NEW YORK | Empire Station District | 9 Towers (18-20 msf)| FT | FLOORS

[mrnyc]

i think a glass walled msg letting light in below would be a great and expedient compromise.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

i think a glass walled msg letting light in below would be a great and expedient compromise.

They can do that, and more. There is still the need to move the theater from the Garden. I still believe that a new MSG can be built on the current site. They can even build somewhat of a replica of the original Penn (though it would be smaller) on site. Anything to improve the appearance.

[Sky88]

I believe that on site 4 we could have a much taller tower than the indicated 915ft. On site 5, however, it would be nice if Vornado reconsidered the original design of the 350 Park Avenue tower.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by NYguy

They can do that, and more. There is still the need to move the theater from the Garden. I still believe that a new MSG can be built on the current site. They can even build somewhat of a replica of the original Penn (though it would be smaller) on site. Anything to improve the appearance.

yes indeed -- msg, wonderful as it is inside and with its remarkable unmatched big arena acoustics, is a hideously outdated eyesore from the outside.

tearing the theater and the walls out and opening it up via using glass, while still preserving the bowl inside, is imo the absolute minimum for allowing it to stay put.

good news is its all can do -- and much cheaper and quicker to do -- than moving the garden out and rebuilding it somewhere else.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

yes indeed -- msg, wonderful as it is inside and with its remarkable unmatched big arena acoustics, is a hideously outdated eyesore from the outside.

That's the insult to injury that many people are angry about. It's what replaced the Penn Station building, even if the station itself remains. It's all about the appearance. The Garden doesn't HAVE to be that ugly.

[NYguy]

BTW, we don't talk about it much, but one of the major components of the Gateway project is the new Portal Bridge being built. They've been moving with great speed on that, and you can visually see progress as trains pass by on the old bridge.

The current bridge, which gets stuck in the "open" position, is a big contributor to delays in and out of Penn Station. It's been a longtime headache, and the sooner the new bridge is operational, the better. It will be some time though.



https://www.northjersey.com/story/ne...ys/3226334001/


New Bridge

[NYguy]

https://njbiz.com/gdc-reveals-new-hu...oject-details/

GDC reveals new Hudson Tunnel Project details


Matthew Fazelpoor
April 19, 2023

The Gateway Development Commission (GDC) announced a revised procurement strategy April 18 for the Hudson Tunnel Project.

That approach centers on dividing the “Civil Works” portion of construction – the largest piece of the undertaking – into four packages, including additional early works projects. That endeavor will encompass the excavation and construction of a new tunnel under the Palisades in New Jersey and the Hudson River, connecting to Penn Station in Manhattan.

This portion of the project consists of two tubes, each 2.4 miles long.

The GDC believes that breaking down the work into four packages instead of one will ensure a robust and competitive bidding pool for the work.

The four packages include:

- 1A: The portion of the tunnel through the Palisades to the construction shaft in Hoboken, which will be delivered via Design-Bid-Build.

- 1B: The section of the tunnel going through the bulkhead of the West Side of Manhattan, under Hudson River Park and connecting to the new construction shaft between West 30th Street and 29th Streets, which will be delivered via Design-Build.

- 1C: Including the tunneling under the Hudson River from the new construction shaft in Hoboken to the new construction shaft in Manhattan, which will be delivered via Design-Bid-Build.

- EA1: An early work project that is described as a “Hudson River Ground Stabilization” package, which will help de-risk the full project by fortifying and stabilizing the river bottom on the New York side of the Hudson River. The work will create an improved condition in which to bore the new tunnel through the eastern portion of the Hudson River section of the project and will comply with all environmental regulations to ensure protection of the river, fish and wildlife. It will be delivered via Design-Build.

Packages 1A and 1B are scheduled to begin work in 2024 after a Full Funding Grant Agreement under the FTA’s Capital Investment Grants Program is signed by the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) and GDC. Package 1C is scheduled to commence work in 2025, while Contract Package EA1 is an early work project that is expected to commence prior to the project’s full construction.

The GDC says that this new strategy was developed after receiving feedback from multiple potential contractors at a February event, followed by a series of one-on-one follow-up meetings. The packages were further refined in partnership with the FTA, as part of the work to advance the Capital Investment Grant process GDC is currently undergoing.

There are also plans for additional early works for Package 1 projects, including: The Manhattan Bulkhead Tunneling Work; Excavation Work Near 12th Avenue in New York; and the Tonnelle Avenue Area Portal Preparation Work.

