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  #3241  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 2:59 AM
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Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
Fair question and I'm sure the answer is different for everybody. All I can answer is for me personally why I have the pull to move there.

Where we live now, the median home price is about $550,000. You need to make $105,000 per year with $100,000 down payment to even qualify for a loan, and that's assuming you have no other debt. Compared to how the wages are here, it's just not even worth it if you ask me. To live in a middle class neighborhood, you better be ready to fork out $650,000 to $750,000 - anywhere with good schools basically starts in this bracket. At today's interest rates, even with $200,000 down, you're looking at a PITI of $3500-$4000 per month in housing alone. Our daycare bill is literally twice our mortgage, too.

When you look at the wages for engineers and other professionals in Mid-Michigan, they're not that much lower than here. This will be different depending on your industry, but the pay scale in my current job is only about 15% higher than what I was making in Lansing, but the housing is wayyy cheaper in Michigan. My wife or myself could choose to quit one of our jobs or go part time, spending more time at home with our children and not having to pay for daycare. My parents are also there, which would mean more opportunities for weekends away/date nights, which would be $25/hr here. It's a real consideration for us.
Yeah, totally makes sense to given the situation you describe. And given that your parents are there, of course.

Also, I didn’t realize that Portland was that pricey — Jesus!

Last edited by pj3000; Jan 26, 2023 at 4:35 PM.
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  #3242  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 4:50 AM
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Ok... back to full-on gritty Great Lakes city stuff...

What waterfront smokestacks still exist in your Great Lakes city?

Erie, Pennsylvania


Hammermill Paper - founded 1898; "3 sisters stacks" are all that remains of what was once the largest paper mill in the world (and one of the largest polluters in the world!); 2 massive stacks (including an enormous digester) were demo'd in 2002; 3 remaining stacks still used for navigation purposes; also... the name "Hammermill" is about as hardcore as you can get!







Erie Coke - founded in 1833 as Jarvis Iron Company; ceased operations as Erie Coke in 2019


Pennsylvania Electric Company - remnant of a coal-fired steam-generating plant built in 1915 and partially demolished in the early 1990s





Last edited by pj3000; Jan 26, 2023 at 5:06 AM.
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  #3243  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 2:56 PM
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Any Great Lakes afficienado should make a trip across the Skyway Bridge in Hamilton for one of the best views in the region. You get the full breadth of the steel mills in Hamilton Harbour, and there's usually a fair number of ships anchored in the harbour. On a clear day you can make out the Toronto skyline in the other direction. Plenty of smokestacks and other things to pick out from this vantage point.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2960...7i16384!8i8192


from: The Toronto Star https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...d-traffic.html

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2960...7i16384!8i8192
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  #3244  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 3:45 PM
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Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
Any Great Lakes afficienado should make a trip across the Skyway Bridge in Hamilton for one of the best views in the region. You get the full breadth of the steel mills in Hamilton Harbour, and there's usually a fair number of ships anchored in the harbour. On a clear day you can make out the Toronto skyline in the other direction. Plenty of smokestacks and other things to pick out from this vantage point.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2960...7i16384!8i8192


from: The Toronto Star https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...d-traffic.html

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2960...7i16384!8i8192
Very Chicago skyline viewed from northwest Indiana vibes going on here.
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  #3245  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 4:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Centropolis View Post
yeah, has nothing to do with Chicago. At least initially (dont know now) Boeing left Boeing Defense execs in St. Louis after MAC was absorbed and I’m not aware of the same amount of issues. To be sure when jumping a flight to St. Louis it takes longer to get to Midway or O’Hare than the flight itself if they did move them to Chicago.

i dont know what happened with Boeing but when execs arent talking to engineers enough about problems bad shit happens…PEs typically have a moral and direct connection to plans/drawings when they stamp them (or whatever the process is in manufacturing) unlike execs.
Yeah, I'm not saying that Chicago specifically is a bad place to run a large company, just that I think when large companies decide to pack up and move their HQ, more often than not it signals something unsettling about the state of the company (or the state of the company's leadership). If a company is already operating at the scale of a 10,000+ employee multi-national then I can think of very few compelling reasons for why relocating a company is necessary.
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  #3246  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 4:19 PM
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Because Chicago made the conscious decision to protect most of its lakefront as public parkland, and move industry inland on the rivers, the city never had much in the way of "smokestacks on the water".

The main exception was US Steel's massive old South Works mill down at the mouth of the Calumet River, roughly 11 miles south of the loop.

