CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by denizen467

I believe the first 787 to be received by United was ordered by then-Continental, and their plan (even well after the merger) was to use it out of the Houston hub to Auckland NZ. Assuming that hasn't changed, a Chicago 787 might not be a domestic-only route. Roughly speaking the 787 is replacing 767-class aircraft, and my impression is that at ORD, 767s tend to go medium-haul to Europe or Hawaii, and not domestically in the lower 48 (though they might also be used medium-haul on coast-to-coast domestic routes). It would make sense to run the Chicago 787 on lucrative routes to 1st-tier European cities or 2nd-tier (or already-served 1st-tier) Asian cities.

When acquiring a new aircraft type airlines tend to run them on shorter domestic routes between hubs for training and maintenance purposes. New aircraft types do not have the dispatch reliability of mature models. After a few months of that is when traditionally they'd begin using the aircraft on long-haul routes. At least this has been the case with ANA, who have been flying Tokyo-Osaka/Fukuoka/Hiroshima with their 787s and will only this summer (iirc) begin flying Tokyo-Boston and Tokyo-San Diego. Although ANA was the very first customer so perhaps by the time United receives their first 787 this won't be as necessary.

[ardecila]

The Draft EIS for the Elgin-O'Hare-West Bypass project is complete. I haven't looked through the documents thoroughly, but it doesn't seem like there's any new information.

http://elginohare-westbypass.org/DEI.../AllItems.aspx

Unfortunately there will be no access from southbound 294 to the West Bypass, or from the southbound West Bypass to northbound 294. This means you won't be able to do loops around the airport.

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Unfortunately there will be no access from southbound 294 to the West Bypass, or from the southbound West Bypass to northbound 294. This means you won't be able to do loops around the airport.

So despite the new roadways, western suburbanites won't be able to get to T1 - T5 without going all the way around the north side of the airfield? And if there are gates at a new western terminal, from the northeast it won't be possible to get to the new terminal without doing the same? (This of course excludes the option of using Irving Park Road and assumes there is no subterranean shuttle connecting west and original terminals.)

Is there space left over to build the junction in the future?

Or is there some strategy here to avert induced demand by western suburbanites seeking a quicker way to get into the city via a south bypass and then the Kennedy (and vice versa)?

[ardecila]

No, you've got it backwards. The interchange at the West Bypass and the Northwest Tollway (Addams) has all possible ramps. The interchange at the West Bypass and the Tri-State does not.

I guess it's a strategy to separate city-to-suburbs traffic on the Elgin-Ohare and NW Tollway/Kennedy from circumferential traffic on the Tri-State.

Unfortunately, this massive new project will not eliminate my biggest pet peeve - you cannot go from the inbound NW Tollway to Rosemont directly. You have to go into O'Hare and loop around the terminals then backtrack, or take a circuitous detour via Mannheim. None of it is signed.

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by ardecila

No, you've got it backwards. The interchange at the West Bypass and the Northwest Tollway (Addams) has all possible ramps. The interchange at the West Bypass and the Tri-State does not.

No, no; please reread my post - we are talking about the same thing. Just for clarity maybe I should have written "(via the Addams)" at the end of my first sentence.

Originally Posted by ardecila

Unfortunately, this massive new project will not eliminate my biggest pet peeve - you cannot go from the inbound NW Tollway to Rosemont directly. You have to go into O'Hare and loop around the terminals then backtrack, or take a circuitous detour via Mannheim. None of it is signed.

Are you saying you had hoped for a project that is on the W and S edges of the airport to ameliorate a problem on its NE corner? At best you'd end up with a gas-guzzling detour around the airport in order to finally arrive at Rosemont. Isn't the simplest prescription here to add an EB off-ramp around Higgins or something like that? It would need toll booths -- maybe all of this is already contemplated for the Addams rebuild?

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by denizen467

Are you saying you had hoped for a project that is on the W and S edges of the airport to ameliorate a problem on its NE corner? At best you'd end up with a gas-guzzling detour around the airport in order to finally arrive at Rosemont. Isn't the simplest prescription here to add an EB off-ramp around Higgins or something like that? It would need toll booths -- maybe all of this is already contemplated for the Addams rebuild?

The Elgin-Ohare project includes upgrades to surface arterials and even the Tri-State exit to North Avenue. Some limited modifications in the Rosemont area are not out of the question.

The closest thing is that IDOT is proposing a new diverging diamond interchange at Elmhurst Rd instead of the partial cloverleaf that they use now, which would allow for direct access to Higgins and - finally - an exit for inbound drivers on the endless stretch between Arlington Hts Rd and the Tri State. I'm not sure this will be any faster than the alternatives I mentioned above. Then again, a detour around the airport probably wouldn't be any faster either.

