Metro Vancouver condo builder accountability

[joeyiltlibw]

I bought a junior 2 bedroom condo in Starling Lumina Brentwood in 2017. Suppose to be 642 sq ft . To my horror in a recent walk thru , I discover an area of 3ft x 6.5 ft removed from the second bedroom. The 3 ft x 6.5 ft is now used to house gas meter outside of unit. The second smaller bedroom now becomes an odd shaped den , can no longer function as bedroom . The developer lawyer said this is within the contract variant allowance of 8 %. The location of the gas meter is never meant to be outside of my unit Plan A5 . If gas meter location originally meant to be outside of my unit ; it should have been indicated in the master floor plate when I purchased. But this is not shown in the master floor plate.
. My unit now only 622 sf, a very noticeable alteration of floor plan . Wonder what your thoughts are if you purchase a condo of 642 sf and now become 622 sf ..... even smaller than their 1 bedroom and den design (Plan A 9 )which is 632 sf?
Had I known this to happen , I would have bought the 1 bedroom and den unit ( plan A 9 ) much cheaper by $30000.
Do you think builder should be allowed to be protected by the construction variance clause?

[VarBreStr18]

Originally Posted by joeyiltlibw

I bought a junior 2 bedroom condo in Starling Lumina Brentwood in 2017. Suppose to be 642 sq ft . To my horror in a recent walk thru , I discover an area of 3ft x 6.5 ft removed from the second bedroom. The 3 ft x 6.5 ft is now used to house gas meter outside of unit. The second smaller bedroom now becomes an odd shaped den , can no longer function as bedroom . The developer lawyer said this is within the contract variant allowance of 8 %. The location of the gas meter is never meant to be outside of my unit Plan A5 . If gas meter location originally meant to be outside of my unit ; it should have been indicated in the master floor plate when I purchased. But this is not shown in the master floor plate.
. My unit now only 622 sf, a very noticeable alteration of floor plan . Wonder what your thoughts are if you purchase a condo of 642 sf and now become 622 sf ..... even smaller than their 1 bedroom and den design (Plan A 9 )which is 632 sf?
Had I known this to happen , I would have bought the 1 bedroom and den unit ( plan A 9 ) much cheaper by $30000.
Do you think builder should be allowed to be protected by the construction variance clause?

Why such huge price difference?

[SonyPS5]

Seems you're not alone. Pic: https://ibb.co/QDTLgRY

[joeyiltlibw]

Originally Posted by VarBreStr18

Why such huge price difference?

I will explain why developer has shady practice.

The A5 plan is marketed as Junior 2 bedroom category and fetch a higher starting price because it is considered 2 bedroom ( even though the second bedroom has no window and really is a larger den). Its staring price is already higher than a 1 bedroom and den category by $10000.

I have sq footage loss of 19.5 sf x $1070 per sf = $20865
because they use the area to house gas meter outside of my unit.

Because of the square footage loss, my A5 plan automatically downgraded as 1 bedroom and den category.... simply because the second bedroom can no longer function as a bedroom

Simply put square footage loss plus category downgrade costs me >$30000

This is like highway robbery without builder being held accountable.

[joeyiltlibw]

To millions of condo owners out there, has anyone ever experienced a drastic reduction in size of a single room discovered only at walk through stage?

Is this a new industry standard for this particular builder ? This builder allowed to change a size of a single room without even discussed with buyer, citing it is required during construction.

I am new at condo buying . Will you not be upset if this happens to your first condo and just quietly accept that this is within construction variance?

[nds88]

Check your disclosure statement and run this by your lawyer. Perhaps the people below/above you that were also affected would like to gang up. Send them a note or if you can, knock on their door to establish communication.

[SonyPS5]

Just wondering, which construction company did Thind use for the project you bought in?