GDC says that each of these advance the design of their respective package, helping de-risk the project by providing more certainty to contractors.

...The GDC also anticipates that the initial contract – the Hudson River Ground Stabilization Contract Package EA1 – will begin the procurement process in the coming period with a Request for Qualifications. The procurement for the Palisades Tunnel Contract Package 1A is expected to follow shortly after.

Tony Coscia, GDC vice-chair and Amtrak commissioner, said that this project is vital.

“We will always move nimbly in ensuring that we are utilizing best practices in contracting and in moving early work forward so we can finally replace a more than century-old tunnel that the nation’s economy relies upon with modern, 21st Century rail,” said Coscia.

[NYguy]

https://therealdeal.com/new-york/202...penn-district/

Vornado planning apartment building in Penn District


By Kathryn Brenzel
May 2, 2024

….. on Tuesday, Roth again insisted that the real estate investment trust had not abandoned the project and revealed that he expects to begin with an apartment building.

“We’re gonna take a breath,” Roth said in response to an analyst question about Penn during the company’s first-quarter earnings call. “The prospect of doing ground-up development — we will likely start with an apartment project.”

… The company is in the process of demolishing the Hotel Penn at 401 Seventh Avenue, but still plans to build an office tower there, according to earnings filings.

… On Tuesday’s call, Roth said any assumption that Vornado is stopping work in the Penn District is “just plain silly.” Still, he would not specify what the REIT’s ultimate role will be in the state’s plans.

More quotes from Roth…

https://seekingalpha.com/article/459...all-transcript

We are full speed ahead on our current projects, total over 5 million square feet in the PENN District. Any comment in the newspapers or industry tabloids that we have stopped this incorrect and just plain silly. Just take a look at our three block long construction site when you next go through PENN Station or next go to a the playoff game.

….. A couple of other comments. We think we have seen the peak in work from home. More and more CEOs are now requiring their employees back to the office. With each passing week, the office buildings feels more like 2019. And we believe it's just a matter of time before everyone is back for good. New York City seems to be leading the country in this rega…

We have done a massive and very successful renovation of PENN1 where we have driven the rents from $55, $60 to the stunning side of $100 a foot and delivered value to our tenants and we are in the middle of a $1 billion renovation of PENN2.

We -- together with that, we are doing area-wide improvements infrastructure to the public realm and we're going to take a breath. The prospect of doing ground-up development, we will likely start with an apartment project. But we have not yet announced what we're doing, we're in the middle of planning that and we're actually very excited about it.

[NYguy]

I always say this, but the people who advocate for the removal of the arena permit aren’t really aware of what the consequences would be.


https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...-square-garden

The Fight Over Penn Station and Madison Square Garden

By William Finnegan
March 6, 2023

….. Madison Square Garden has been New York’s biggest stage for mass entertainment for nearly a hundred and fifty years, and, for the Dolans, it has been a lucrative property. As bad as the Knicks generally are, the arena is almost always full for games, with even nosebleed seats sometimes going for two hundred a pop. The Garden stages more than three hundred events a year, and many of its patrons arrive through Penn. Step off your train, find a working escalator (or walk up the stairs), and you’re there.

….. In January, elected officials, including Representative Jerry Nadler and seven state and local politicians, wrote a letter to Dolan, protesting the use of facial recognition and reminding the company of its valuable tax break. Dolan has heard such threats before, and does not seem cowed.

Last year, after the City Council threatened not to renew M.S.G.’s operating permit, the company sent back its own warning. If the permit expired, it said, “MSG would be permitted to raze the Garden and build another structure above Penn Station on an as-of-right basis.” (Italics added to evoke spooky music.) “As-of-right” means, in this context, without discussion. The company apparently got no pushback.

Dolan may be less engaged in the Garden’s day-to-day operations than he is in another project, the construction of a vast, ball-shaped performance venue in Las Vegas called the M.S.G. Sphere. But he would have to be much dumber than he is, not to mention a shirker of his duty to his shareholders, to move the Garden unless someone makes him an offer that’s too good to refuse. Do we really have to find a prime plot in midtown that’s acceptable to James Dolan, buy it, and build him a new Garden before we can get serious about fixing Penn Station? It seems we do.

Last September, Mayor Eric Adams announced that he was open to moving the Garden. “The Penn Station project is a crucial one,” he said. “And if that fits into Madison Square Garden moving into another location—maybe we’ll help the Knicks win.” He flashed a smile—a joke. “So we should be willing to speak with Mr. Dolan and see how it fits into the over-all scheme of that area.”

