Commuter Rail’s Potential Is Untapped

[dchan]

Originally Posted by nito

On the political front, there is already coordination when it comes to the Port Authority....

"coordination"

The Port Authority, in theory, are a semi-autonomous entity that is supposed to help coordinate the crossings between NJ and NY (as well as managing the airports and seaports). In reality, they are yet another power-hungry fiefdom who don't particularly like coordinating and working well with others.

[nito]

Originally Posted by dchan

"coordination"

The Port Authority, in theory, are a semi-autonomous entity that is supposed to help coordinate the crossings between NJ and NY (as well as managing the airports and seaports). In reality, they are yet another power-hungry fiefdom who don't particularly like coordinating and working well with others.

The Elizabeth Line had a far more complicated network of stakeholders and systems than any of the issues that would be encountered between the two states. If Denmark and Sweden can build the Øresund Bridge and the UK and France can deliver the Channel Tunnel, , NY and NJ can coordinate to help each other.

As I’ve said before, it is just a rather pitiful situation that is an astonishing waste of money for limited benefit.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by electricron

The New York railroads have been around almost 200 years in one form or another, yet they still are not compatible with each other.

There is some ridiculous arrangement whereby NJ Transit controls Penn Station for six months and LIRR the other six months of each year. This has been going on for 50+ years.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by nito

On the political front, there is already coordination when it comes to the Port Authority. The benefits from combining operations would be substantial for both states and their respective devolved authorities, through reduced operating costs and improved revenue generation prospects.

Another point is that rolling stock doesn’t have to be just discarded. Cascading of stock which isn’t life expired can be reallocated to another part of the network to allow for the deployment of new rolling stock or plug stock gaps. Cascading is common in the UK, for instance the class 319 trains that predated the class 700 on Thameslink weren’t scrapped, they were moved to improve service levels on routes into Manchester, Birmingham and Liverpool. There is even a proposal to convert some mothballed class 319’s into parcel trains.

Cascading has worked well in the past, but cities Manchester, Liverpool, and Newcastle are buying brand new rolling stock wholly owned by themselves, with no share of ownership for the National Trust. I wonder why? Maybe they are completely tired of the UK's past "Cascading" system used in the past.
They want bespoke trains built especially for their needs too.

NJT, MRA North, and LIRR want bespoke trains in the past, and will far into the future as well. Sorry, "Cascading" will not work here.

The Port Authority already runs PATH trains between NY and NJ. It's one line out of over 26 lines. And to add to all the other incompatibilities, it is bespoke and its trains can't run anywhere else. It is not the solution.

[nito]

Originally Posted by electricron

Cascading has worked well in the past, but cities Manchester, Liverpool, and Newcastle are buying brand new rolling stock wholly owned by themselves, with no share of ownership for the National Trust. I wonder why? Maybe they are completely tired of the UK's past "Cascading" system used in the past.
They want bespoke trains built especially for their needs too.

NJT, MRA North, and LIRR want bespoke trains in the past, and will far into the future as well. Sorry, "Cascading" will not work here.

The Port Authority already runs PATH trains between NY and NJ. It's one line out of over 26 lines. And to add to all the other incompatibilities, it is bespoke and its trains can't run anywhere else. It is not the solution.

With the exception of Merseyrail and Tyne & Wear Metro (which both operate a BART-style metro/commuter rail style system), there isn't devolved control over rolling stock to the cities. Not even There are several train operators that run across the north, with the key one being Northern Trains (previously privately run, but now wholly by the UK Government's Department for Transport) which operates services across 474 stations across the north-east and north-west. However operators like Northern Trains don't own their rolling stock, they lease them off rolling stock companies, who compete with each other to provide stock to train operators (whether on quantity, cost or amenities).

Northern Trains onboarded a lot of Thameslink's cascaded bi-mode class to fill service shortfalls. The latest addition to the Northern Trains fleet are refreshed class 323 trains cascaded from West Midlands Trains (the main operator in and around Birmingham), who are in turn acquiring a new fleet of class 730's.

London Underground's old D stock which served London from 1980 - 2017 are now serving routes in Wales for Transport for Wales and South Western Railway's Island Line (which has a history of receiving cascaded Underground stock), and more will deployed onto lines operated by Great Western Trains routes.