[jlousa]

Your disclosure statement will tell you that the floorplans are subject to change that that there can be a variance in sqftage within a certain %. You don't have much recourse unless you can prove that the developer knew without a doubt that the unit was going to be not like presented at time of sale and that the changes didn't happen afterwards. You're best option is to seek legal counsel and perhaps work with the builder and if you can't reach a suitable compromise ask for your deposit in full back and consider this a lesson learned when buying presales.

[joeyiltlibw]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Your disclosure statement will tell you that the floorplans are subject to change that that there can be a variance in sqftage within a certain %. You don't have much recourse unless you can prove that the developer knew without a doubt that the unit was going to be not like presented at time of sale and that the changes didn't happen afterwards. You're best option is to seek legal counsel and perhaps work with the builder and if you can't reach a suitable compromise ask for your deposit in full back and consider this a lesson learned when buying presales.

Indeed all contractual clause are for the protection of the builder.

Here is their lawyer reply " the size of the unit is well within the discrepancy permitted by the contract and the change was caused by a requirement of construction.....". I cannot afford to hire a lawyer. They may be able to get away from legal responsibility by technical wording. But they lack ethical and moral integrity. At the end of the day they took $30000 from a first time buyer by deceit. They can well be laughing all the way to the bank. Takes me 5+ years to save $30000. This $30000 is tied to a mortgage with 25 years amortization.

They tarnish some legitimate builders in the construction business.

Their excuse of floor plan change due to " a requirment of construction " is totally distorted. Reason for floor plan change is because they need to put a gas meter outside of my unit during the course of constuction. Why the hell do they not know they need to put gas meter in at the planning stage? This is an essential part of any building, should they not be in the preconstruction master floor plan? There is no indication of location of gas meter in the master floor plate. That is why I was tricked into buying the A5 unit. There must be experienced decent builders out there who read this. Please help me.

At the end of they day , I may not be able to fight them But I do want my story be known by everybody who read this forum. So that other people will not be tricked by this deceitful, greedy builder. In fact every social media will have my story. There are at least 4 other owners affected by this, but I don't know them.

The builder is Thind.ca But they have since changed their company name to
Beta View Homes LTD. Their CEO is ____ Thind.

[nds88]

Of course their lawyer is not going to take any responsibility. If you can't afford a lawyer, I know there are some possible free legal services to explore. Check with UBC Law, they might be able to help.

[joeyiltlibw]

Originally Posted by nds88

Of course their lawyer is not going to take any responsibility. If you can't afford a lawyer, I know there are some possible free legal services to explore. Check with UBC Law, they might be able to help.

thanks for your tip. I will definitely check it out.

[joeyiltlibw]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Your disclosure statement will tell you that the floorplans are subject to change that that there can be a variance in sqftage within a certain %. You don't have much recourse unless you can prove that the developer knew without a doubt that the unit was going to be not like presented at time of sale and that the changes didn't happen afterwards. You're best option is to seek legal counsel and perhaps work with the builder and if you can't reach a suitable compromise ask for your deposit in full back and consider this a lesson learned when buying presales.

Lots of people buy presales and they never have such serious problem. In fact I am the last one of my friends to buy a condo, and they all fine. Buying presale is not a problem.... its is whom you buy from. In this case never buy from Beta Homes Ltd, formerly Thind development.

In fact had I bought the 1 bedroom and den unit , plan A9, I would not be impacted. I willingly bought the Junior 2 bedroom category and fork out $10000 in category jump because I was in their showroom which has the A5 plan on display, which show a perfectly shaped second smaller bedroom. I was willing to do that because I plan to rent out the smaller bedroom to a student as a mortgage helper. I put my trust in this developer and now burnt. They selectively target plan A5 alone to build their gas meter.
This is unfair practice it itself. Why should only 1 unit out of the 9 on the same floor be affected and not compensated; especially because they are incompetent enough not have location of gas meter planned out in the preconstuction stage. I have to question the competency of this builder right from the start.