After that, the Mayor seemed to lose interest. When the news about Dolan’s facial-recognition technology revived questions about whether the Garden would be granted a new permit, Adams brushed them aside, saying that he wasn’t interested in “how he runs his mannerisms inside the Garden.” Asked about moving M.S.G., he suggested that sitting atop Penn was the right place for it to be. “I think it’s a great location,” he said. “I’m happy with it being there.”

The city wouldn’t be foolish enough to lose the Garden (and it’s nightly events that attract thousands) and also lose possibly the Knicks and Rangers (why wouldn’t Jersey want to gain a team as payback for the Nets?) People can huff and puff about it, but neither the city nor the state control what gets built on that site.

What they can do is offer a win-win situation with a rebuilt Garden on site better suitable to an enlightened Penn.

[Busy Bee]

They may of well just said 'that's a nice train station you have there you wouldn't want anything bad to happen to it.'

[MAC123]

Originally Posted by NYguy

I always say this, but the people who advocate for the removal of the arena permit aren’t really aware of what the consequences would be.

The city wouldn’t be foolish enough to lose the Garden (and it’s nightly events that attract thousands) and also lose possibly the Knicks and Rangers (why wouldn’t Jersey want to gain a team as payback for the Nets?) People can huff and puff about it, but neither the city nor the state control what gets built on that site.

What they can do is offer a win-win situation with a rebuilt Garden on site better suitable to an enlightened Penn.

Penn station gets more than 600,000 people a day. What the Garden attracts is miniscule and irrelevant in comparison to the value of the train station underneath. As are both of the sports teams that play there.

"People can huff and puff about it, but neither the city nor the state control what gets built on that site."
But yes they can if they really wanted too. Penn Station being the most important train station in the US is more than a valid reason to use eminent domain on the area above it for the public benefit.

I'm not saying they would or even how popular (or not) that move would be, but let's not suggest as if the government is powerless in front of the Dolans.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by MAC123

Penn station gets more than 600,000 people a day.

Exactly, and the Garden doesn't interfere with that. Now Madison Square Garden itself is a New York institution, one that pre-dates Penn Station by decades. As a matter of fact, for all the talk of rebuilding something long lost from another era, they would be just as right to rebuild a Garden that resembled the long lost MSG (vII) rather than the lost Penn Station. But yes, Penn Station is vital as it brings in workers, and provide access to the Garden from the metro region. And no one is suggesting moving it. What they are doing is making the station actually functional for the needs of todays riders, not trying to recreate something that was built to serve the needs of nearly a century ago.

The Garden, meanwhile, pulls in crowds that don't necessarily have to be there, a bonus for the city. It's a worldwide brand, known in various sports and entertainment circles as a venue not to be missed. If you can make it there, you've made it. And it's in the perfect location. Of course, office buildings would also be welcome there (see One Vanderbilt, and the various new office towers being built around and above Grand Central). So people shouldn't kid themselves about that either.

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

They may of well just said 'that's a nice train station you have there you wouldn't want anything bad to happen to it.'

LOL, somewhat. What he's really saying is, choose wisely. Do you want the Garden here, or whatever else I might build in its place? And he's just spiteful enough to follow through on any threats.

But really though, they can't complain about the state of Penn Station in one breath, and then whine about plans to make it better in the next. Which is basically what they have been doing.

[NYguy]

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/...qei-story.html

Fix Penn and leave MSG in place: Renovate the train station and keep the arena where it is


By Elizabeth Goldstein
May 17, 2023

The long, agonizing debate over redeveloping Penn Station has lost sight of what should be the central question: what is best for the thousands of travelers who pass through Penn Station every day.

Instead, most of the discussion has centered on the surrounding real estate development and on Madison Square Garden. Indeed, the Municipal Art Society and other civic organizations have long argued that moving MSG is the only way to fix the many problems with Penn Station.

.....The design, from the Italian infrastructure company ASTM and architectural firm HOK, envisions a sun-filled central train hall with connections to every existing train track and vastly improved passenger experience throughout the station. The proposal allows for a dynamic interaction between Moynihan and Penn that hasn’t existed for 60 years. Most importantly, it would create a soaring entrance and a dramatic above-ground presence for Penn on Eighth Ave.