The mill was shuttered for good back in 1992 and is now a vast vacant tract of lakefront land slowing being reclaimed by mother nature.



South Works back in the day:


Source: http://photos.wikimapia.org/p/00/01/57/58/06_big.jpg



Now:


Source: https://www.connectcre.com/stories/u...o-site-market/





But if heavy industry on the lakefront is your thing, NW Indiana has got you covered!

The three biggest integrated steel mills still operating in NA are all located at the very bottom of lake Michigan within several miles of each other.

Together, the three mills pictured below produce over half of the nation's raw steel made from mineral ore.


Indiana Harbor (Cleveland Cliffs):


source: wikipedia



Gary Works (US Steel):

(to give a sense of scale to these steel mills, the ship channel pictured below is over 1 mile long)


source: https://www.wbaa.org/post/steelworke...utcry#stream/0



Burns Harbor (Cleveland Cliffs):


source: wikipedia
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Jan 18, 2024 at 3:27 AM.
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  #3247  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 5:27 PM
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a little further east of the big steel mills, Michigan City, IN still has a large coal-fired power plant right on the lakefront, complete with a giant cooling tower.

although NIPSCO, the plant's operator, says that they will be retiring it later this decade.


source: https://www.spglobal.com/marketintel...ition-67647251





and a bit incongruously, up in chicago's ritzy northshore burbs, Winnetka, IL still has a small municipally-owned power plant on the lakefront, with a large stack that serves as a local landmark for the area, that supplies electricity to the town.


source: https://www.estately.com/listings/in...rivate-road--4
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  #3248  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 5:32 PM
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It's not located in a city, but I can usually spot the 600 foot tower at the former Kintigh Generating Station in New York from the 40th floor of my office in Downtown Toronto. I guess it's only about 45 miles away but it feels much further.

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  #3249  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 5:40 PM
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Not sure if this counts, but Eckert Power Station, Lansing:

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  #3250  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 7:54 PM
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The Hiram Walker distillery smokestack in the foreground and the Ford Powerhouse in the background. These are about 5 km east of downtown.

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  #3251  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 9:39 PM
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Buffalo's former gargantuan Lackawanna Steel / Bethlehem Steel plant (1902-1982), Lackawanna, NY.

At one time, 22,000 were employed on the site (WWII) at what was once reportedly the 4th largest steel mill in the world. At its height of production in 1973, 40 million tons of steel was produced from this site.

fun fact: The Peace Bridge c.1927 crossing over the Niagara River from Buffalo to Fort Erie, Ontario, Canada was made from this steel. Also, the Golden Gate Bridge, and Empire State building.






Now a derelict site besides the Steel Winds (14x2.5 MW) wind turbine project, and Steel Sun which features thousands (26,000?) solar panels.






https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_Winds

The remainder of the site is a growing, mostly light industrial base.
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  #3252  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 12:21 AM
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Hamilton's industrial waterfront is home to 4 primary operators as wells dozens of smaller ones:

1. Stelco, Steel manufacturing
2. Arcelormittal Dofasco, Steel manufacturing
3. National Steel Car, the largest manufacturer of rail cars in North America
4. AIM Recycling - raw materials processing and recycling

Stelco is currently scaling down their operations in Hamilton and demolished a large part of their steel mill last year, preceding a $500 million sale of most of it's lands in the fall. The purchaser is planning a modern industrial park:



Arcelormittal Dofasco is currently going through a $1 billion renovation to cut it's carbon emissions by 60%, equal to cutting the entire countries' annual emissions by 1%:

https://corporate.arcelormittal.com/...ent-of-ontario


National Steel car is a long standing employer, and as I mentioned is the largest rail car manufacturer in North America:



AIM Recycling has a spotty environmental record, to say the least, and is not exactly a beloved local business:

https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilto...pollution.html

All of this is serviced by Nikola Tesla Boulevard, an elevated expressway which most people are completely oblivious to existing. Most think the Gardiner Expressway in Toronto is the only elevated expressway in the province, but that's not the case:



The whole area is a fascinating area urbanistically.
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  #3253  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 3:38 PM
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like chicago, milwaukee saved the vast majority of its lakefront from industry, which was moved inland, primarily in the large central vallley created by the menomonee river (a main tributary of the milwaukee river).

but there are a couple of waterfront smokestacks in the area.



