Phoenix Development News (3) - Page 451

exit2lef · #**9001** Posted **Mar 19, 2016, 1:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Putting it in Mesa only shows they learned nothing from being in Glendale.

There's a difference between Riverview, which in right on the Tempe border, and Westgate, which is at the far west end of Glendale. An east Mesa location might be as foolish as the current one, but west Mesa is still relatively close to the Phoenix Metropolitan Area's center of population gravity. That said, the ASU site in Tempe would be better due to its proximity to light rail.

nickw252 · #**9002** Posted **Mar 19, 2016, 4:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by exit2lef

There's a difference between Riverview, which in right on the Tempe border, and Westgate, which is at the far west end of Glendale. An east Mesa location might be as foolish as the current one, but west Mesa is still relatively close to the Phoenix Metropolitan Area's center of population gravity. That said, the ASU site in Tempe would be better due to its proximity to light rail.

I agree. Riverview really would be a very good location.

There's already significant infrastructure supporting sports facilities (hotels, parking, etc) because of the Cubs Stadium. It's centrally located. There has been talk of extending the Tempe Streetcar down Rio Salado to Riverview.

CrestedSaguaro · #**9003** Posted **Mar 19, 2016, 5:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickw252

I agree. Riverview really would be a very good location.

There's already significant infrastructure supporting sports facilities (hotels, parking, etc) because of the Cubs Stadium. It's centrally located. There has been talk of extending the Tempe Streetcar down Rio Salado to Riverview.

Trying to get off at the Eastbound Dobson exit during heavy rush hour traffic, which is when most spectators would be heading to a Coyotes game, would be a complete nightmare. I use this exit several times per week. Trust me, it's a mess trying to merge through merging 202 traffic even when it's light. You could take Alma School, but it will still be a complete headache. As for a streetcar to Riverview, that would be a good decade away, if not longer. Look how long it is taking just to get Tempe going. Also, streetcars are not really ideal to handle mass volumes of people that would occur during a sporting event. It would require extra cars and that is more costly.

Anywhere off the current light rail line is a loss IMHO. Better than Westgate, yea. But still not ideal. Coyotes have a shot at selecting a perfect location. Why blow it? They WON'T get another chance at this in Arizona. There's only so much money loss a franchise will take before bailing on a city. Look what just happened to St. Louis. The Coyotes need to get this right to get the best attendance figures. If it's anywhere off the lightrail line, you are killing potential from a lot of fans that don't want to drive, don't have cars, deal with traffic problems, etc.

Didn't ASU state they would be willing to have hockey in Downtown Phoenix if an arena ended up there due to their growing campus expansion in Phoenix? I read that somewhere a few months ago. I suppose that's not on the table any longer?

azsunsurfer · #**9004** Posted **Mar 20, 2016, 5:53 PM**

The East Valley is nothing like Glendale (or the West Valley). Trust me they did learn something about the fiasco with Glendale, ignore the relative location of its demographics and you suffer in lost revenues....

biggus diggus · #**9005** Posted **Mar 20, 2016, 11:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

The East Valley is nothing like Glendale (or the West Valley). Trust me they did learn something about the fiasco with Glendale, ignore the relative location of its demographics and you suffer in lost revenues....

My point is they are possibly moving from one end of town to the other end of town, so now all the fans in Surprise, Anthem, etc. are just as far away as the fans in Chandler and Gilbert currently are.

I'm sure there is some argument to be made that there is a denser population of fans in the east valley but IMO cutting off any half of the valley is the wrong move. It doesn't have to go downtown but I think a centralized location benefits everyone involved.

Obadno · #**9006** Posted **Mar 21, 2016, 4:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

My point is they are possibly moving from one end of town to the other end of town, so now all the fans in Surprise, Anthem, etc. are just as far away as the fans in Chandler and Gilbert currently are.