This proposal needs to be taken seriously by all of the players involved at Penn Station. The Municipal Art Society has been one of the most vocal organizations calling for the relocation of MSG, so this is not an easy thing for me to say out loud, never mind in print. But, the design, made possible by the removal of the former Hulu Theater, causes us to reconsider that position in favor of exploring this potentially game-changing idea.

This new plan does not provide solutions to all of the difficulties at Penn Station. More must be done to resolve the congestion and confusion riders face when entering from Seventh Ave.

But, while some have argued that Eighth Ave. is simply Penn’s backdoor and not worth such a significant investment, that view misses the very real benefits of developing the Eighth Ave. side. Roughly 40% of travelers, or more than 250,000 people, enter Penn every day from Eighth Ave. That is hardly a back door, and all projections indicate that foot traffic from the west will continue to rise.

To achieve a vision of a world-class Penn Station we need all the various actors to work in concert. In her very first press conference on Penn Station, Gov. Hochul called for a development corporation. We urge her to follow through on that idea. We need a conductor to ensure that all of the interested parties — federal, state, and local governments, and the transit agencies, and Amtrak — work together harmoniously.

Goldstein is the president of the Municipal Art Society of New York.

https://www.amny.com/opinion/madison...t-where-it-is/

Op-Ed | Madison Square Garden needs to stay right where it is





By Michael Wekselblatt & Thomas J. O’Donnell

Madison Square Garden, The World’s Most Famous Arena, is a New York institution and a massive economic engine that employs thousands of full and part-time union workers. There are many reasons why MSG should be allowed to stay right where it is, but for us – Stagehands and Teamsters – moving The Garden would negatively impact our hard-working union members and their families.

The Garden is currently in the process of renewing its special permit, which expires in July. It’s technically this permit that allows the arena to host events with more than 2,500 spectators. But we all know that what The Garden really does is bring tens of thousands of people together for unforgettable events – Knicks and Rangers games; sporting events like March Madness and boxing; concerts from the world’s biggest artists; and special events such as NYPD and college graduations.

Union labor relies on these events not only for our work, but also health and other benefits, and pension credits. The thought of any of those events disappearing, and with them union-backed jobs, would not only be a significant loss for the families across our region that rely on them, but also for the City, especially as it recovers from the pandemic and rebuilds its economy. MSG delivers an annual economic impact of more than $2 billion to the City and State and has partnerships with 15 labor unions, including ours. None of this would be possible if The Garden was denied its ability to host large-scale events.

But it’s not only hardworking families or the City’s coffers that would suffer with the loss of The Garden’s special permit. As the City’s biggest and most influential arena, MSG also supports an entire ecosystem of businesses that are dependent on large-scale events for their own economic success.

While a few vocal detractors oppose renewing The Garden’s special permit in the hope it would force MSG to move as part of a theoretical renovation of Penn Station, this argument is just not based in reality. The Garden sits on private land it owns. And the only credible plan to renovate Penn Station that has been announced by Governor Kathy Hochul leaves MSG right where it is.

As the Empire State Development Corporation recently noted, any attempt to move The Garden would cost taxpayers a staggering amount of money – more than $8.5 billion — that would be far better used to address the City’s other urgent priorities. Why spend all that money to move The Garden when we could simply keep it where it is while still improving Penn Station?

If we deny The Garden its ability to host more than 2,500 fans, or allow it to stay in its current location for just a few years, we jeopardize the hundreds of events it hosts yearly. This would put thousands of jobs, including union jobs, and billions of dollars in economic activity at risk.

The long-term renewal of The Garden’s special permit should be a no-brainer. No one seriously thinks Knicks playoff games or Billy Joel’s residency should be limited to audiences that would fit in a small college gymnasium.

Our members are proud to work at The Garden. It’s not only home to the most iconic sports, entertainment, and cultural events, but it’s also an important part of our community and a long-time supporter of union labor.

It is time to approve The Garden’s special permit in perpetuity.

https://nypost.com/2023/05/17/msg-ne...ation-glow-up/

MSG negotiating deal to sell former Hulu Theater for $1B to make way for Penn Station overhaul


By Patrick Reilly and Josh Kosman
May 17, 2023

An Italian private development company is negotiating a $1 billion deal with Madison Square Garden to purchase the venue’s theater and knock it down as part of its proposal to reshape Penn Station, according to a report.

The potential sale of the The Theater at Madison Square Garden and a service road next to the Garden to the ASTM Group was reported late Wednesday by Crain’s New York.

The outlet reported that a deal between the two companies is nearing, but a source told The Post that an agreement is nowhere near close to being inked.

