California High Speed Rail Thread

[OhioGuy]

Is high speed rail in California doomed, or at the very least set back decades, if Whitman is elected governor rather than Brown?

[DJM19]

I don't think its scrapped if that happens. A majority of Californians voted in favor of it, even knowing the down time in the economy and state budget. It would have to be voter approved to scrap it.

It may be pushed back somehow though. We need a governor who is fully behind the project and if anything, tries to get it built sooner. The sooner its built, the cheaper it will be.

[penfold]

Originally Posted by DJM19

I don't think its scrapped if that happens. A majority of Californians voted in favor of it, even knowing the down time in the economy and state budget. It would have to be voter approved to scrap it.

It may be pushed back somehow though. We need a governor who is fully behind the project and if anything, tries to get it built sooner. The sooner its built, the cheaper it will be.

Her being a rich peninsula resident, and rich peninsula residents being the largest and most powerful nimby block angry about the proposed alignment, Whitman as gov could certainly slow the momentum, possibly to a standstill for a few years, though I'm not sure she could kill the whole thing without a new initiative (though if she could, she definitely would).

[JDRCRASH]

^ Don't underestimate the power of the NIMBY trolls.

[pesto]

A surer (and fiscally sounder) way of getting adequate transit built is to encourage businesses to start and stay in California; grow the employment and tax base; and fund only a system that is clearly needed. This would require more than just Whitman being elected because the current legislature is too beholden to the welfare crowd, teachers', public employees' and other unions to ever do anything but roll-over at their command. And I don't see any big changes in the legislature because they have a massive constituency that would vote for them under any circumstances.

[PragmaticIdealist]

Originally Posted by pesto

A surer (and fiscally sounder) way of getting adequate transit built is to encourage businesses to start and stay in California; grow the employment and tax base; and fund only a system that is clearly needed. This would require more than just Whitman being elected because the current legislature is too beholden to the welfare crowd, teachers', public employees' and other unions to ever do anything but roll-over at their command. And I don't see any big changes in the legislature because they have a massive constituency that would vote for them under any circumstances.

California is suffering from serious brain drain that is the result of suburban sprawl caused by decades of asinine freeway construction.

The State needs to regain its livability in order to maintain its historic levels of economic growth and job growth. And, acheiving a high quality of life in an increasingly dense and complex place ultimately requires high-speed rail.

[202_Cyclist]

San Jose City Council gives nod to aerial high speed rail track -- for now

San Jose Mercury
By Tracy Seipel

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_16077886

"After a lengthy discussion, the San Jose City Council on Tuesday agreed with a staff recommendation to study an aerial track, not a tunnel, for future high-speed rail trains into downtown.

But the 8-2 vote, with Councilmen Kansen Chu and Pierluigi Oliverio opposed and Councilman Pete Constant absent, came with caveats.

First, the California High-Speed Rail Authority must agree by Oct. 1 that the city has the right to approve or reject any design for an aerial alignment through the Diridon Station area. If the authority does not agree, the council will send a letter asking the authority for a full study of a tunnel instead..."

[202_Cyclist]

The California High Speed Rail Blog also had a discussion earlier this week about Schwarzenegger's trip to Asia. Japan is interested in loaning CA money for this as well. The Atlantic had a good article earlier this summer about China's expanding ties to sub-Saharan Africa. China built many of the railroads in post-colonial Africa in the middle part of last century. I don't want to bash China but it is too bad we have this fixation on our deficit and taxes and we're not willing to provide dedicated funding for this infrastructure. Instead, we have to beg the Chinese and others.

China Touts `Complete Package' for California High-Speed Rail

By Bloomberg News
9/15/2010

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...ed-trains.html

"China can offer a “complete package,” including financing, as it competes to build a high-speed railway in California costing more than $40 billion, according to the nation’s railway ministry.

“What other nations don’t have, we have,” He Huawu, the ministry’s chief engineer, said in a Sept. 14 interview in Beijing. “What they have, we have better.” He declined to elaborate further on how much financing may be available.

California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger this week rode on bullet trains in China, Japan and South Korea as the state seeks contractors and financing to build the planned network linking Los Angeles and San Francisco. China is competing for the high-speed line and for one in Brazil as it works to boost high-technology exports and pare its reliance on low- wage production..."

[JDRCRASH]

I'd like to see jobs in America, but how many companies here can match what China's have?

[Onn]

Originally Posted by JDRCRASH

I'd like to see jobs in America, but how many companies here can match what China's have?

Well no American company has experience building high-speed trains so that is virtually impossible. Doesn’t mean it won't change in the future, but not today. The only advantage of buying from China would be price, where you could get everything cheaper and help with financing from Chinese companies or banks. For California that could be huge because of the budget crisis. If China had to supply everything for California I would be alright with that, as a last resort of course.

[hammersklavier]

I would imagine that part of whatever HSR agreement gets put into place is an industry collab between Kawasaki/Hitachi/Rotem/Alstom/Talgo/Siemens/Bombardier/AnsaldoBreda (pick one) and GE, such that GE will finally get the HSR startup tech that it'll need to compete in the field in its own home country and abroad. (The corollary? GE will sell elsewhere.)