I'm sure there is some argument to be made that there is a denser population of fans in the east valley but IMO cutting off any half of the valley is the wrong move. It doesn't have to go downtown but I think a centralized location benefits everyone involved.

demographically speaking most coyotes fans are in the east valley.

plinko · #**9007** Posted **Mar 21, 2016, 9:28 AM**

Park Central would be an awesome location but that's just me.

gymratmanaz · #**9008** Posted **Mar 21, 2016, 4:45 PM**

I think the Park Central idea would be cool, but no matter what, downtown is best, joining with the Suns. This way there is more use of an arena. Less dark days makes it a better use of space, and businesses around a two team arena would thrive even more!

gymratmanaz · #**9009** Posted **Mar 21, 2016, 4:47 PM**

Anyone know, if there is a target date for a final decision?... or is it more of a target last-minute date due to current arena contracts?

muertecaza · #**9010** Posted **Mar 21, 2016, 5:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by gymratmanaz

Anyone know, if there is a target date for a final decision?... or is it more of a target last-minute date due to current arena contracts?

There were reports a couple weeks ago (http://www.abc15.com/sports/sports-blogs-local/arizona-coyotes-set-to-announce-new-arena-plans-in-april-tempe-scottsdale-most-likely) that they would announce in April. That's the only thing I've seen.

CrestedSaguaro · #**9011** Posted **Mar 21, 2016, 6:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by gymratmanaz

Anyone know, if there is a target date for a final decision?... or is it more of a target last-minute date due to current arena contracts?

I would think at this point, a decision has been made and they are in negotiations to finalize deals. For legal reasons, I would imagine they are not allowed to say the exact locations as of yet.

I am going to assume that Downtown Phoenix is out since it's been stated voter approval would be needed to finance a new arena. Phoenix just sat too long on this.

PHXFlyer11 · #**9012** Posted **Mar 21, 2016, 6:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

I would think at this point, a decision has been made and they are in negotiations to finalize deals. For legal reasons, I would imagine they are not allowed to say the exact locations as of yet.

I am going to assume that Downtown Phoenix is out since it's been stated voter approval would be needed to finance a new arena. Phoenix just sat too long on this.

That would seem to be confirmed by Mayor Stanton on the the radio a couple weeks back really playing up the need for a new Suns arena because of concerts and needing a world-class venue. No indication at all it could house a hockey team. My guess is Tempe with ASU. At least I hope. How terrible would it be if the stadium district only had one stadium??

Jjs5056 · #**9013** Posted **Mar 22, 2016, 10:12 PM**

exit2lef- Thanks for confirming more info on the Forno building. I gloss over Jon's posts and that was where my original statement came from; I don't recall him ever making anything up, but either way, sorry to have started a mini-rumor. I really don't like hearing of any construction in that area... it's just nearly perfect in its mix of uses, scale, etc. The risk of a dirt lot isn't worth losing a nice, restored 4-5 tenant building IMO.

Ronnie- I agree that Mesa, even Riverview, is a stupid choice for the Coyotes. The reasons streetcar is a bad choice for moving game-day traffic was already noted, but it's also just as silly as extending LRT to Westgate for the Cardinals. The Valley really shouldn't be wasting money expanding transit to serve nodes with very small peak activity.

PHXFlyer11- I am sure the name of the District will change eventually. The 'Stadium' just comes from the fact that the district's purpose is to fund SDS renovations. Use of the land for sports venues makes sense just given what's there and what's needed, but I don't think that there will be a huge effort made to consolidate all athletic buildings into the area. IOW, I could see athletic uses on Uni/Mill, for example.

Are there any good examples of hockey venues being used for other activities? It'd be a shame to build any kind of arena/stadium in Tempe that didn't help fill the void of event/performance, conference, and amateur athletic space the city seems to want to fill.

muertecaza · #**9014** Posted **Mar 22, 2016, 10:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Are there any good examples of hockey venues being used for other activities? It'd be a shame to build any kind of arena/stadium in Tempe that didn't help fill the void of event/performance, conference, and amateur athletic space the city seems to want to fill.

I would imagine that between ASU Hockey and the Coyotes, a Tempe stadium would be pretty booked up from September - April/May. 40+ home Coyotes games, 20+ home ASU games, throw in some preseason, playoff, and other exhibition type games, and you've got a pretty busy in-season schedule.