“We have a path forward to deliver our project that fully considers all aspects from property acquisition to construction; financing, and the long-term relationship between the new station building and MSG,” Peter Cipriano, senior vice president for project management at ASTM North America, told Crain’s in an emailed statement.

ASTM pitched a plan in March to renovate Penn Station as a cheaper alternative after a previous $7 billion MTA proposal to overhaul the Midtown transit hub was postponed.

Under ASTM’s plan, the developer would tear down the theater and build a grand new entrance on Eighth Avenue across from the new Moynihan Train Hall. It would also manage the station for 50 years.

Janno Lieber, chief executive of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, told the outlet the cost to demolish the theater and to build a new entrance could cost as much as $2 billion.

The developer would also build a rectangular glass base surrounding the Garden, allowing natural light into the basement of the train station from the west and east.

ASTM said it would renovate the country’s busiest train station with public and private funds.

MSG would not confirm that a deal has been reached.

“As invested members of our community, we are deeply committed to improving Penn Station and the surrounding area, and we continue to collaborate closely with a wide range of stakeholders to advance this shared goal,” MSG told The Post in a statement.

This proposal does not currently include the MTA’s planned underground walkway that would finally link Penn Station directly to the nearby Herald Square subway station, which is a major hub for the N/Q/R/W and B/D/F/M lines, a spokesman confirmed.

The ASTM plan also appears to be nixing the MTA’s proposal to overhaul and expand the usually crowded entrances to Penn Station from the Seventh Avenue side.

[NYguy]

https://nypost.com/2023/05/22/msg-pe...m-mark-levine/

Manhattan BP rolls out MSG and Penn Station plan, backs 8th Ave. overhaul


By Nolan Hicks
May 22, 2023

Manhattan Borough President Mark Levine is backing a plan to overhaul Pennsylvania Station that would leave Madison Square Garden on top of the transit hub but calls for the demolition of its adjacent amphitheater to create a grand new entrance to the complex on 8th Avenue.

Levine’s plan echoes key proposals made by an Italian design firm, ASTM, that shocked officials when it jumped into the competition to overhaul the notorious Midtown railroad and subway hub with a proposal that focused on a grand new West Side entrance.

“I don’t want to lose this opportunity, I want to lock in a plan now,” Levine told The Post.

Levine took pains to say he was not explicitly endorsing the Italian job, which does not yet have a formal price tag or engineering diagrams, but said he found its major components attractive.

ATSM has told elected officials it expects to offer additional details about its proposal this summer.

The firm has hired Pat Foye, former chairman of the MTA, to help make its case to local elected leaders.

It calls for purchasing the Hulu Theater and demolishing it to make way for a new grand entrance along 8th Avenue into Penn Station.

“I like a lot of what they’ve proposed,” he said. “I find compelling the idea of knocking down the theater to build a grand new entrance.”

“There’s no viable site imminent,” he added. “We’ve already lost one decade waiting for this and I don’t want lose another decade.”

Levine’s leverage is Dolan’s application to renew his permit to operate the Garden, which must be approved by the City Council.

The zoning process also requires Levine to provide an opinion on the application, though his thumbs-up or thumbs-down is purely advisory.

The MTA’s current leadership — including chairman Janno Lieber, who served as Foye’s major projects chief — has pushed back hard on the ASTM plan.

“We look forward to a full briefing on these concepts,” said MTA spokesman John McCarthy in March. “However, we remain concerned that the proposal, as described so far, lacks key elements of the Master Plan agreed to by Amtrak, New Jersey Transit and MTA.”

[Busy Bee]

Who's got the popcorn?


Bombshell Report: After More than 50 Years, Railroads Now Say MSG is “Not Compatible” Atop Penn Station

A just released “Compatibility Report on MSG” by the big three railroad titans says that while loading plan arrangements were fine in a bygone era in the early 60s, that is no longer the case in 21st century NYC. MTA, Amtrak and NJ Transit in a show of unity are all calling for major changes in a dramatic new statement released June 2 about the future of Penn Station. MSG Entertainment, the owner of the Garden, blasted the new report.


For half a century Madison Square Garden, the fourth arena of that name, has sat atop Penn Station like a dental cap sealing the root of an extracted tooth.

Now, after all that time, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority has joined with two other railroad behemoths, Amtrak and NJ Transit, saying the arena and the station are “not compatible.”