It isn't always a case of historic stock being cascaded, South Western Railway leased a fleet of new class 707 trains in 2017, but they have since been transferred to Southeastern Trains as of 2021, all because SWR opted to do a larger fleet refresh to streamline the fleet, replacing three train classes for one (701's).

In short, it is pig-headed to think that rolling stock is some monolithic asset that can’t be deployed elsewhere, whether across the existing network (new, upgraded or intensified routes) or even elsewhere across the US where there is demand to expand or offer a service without the substantial cost of new stock.

[202_Cyclist]

CDOT says Denver-to-Steamboat train could be years, not decades, away


By Nathaniel Minor and Nathan Heffel
Colorado Public Radio
Dec. 1, 2023

"Coloradans have dreamed for decades about new passenger rail lines to the mountains — and they’ve always gone unfulfilled.

But a new project could be different.

Colorado’s Department of Transportation Executive Director Shoshana Lew said in an interview with CPR News that new rail service from Denver to Steamboat Springs and beyond could start in less than a decade. The train would use existing Union Pacific freight tracks from Denver through the Moffat Tunnel to Winter Park, Steamboat Springs, Hayden and Craig and would complement existing CDOT-sponsored bus service and Amtrak’s Winter Park Express..."

https://www.cpr.org/2023/12/01/denver-steamboat-train/

[202_Cyclist]

Proposed passenger rail line through Napa County is eligible for funding

By Barry Eberling
Dec 18, 2023
Napa Valley Register

"A 40-mile-long passenger train service proposed to run from Solano to Marin counties — and through Napa County — is eligible for federal funding.

The Sonoma-Marin Area Rail Transit District, or SMART, made the announcement on Monday. The route has been designated for inclusion under the Federal Railroad Administration's corridor identification and development program.

State Senate President-designee Mike McGuire, D-Healdsburg, in a news release called the move "a game-changer..."

https://napavalleyregister.com/news/...a5f18488e.html

[Nexis4Jersey]

I thought Amtrak was going to operate that line as a Branch of Capitol Corridor service.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by nito

The Elizabeth Line had a far more complicated network of stakeholders and systems than any of the issues that would be encountered between the two states. If Denmark and Sweden can build the Øresund Bridge and the UK and France can deliver the Channel Tunnel, , NY and NJ can coordinate to help each other.

As I’ve said before, it is just a rather pitiful situation that is an astonishing waste of money for limited benefit.

no they didnt — and there are far more issues than the two states. the feds for one are another layer.

[nito]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

no they didnt — and there are far more issues than the two states. the feds for one are another layer.

You’ve lost me here... That cooperation between two states in the same country is harder than that between two countries, with a multitude of convoluted devolved local and regional bodies? Far more likely is that there are fiefdoms that people don’t want to see change, e.g. the drama between MTA owned entities, as if they’re warring tribes.

[dchan]

Originally Posted by nito

You’ve lost me here... That cooperation between two states in the same country is harder than that between two countries, with a multitude of convoluted devolved local and regional bodies? Far more likely is that there are fiefdoms that people don’t want to see change, e.g. the drama between MTA owned entities, as if they’re warring tribes.

It's all of the above and more. It's the reason why NY State decided to build a bridge (Tappan Zee, which was replaced by the Mario Cuomo) at one of the widest parts of the Hudson River instead of sharing it with NJ and the Port Authority.

[202_Cyclist]

A railway expansion could make Bay Area-Sacramento commute easier by 2026. Here’s the plan

By Marcus D. Smith
Sacramento Bee
Feb. 13, 2024


Image courtesy of the Sacramento Bee.

"It may soon be a lot easier to commute from the Bay Area to Elk Grove and into Sacramento, especially if you like trains.

The Altamont Corridor Express (ACE), a commuter rail service, plans to include Elk Grove as one of its stops from downtown San Jose through Sacramento. The expansion is expected to be completed by the end of 2026.

According to a news release, the San Joaquin Regional Rail Commission, which manages ACE, closed escrow on land for a station in Elk Grove late last month..."

https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/tr...#storylink=cpy

[hipster duck]

Northern California actually has a pretty decent coverage of passenger rail by American standards, but it's all run by different operators: CalTrain, Amtrak California, ACE, SMART, etc, not to mention the mass transit operators. Is there some kind of fare integration?