here's the oak creek coal-fired power plant in the far south burbs of milwaukee, roughly 14 miles south of downtown..

the older south half of the plant is currently in the process of being decommisioned.

the more modern north half (built in 2010) apparently burns the coal a lot more cleanly and will remain operational for the time being.


source: https://www.wpr.org/wisconsins-large...drop-coal-2035




and the jones island water reclamation facility on the south bank of the mouth of the milwaukee river also has a large smokestack.


source: https://www.mmsd.com/about-us/news/m...elated-actions
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  #3254  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2023, 9:04 PM
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Buffalonians were awakened by a 3.8 magnitude earthquake early this morning. I live 10 miles from the epicenter in West Seneca, and it shook my house and woke me up this morning.
https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthqua...emap/intensity

Was it felt in any other cities?

An article last year highlighted an increasing number of quakes in the Great Lakes area.

https://www.greatlakesnow.org/2022/0...s-earthquakes/

How have other cities in the region been doing? Have other cities had earthquakes large enough to feel in recent memory, or a history of quakes.

Last edited by benp; Feb 7, 2023 at 1:10 PM.
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  #3255  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2023, 12:10 AM
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Buffalonians?

Wow, that's a new one for me. That doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, does it. I think I'd just prefer to be called Buffaloes TBH.
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  #3256  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2023, 2:06 AM
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Originally Posted by benp View Post

How have other cities in the region doing? Have other cities had earthquakes large enough to feel in recent memory, or a history of quakes.


The New Madrid and Wabash Valley faults can shake Chicago a little, but over all they’re quite rare. Though the rocks in this part of the Midwest transmit waves further than in other parts of the U.S.

There’s the possibility of an earthquake similar to the one that happened in Turkey affecting Memphis every 1000 years. St. Louis is somewhat in range.




Quote:
A 3.8 magnitude is considered a minor earthquake.

Rick Polad, an earth science instructor at Aurora University, and Rod Allen, a St. Charles-based geologist, said the intensity of Wednesday's quake is about as strong as northeastern Illinois should expect to experience.

"Since 1909, there have only been five earthquakes of this magnitude in Illinois, period," Polad said. "We have a number of small fracture zones extending throughout Illinois, and this may be a new one we didn't know about."

A 5.2-magnitude earthquake struck near West Salem in southern Illinois on April 18, 2008. That quake was the worst to hit the state since 1968, the USGS said.
https://www.shawlocal.com/2010/02/11...l-see/a8kptll/

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  #3257  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2023, 2:44 AM
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I think it was the 2008 earthquake that shook me from bed. i was living in a narrow shotgun two-flat in st. louis city and awoke to a sloppy feeling sway and the timbers above my head squeaking on the dense red brick.

feel like this is supposed to be a wilco song.
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  #3258  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2023, 2:36 PM
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A 5.2-magnitude earthquake struck near West Salem in southern Illinois on April 18, 2008. That quake was the worst to hit the state since 1968, the USGS said.
i think that was the one that woke me up in the midddle of the night.

i was living on the 33rd floor of marina city at the time and the quake got the building swaying enough to knock a large stainless steel pasta pot precariously stacked on my drying rack off onto the floor with a loud "BANG".

i also recall hearing the concrete of the building creaking a bit, but that also happened during high wind storms too, so it wasn't too concerning.

i didn't even realize that it was a quake down in southern IL that caused those things until i read the news the following morning.



in any event, the great lakes region is not at high risk for severe quakes.


source: https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/20...mic-hazard-map
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Feb 7, 2023 at 2:51 PM.
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  #3259  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2023, 3:58 PM
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^I remember that one as well. . . I heard a loud snap and woke up feeling like the bed was sort of bouncing. . . I still have a crack on the wall of my unit because of that earthquake. . . I haven't painted over it specifically to remind me of that event. . .

. . .
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  #3260  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2023, 8:39 PM
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We had a small earthquake in Michigan one of my last years there (2014 I think), maybe in the 3’s? I was at a brain tumor fundraising walk for my brother in SE Michigan and I thought it was just a big truck driving by or something.

Out here in OR on the other hand, the potential for a Cascadia Subuction Zone quake used to keep me up at night while I was living in an unreinforced masonry building downtown. Suffice to say I got out of there shortly after my first year’s lease was up. The thought of how devastated this region will be when that fault finally gives is absolutely horrific.

The Great Lakes region is very blessed in terms of its relatively low incidence of natural disasters.
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