“The Garden’s site plan and loading arrangements may have been compatible with Penn Station and the surrounding community in the early 1960’s,” The MTA, Amtrak and Jersey Transit said Friday in a report.

“Today, however, MSG’s existing configuration and property boundaries impose severe constraints on the Station that impede the safe and efficient movement of passengers and restrict efforts to implement improvements, particularly at the street and platform levels.”

The timing of this statement was dramatic. Coming essentially on the eve of the City Planning Commission hearing June 7th to consider whether the Gardens permit to operate a large arena on that site should be extended after it expires July 24th.

A spokesperson for MSG Entertainment, which owns the Garden, pushed back: “We are disappointed to see this compatibility report from the MTA and the other rail agencies, considering how we have been cooperating throughout this process. This is the opinion of a few and not all stakeholders involved.”

The question of the Garden’s location has become entangled with several other interlocking issues, including how to create an acceptable train station, whether to expand the station to accommodate more trains and whether to build ten new super-tall office towers around the station.

If holding two thoughts at once is a challenge in public debate, integrating all of these interests has become one of New York’s most difficult and important civic Rubik’s cubes.

Which is why on any given day it seems the focus is on the most immediate piece of the puzzle.

Jamie Torres-Springer, who is the MTA’s President of Construction and development, told the MTA Board the other day that the MTA had been asked by the City Planning Commission for a report on whether the Garden and the train station, the busiest in North America and possibly the dankest, were compatible

“So at this point, we would have to say that they are not compatible and not headed in the direction of compatibility.”

On its face, this statement would appear to support the community and architectural movement to force the Garden to move so a better Penn Station can be built.

But that interpretation is, to say the least, confusing, since the MTA under the direction of Governor Kathy Hochul has been vehement that Penn Station can and should be improved quickly without waiting the years it would take, to say nothing of the costs, to find a new location for the Garden and move it.

The MTA holds this view so intently that it is even resisting a middle plan, proposed by an Italian developer, to leave the Garden in place but rip away the theatre and other structures around it to make way for a grand entrance on Eight Avenue.

Torres- Springer, in fact, said at the MTA meeting this would be a waste of scarce capital, even if some of the capital would come from the Italian developer, ASTM. Among other things the developer would need to buy the Madison Square Garden Theatre from The Garden, at a price that Torres-Springer said was in the neighborhood of a billion dollars.

On Friday, June 2, the MTA and the other railroads submitted their “compatibility report” to the city planning commission, laying out what they wanted from Madison Square Garden in exchange for the new operating permit it is requesting.

Fundamentally, the railroads want MSG to pay some of the costs for renovation and to agree to what they called “property swaps” in which MSG would give the railroads some land it owns to create a new midblock entrance to the train station, build new entrances at the corners of 31st and 33rd and Eight Avenue and build a new loading area for trucks servicing MSG events to get them off the streets.


Rest: https://www.chelseanewsny.com/news/b...tion-BD2566333

[mrnyc]

this might be a first ... and last ... in metro nyc unity history lol.

bravo -- good on them and boo boo at my cranky homeboy dolans.

[MAC123]

It's good to see the three groups united on something, especially something as important as this.

NJT especially as they didn't get space in Moynihan.

[NYguy]

Bombshell Report: After More than 50 Years, Railroads Now Say MSG is “Not Compatible” Atop Penn Station

They can cry about it. Penn Station and MSG have been compatible for decades, and the arena doesn’t hinder station operations. But the real problem for them is that MSG owns the site. Amtrak owns the station underground. Dolan can build what he wants as-of-right on the site, with or without the arena license.

[MAC123]

Originally Posted by NYguy

They can cry about it. Penn Station and MSG have been compatible for decades, and the arena doesn’t hinder station operations. But the real problem for them is that MSG owns the site. Amtrak owns the station underground. Dolan can build what he wants as-of-right on the site, with or without the arena license.

"Penn Station and MSG have been compatible for decades, and the arena doesn't hinder station operations"

The people who actually run the station disagree with you
“Today, however, MSG’s existing configuration and property boundaries impose severe constraints on the Station that impede the safe and efficient movement of passengers and restrict efforts to implement improvements, particularly at the street and platform levels.”

[TonyNYC]

Originally Posted by NYguy

They can cry about it. Penn Station and MSG have been compatible for decades, and the arena doesn’t hinder station operations. But the real problem for them is that MSG owns the site. Amtrak owns the station underground. Dolan can build what he wants as-of-right on the site, with or without the arena license.

Agree with you completely!!