Evidence? KTX. Alstom and Rotem collaborated to produce KTX-I; KTX-II is entirely a Rotem product. Rotem is selling its tech to Turkey. GE would be nuts not to follow Hyundai Rotem's example.

By the way, Rotem is Hyundai's rail-equipment construction arm.

[ardecila]

Although working with China is a tantalizing possibility, it remains to be seen how Federal and California state laws will affect the project. Theoretically, using Chinese engineering, manufacturing, and construction teams, the California high-speed rail project could see substantial cost savings. In the real world, however, there are strict Buy America requirements on Federally-funded projects (just ask Houston) and often state laws requiring unionized labor in public construction projects.

CAHSR has also been pitched to Californians as a job creation tool (just like HSR in every other state) and using Chinese labor to build the line would likely be seen as a betrayal by the electorate - not to mention an ugly echo of the days in which Chinese immigrant labor built the Central Pacific and other Western railroads.

The cost of living in California is pretty high, so the workers would either need to be paid market wages, or the construction company would have to take on the task of housing and feeding the workers itself to lower the effective cost of living.

It is interesting, though... progressive Californians would probably disagree with me, but I see nothing wrong with using Chinese labor if California can work out an agreement to give the immigrant workers American citizenship as a form of compensation in lieu of top-notch Cali labor wages.

[StethJeff]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

I would imagine that part of whatever HSR agreement gets put into place is an industry collab between Kawasaki/Hitachi/Rotem/Alstom/Talgo/Siemens/Bombardier/AnsaldoBreda (pick one) and GE, such that GE will finally get the HSR startup tech that it'll need to compete in the field in its own home country and abroad. (The corollary? GE will sell elsewhere.)

Evidence? KTX. Alstom and Rotem collaborated to produce KTX-I; KTX-II is entirely a Rotem product. Rotem is selling its tech to Turkey. GE would be nuts not to follow Hyundai Rotem's example.

By the way, Rotem is Hyundai's rail-equipment construction arm.

I assume AnsaldoBreda is out of the running ever since it backed out of the deal to partially locate some of its building operations in the proposed clean tech corridor on the outskirts of downtown.

[202_Cyclist]

Calif. gets $194M federal grant for high-speed rail

Sacramento Business Journal
Melanie Turner, Staff writer
9/30/2010

The Federal Railroad Administration Thursday announced $235 million in federal economic stimulus funds for high-speed rail projects, including $194 million for California.

The $194 million American Recovery and Reinvestment Act grant will fund preliminary engineering and an environmental analysis for 520 miles of California’s future high-speed rail corridor. The California High Speed Rail Authority is planning an 800-mile high-speed rail system linking California’s major metropolitan areas

“The funding award demonstrates again the continued confidence the federal government has in California and the progress we’re making in planning our state’s high-speed rail project,” authority chairman Curt Pringle said, in a news release. “This will give California’s system the funds we need to complete the environmental review and bring us closer to realizing the enormous opportunity this project represents for our state….”

http://sacramento.bizjournals.com/sa...7/daily69.html

[dl3000]

Schwarzeneggar vetoed the Holocaust bill!

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,1074921.story
http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/10/sch...olocaust-bill/

[JDRCRASH]

Finally he does something right.

[M II A II R II K]

Peninsula cities sue to derail high-speed rail project


http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stori...nclick_check=1

A coalition of Peninsula cities and organizations Monday sued the California High-Speed Rail Authority in another bid to derail its $43 billion bullet train project.

The project has been controversial in some mid-Peninsula cities, where residents and officials worry the bullet trains will be noisy, divide neighborhoods by running atop elevated tracks and force the seizure of dozens of homes along sections of the Caltrain corridor.

Palo Alto, Menlo Park and Atherton -- along with three environmental groups, two citizens groups and a San Mateo resident -- filed the lawsuit in Sacramento County Superior Court.

The suit alleges that the rail authority's environmental assessment doesn't adequately describe the Los Angeles-to-San Francisco project, fails to fully explore all its negative impacts and gives short shrift to other alternatives, such as running the trains over the Altamont Pass and up the East Bay instead of over Pacheco Pass and up the Peninsula.

Filed by attorney Stuart M. Flashman, the suit also alleges the rail authority violated the California Environmental Quality Act by not seeking additional public comment after revising information in the environmental report.

The suit also attacks the environmental report's ridership projections, which critics say were inflated to justify the project and its cost.

[fflint]

"[O]ver the Altamont Pass and up the East Bay instead of over Pacheco Pass and up the Peninsula."

Add a second train tunnel under the Bay to SF and I'm in. Let the Peninsula suffocate on its own gas fumes while the rest of the region booms along with new public transit.

[Surefiresacto]

Would have been awesome if instead of building a whole new eastern span of the bay brigde for both directions of traffic, if they had just built a new single westbound direction bridge and used the other part of the existing bridge for HSR.

Just a random thought as I have no idea how the train would make it to the bridge from the east.

[mfastx]

So basically what these people are doing is attempting to prevent a development that will benefit California as a whole in order to stop "a few dozen homes" from getting torn down? LOL do they not realize that when they built the freeways THOUSANDS of homes got cleared out?

That's just selfish.