The reverse of my desired move - ie getting onto the outbound NW Tollway from Rosemont - is easy via a direct ramp at Devon. It only makes sense that there should be a counterpart somewhere - especially if the Rosemont Blue Line station is to fulfill its potential as a park and ride. The surface lot could be redeveloped into a garage to provide a much greater capacity - this might even be possible at no cost to CTA if they picked the right partner and landed a grant. Cumberland's garage virtually never fills up, but in order to get to Cumberland, you have to pass the terrible bottleneck where 90 and 190 merge. This is a huge disincentive to everyone except NW Side and Park Ridge residents who can access the garage via local streets.

One thing I have not seen seen addressed is the fate of the Des Plaines Oasis. It sits exactly where the interchange with the West Bypass will be, so it will either need to be eliminated or moved elsewhere.

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by ardecila

One thing I have not seen seen addressed is the fate of the Des Plaines Oasis. It sits exactly where the interchange with the West Bypass will be, so it will either need to be eliminated or moved elsewhere.

Interesting, since they just rebuilt it. I wonder how much it is utilized -- how profitable it is -- now, decades later, with many more new options for gas and food along the Addams (not necessarily just around Mt Prospect but anywhere from Desplaines to Rolling Meadows). One is inclined to question whether the costs of a complete rebuild at a new location could be recouped through profits within a reasonable time, at least just with a gas station and fast food places (i.e. not considering the idea of adding other types of tenant uses). In other words, if the average city gas station is barely profitable, how could it be profitable (even considering jacking up prices a bit) if you factor in the fixed costs of building highway off & on ramps and massive truck and bus parking, etc. In fact, having drivers instead exit and re-enter the tollway for gas and food could be more profitable, without outlaying any funds for a rebuild, since they'd be paying tolls each time.

[the urban politician]

^ I would hate to see any Oasis lost, to be honest.

The above-ground oases in the Chicagoland tollway system have always been unique and interesting, in my mind

[Kngkyle]

As predicted, Lufthansa will be sending their new 747-8s to Chicago. (+ LAX and IAD)
Not as big as the A380 but way better looking, in my opinion.



http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...icago/673205/1

[denizen467]

^ Indeed, way, WAY better looking.
The article also mentioned Lufthansa will have only 8 seats out of 362 in first class - seems kinda small for one of the premier airlines between Europe and the US.

I always hoped Boeing would rename the 747-8 when it came into service (like the 7E7 was renamed the 787, though at a much earlier stage) into something more in line with its existing convention, so that it would be the 747-600 or 747-800 or something. What was the reason for the uninspiring numbering?

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by denizen467

^ Indeed, way, WAY better looking.
The article also mentioned Lufthansa will have only 8 seats out of 362 in first class - seems kinda small for one of the premier airlines between Europe and the US.

Their A380s only have 8 first class seats as well.

[Nowhereman1280]

The real question is what Boeing does when it runs out of iconic 7X7 designations to name its planes with. The next replacement model/line will use up the last number in that class with "797"...

[ChiSoxRox]

What's after 797? The new Boeing 7107! I kid, I kid.

Edit: The date on the new Google imagery is March 12, so it's brand new. Now if they can only get the message about the Twin Cities (2001 imagery!).

[Kippis]

Google recently updated their aerial imagery for the Chicago region - while I was looking over the progress of the UP alignment at the southwestern end of the airfield, I noticed that they've begun laying out the subgrade for the future Irving Park Rd. configuration:

http://g.co/maps/w8253

[ardecila]

So they have. Various other construction projects are visible around Chicagoland as well.

[untitledreality]

Originally Posted by Kippis

Google recently updated their aerial imagery for the Chicago region - while I was looking over the progress of the UP alignment at the southwestern end of the airfield, I noticed that they've begun laying out the subgrade for the future Irving Park Rd. configuration:

http://g.co/maps/w8253

Wow, that is a really fresh update... can't be more than a month old.

[ChiSoxRox]

Originally Posted by untitledreality

Wow, that is a really fresh update... can't be more than a month old.

March 12, according to Google.

[Nowhereman1280]

Looks like the Elgin-O'Hare Bypass is continuing to move ahead. There was a meeting last night where they basically had everything drawn up and planned, no word on the status of aquisitions or condemnation yet though. Looks like this is what they are planning on building:



The full site is here:

http://www.elginohare-westbypass.org/

[Mister Uptempo]

April 19, 2012 1:30PM

BY FRAN SPIELMAN City Hall Reporter

Mayor Rahm Emanuel’s plan to forge ahead with construction of a fourth new runway at O’Hare Airport ran into turbulence Thursday when the CEO of United Continental Holdings said there’s not enough passenger demand to justify either more “concrete” at O’Hare or a third airport at Peotone.

Read More At: http://www.suntimes.com/12006727-417...w-airport.html

[Nowhereman1280]

I dunno United, my $1,100 ticket (booked three weeks in advance) to Houston says you do need more runways and more capacity to Houston. Fucking morons connect their two biggest hubs with $1k tickets? You have to be kidding me...