual sprawling shitbox. The experience of Boston and Philly doesn't make me optimistic though - both pretty dense and wealthy cities like Chicago, but the casinos still ended up in industrial or urban-renewal wastelands so they could air-drop a suburban casino format.

Could you imagine blackjack in the middle of River North? They'd need semis just to haul away the cash. In the middle of the city table games, a sports book, and poker seem likely to be the draws instead of slots.

[ardecila]

^ Maybe. I dunno, if New Orleans can't get significant numbers of tourists to gamble in literally the best location to attract them, I don't know how Chicago would do.

Americans (other than chronic gamblers) seem to have a pretty moralistic view about gambling and especially table games that only falls away on the Vegas Strip.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by ardecila

^ Maybe. I dunno, if New Orleans can't get significant numbers of tourists to gamble in literally the best location to attract them, I don't know how Chicago would do.

Americans (other than chronic gamblers) seem to have a pretty moralistic view about gambling and especially table games that only falls away on the Vegas Strip.

Doesn't New Orleans generally pull 1/4th to 1/5th the annual visitors Chicago does though? Also the cross section of visitors is likely to be pretty different, like New Orleans has relatively little convention business to speak of compared to NYC, Vegas, and Chicago.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by k1052

Doesn't New Orleans generally pull 1/4th to 1/5th the annual visitors Chicago does though? Also the cross section of visitors is likely to be pretty different, like New Orleans has relatively little convention business to speak of compared to NYC, Vegas, and Chicago.

Yeah, I'm not sure using New Orleans is a good enough sample. Overall, different visitors, different type of city entirely, etc.

Americans have a moralistic view of gambling? I don't know, I'm not convinced. I grew up in a place where we had gambling 18+ on Indian Reservations. I used to go to 3 or 4 casinos and they were packed basically 364 or 365 days a year. I have been to one of them on Christmas night before...packed still.

The more I think about it, the more I like the river district site. 39 acres, and basically about a half a mile from the blue line, nor much further to the expressway. Also right on the river with killer views of some buildings, next to downtown. It would be extremely easy to fly into O'Hare and take the blue line almost directly there. Or just drive in.. imagine a new section of the riverwalk which falls in line with how Sterling Bay wanted to expand up to the 606. Imagine you can take a water taxi to and from this complex. It's also a short walk to River North and walkable to the shopping not far away.

Added bonus that you probably won't find too many NIMBYs around.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by k1052

Doesn't New Orleans generally pull 1/4th to 1/5th the annual visitors Chicago does though? Also the cross section of visitors is likely to be pretty different, like New Orleans has relatively little convention business to speak of compared to NYC, Vegas, and Chicago.

I think you may be underestimating just how large the Morial Convention Center is in New Orleans. It's one of the largest convention centers in the U.S., and there are many, many major conventions every year (save for COVID, of course).

Of course Chicago's a different animal altogether, but don't immediately dismiss NOLA's experience concerning Harrah's.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[IrishIllini]

https://imgur.com/a/tmWee5Q

Not a bad spot. Would be cool to get some additional riverfront improvements out of a casino. Should be close enough to downtown that people feel they can walk it and explore the city.

[HomrQT]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Americans (other than chronic gamblers) seem to have a pretty moralistic view about gambling and especially table games that only falls away on the Vegas Strip.

I think it's more about not being stupid than relying on morals here. If Americans want to have a good time, they'll go do it, and even spend some cash to have that good time. But I think most people realize they are throwing their money away on an experience here and know when to stop. Or at least they'll get burned one good time and won't do it again. While I'm sure there's a lot of people out there that don't gamble purely for reasons of morality, I don't believe they are the majority.

[Barrelfish]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Yeah, I'm not sure using New Orleans is a good enough sample. Overall, different visitors, different type of city entirely, etc.

Americans have a moralistic view of gambling? I don't know, I'm not convinced. I grew up in a place where we had gambling 18+ on Indian Reservations. I used to go to 3 or 4 casinos and they were packed basically 364 or 365 days a year. I have been to one of them on Christmas night before...packed still.

The more I think about it, the more I like the river district site. 39 acres, and basically about a half a mile from the blue line, nor much further to the expressway. Also right on the river with killer views of some buildings, next to downtown. It would be extremely easy to fly into O'Hare and take the blue line almost directly there. Or just drive in.. imagine a new section of the riverwalk which falls in line with how Sterling Bay wanted to expand up to the 606. Imagine you can take a water taxi to and from this complex. It's also a short walk to River North and walkable to the shopping not far away.

Added bonus that you probably won't find too many NIMBYs around.

Agree that River District is a good fit. The O'Hare idea is intriguing. Being able to get to the casino easily from the airport while on the way to / from downtown for dinner or whatever would be a solid draw. Certainly would hurt the Rivers Casino is Des Plaines though.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Barrelfish

Agree that River District is a good fit. The O'Hare idea is intriguing. Being able to get to the casino easily from the airport while on the way to / from downtown for dinner or whatever would be a solid draw. Certainly would hurt the Rivers Casino is Des Plaines though.

Also imagine if they allowed some people to dock their yachts to the casino on a river much like the riverwalk allows in some spots. Just saying ..there's an opportunity to do a lot of interesting things if you put it on the river here.

[Toasty Joe]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Also imagine if they allowed some people to dock their yachts to the casino on a river much like the riverwalk allows in some spots. Just saying ..there's an opportunity to do a lot of interesting things if you put it on the river here.

ferries/water taxis from McCormick place too

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Toasty Joe

ferries/water taxis from McCormick place too

through the locks? not sure that would be very time efficient. Maybe with a transfer at Navy Pier.

Speaking of which, why is there no ferry between McCormick Place and Navy Pier?

[psxvz]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

through the locks? not sure that would be very time efficient. Maybe with a transfer at Navy Pier.

Speaking of which, why is there no ferry between McCormick Place and Navy Pier?

Waves can be too high.

[Barrelfish]

Originally Posted by Toasty Joe

ferries/water taxis from McCormick place too

I feel like the city always promotes the water taxi in proposals like this, but I have literally never heard of anyone using it.

It feels both more expensive and less convenient than basically any other transit option. So you would just be doing it for the experience of being on a boat. But then it competes against things that are actually designed for that experience, like the architecture cruise.

Is there some use case that I am missing?