As far as concerts go, I saw Springsteen at Gila River, and I'm pretty sure it's somewhat regularly used for concerts. I bet a well-designed hockey stadium could help get Tempe back into the arena concert game like when the football stadium used to host more concerts.

dtnphx · #**9015** Posted **Mar 23, 2016, 5:39 PM**

This is revisiting a mostly dead topic, but as I was scrolling through this article on Dutch super Architect Bjarke Ingels who (profiled on 60 minutes this past Sunday) has designed the new Word Trade Center 2, a new Smithsonian building and many prominent projects throughout the world including, wait for it-- The Big Pin/Phoenix Observation Tower. Here is a list of projects he's working on/and or proposed. The Pin is listed 6th one down on the list. Funny to see it listed with all the other major projects worldwide. Hopefully, a world-class architect will someday build something spectacular downtown. Fingers crossed.

https://www.bisnow.com/national/news...21?single-page

CrestedSaguaro · #**9016** Posted **Mar 23, 2016, 7:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtnphx

This is revisiting a mostly dead topic, but as I was scrolling through this article on Dutch super Architect Bjarke Ingels who (profiled on 60 minutes this past Sunday) has designed the new Word Trade Center 2, a new Smithsonian building and many prominent projects throughout the world including, wait for it-- The Big Pin/Phoenix Observation Tower. Here is a list of projects he's working on/and or proposed. The Pin is listed 6th one down on the list. Funny to see it listed with all the other major projects worldwide. Hopefully, a world-class architect will someday build something spectacular downtown. Fingers crossed.

https://www.bisnow.com/national/news...21?single-page

I really never thought the Pin was all that bad as far as the design. The problems were height (really needed to be at least '550 or taller) and location. I always felt Civic Park in the grass lot adjacent to the South of the post office could have worked IMO. Small footprint for that spot and could have helped showcase that spiral thingie and been a marker for ASU Downtown.

Hance Park was a more favored location, but structurally speaking, not sure how much the tunnel would've be able to handle the weight without a large amount of added engineering and increasing cost?

For some reason, I have a feeling we will see another Pin proposal again.

PHXFlyer11 · #**9017** Posted **Mar 23, 2016, 8:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

I really never thought the Pin was all that bad as far as the design. The problems were height (really needed to be at least '550 or taller) and location. I always felt Civic Park in the grass lot adjacent to the South of the post office could have worked IMO. Small footprint for that spot and could have helped showcase that spiral thingie and been a marker for ASU Downtown.

Hance Park was a more favored location, but structurally speaking, not sure how much the tunnel would've be able to handle the weight without a large amount of added engineering and increasing cost?

For some reason, I have a feeling we will see another Pin proposal again.

I kind of prefer Hance because it's between the sky lines. But I get that not too many tourists or convention-goers who are downtown are going to go up to Hance, so that would hurt sales.

On the other hand, how cool would it be to see the Pin (Phoenix) rising through their planned "clouds!"

ASUSunDevil · #**9018** Posted **Mar 23, 2016, 8:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtnphx

This is revisiting a mostly dead topic, but as I was scrolling through this article on Dutch super Architect Bjarke Ingels who (profiled on 60 minutes this past Sunday) has designed the new Word Trade Center 2, a new Smithsonian building and many prominent projects throughout the world including, wait for it-- The Big Pin/Phoenix Observation Tower. Here is a list of projects he's working on/and or proposed. The Pin is listed 6th one down on the list. Funny to see it listed with all the other major projects worldwide. Hopefully, a world-class architect will someday build something spectacular downtown. Fingers crossed.

https://www.bisnow.com/national/news...21?single-page

I was watching 60 Minutes thinking the exact same thing. Not sure how a city that needs an iconic structure so badly (Phoenix) would let a project from the world's most in-demand architect slide through its fingers. Supposedly The Pin is "dead", but with the praise that Ingels projects are currently receiving, I can see it coming back to life.

Apparently I'm in the minority, but I always liked The Pin's design and thought the bar/restaurant/event space would work great near the Convention Center.

From Ingels website: http://www.big.dk/#projects-pho

gymratmanaz · #**9019** Posted **Mar 23, 2016, 10:13 PM**

I too loved it. I still want it downtown!!!!

ASU Diablo · #**9020** Posted **Mar 23, 2016, 10:39 PM**

same here, loved the design. Anyways, just realized the original proposed location was on the South Convention Center site. If this did go through, where would the new Suns arena go!?

Like others, I think Hance would be a great location but distance/engineering would be an issue. Civic Space Park would be the next best option