I dont want to discredit all presales because of this builder. Its name is Beta Homes Ltd, formerly Thind Development.

[jlousa]

I would proceed very carefully with your posts. You are treading on slander. It is not usual for floorplans to change after initial sales. The developer might have had other plans for the gas meters but was unable to located them in their original location. Its very common that gaslines/hydro/communications entry points get changed after working with the utilities. What you are doing it making assumptions and claiming the developer purposefully deceived you. Any presale is a risk period. It normally works out but there are countless cases of complaints against bigger known developers as well. Seek legal advice if you feel unfairly treated and can't find a compromise with the builder.

[joeyiltlibw]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I would proceed very carefully with your posts. You are treading on slander. It is not usual for floorplans to change after initial sales. The developer might have had other plans for the gas meters but was unable to located them in their original location. Its very common that gaslines/hydro/communications entry points get changed after working with the utilities. What you are doing it making assumptions and claiming the developer purposefully deceived you. Any presale is a risk period. It normally works out but there are countless cases of complaints against bigger known developers as well. Seek legal advice if you feel unfairly treated and can't find a compromise with the builder.

But they selectively target i unit out of the 9 on the same floor. Should they not be accountable and offer fair compensation to unit affected?

[joeyiltlibw]

Originally Posted by SonyPS5

Just wondering, which construction company did Thind use for the project you bought in?

Beta View Homes Ltd

[joeyiltlibw]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I would proceed very carefully with your posts. You are treading on slander. It is not usual for floorplans to change after initial sales. The developer might have had other plans for the gas meters but was unable to located them in their original location. Its very common that gaslines/hydro/communications entry points get changed after working with the utilities. What you are doing it making assumptions and claiming the developer purposefully deceived you. Any presale is a risk period. It normally works out but there are countless cases of complaints against bigger known developers as well. Seek legal advice if you feel unfairly treated and can't find a compromise with the builder.

What slander? All I know they took $30000 from Plan A5 buyers and come up with some lame excuse.... contruction requirement.
If I buy anything from Amazon and not pleased with it, always returnable with in reason. Why is this builder took away $30000 without the least bit of accountability. The victim has to absolutely no say when they hide behind their contractual variant clause.

[joeyiltlibw]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I would proceed very carefully with your posts. You are treading on slander. It is not usual for floorplans to change after initial sales. The developer might have had other plans for the gas meters but was unable to located them in their original location. Its very common that gaslines/hydro/communications entry points get changed after working with the utilities. What you are doing it making assumptions and claiming the developer purposefully deceived you. Any presale is a risk period. It normally works out but there are countless cases of complaints against bigger known developers as well. Seek legal advice if you feel unfairly treated and can't find a compromise with the builder.

We are the victim , don' t us victim again. We just want to hold this builder be accountable. The all too powerful construction variant clause seems to be "cover all sins." Where is the justice for the buyer? While it may be "common for builder relocate gas meter from its original position", but knowing this change in location significantly impact 1 unit of the 9 units on the same floor, should they not at least offer some kind of compensation. Instead callously wait for buyer to discover at walk through stage? The professional accountable builder should let buyer know, let buyer make decision whether to preceed with contract. Failure to do so can only be described as intention to deceit.

[joeyiltlibw]

Originally Posted by joeyiltlibw

I bought a junior 2 bedroom condo in Starling Lumina Brentwood in 2017. Suppose to be 642 sq ft . To my horror in a recent walk thru , I discover an area of 3ft x 6.5 ft removed from the second bedroom. The 3 ft x 6.5 ft is now used to house gas meter outside of unit. The second smaller bedroom now becomes an odd shaped den , can no longer function as bedroom . The developer lawyer said this is within the contract variant allowance of 8 %. The location of the gas meter is never meant to be outside of my unit Plan A5 . If gas meter location originally meant to be outside of my unit ; it should have been indicated in the master floor plate when I purchased. But this is not shown in the master floor plate.
. My unit now only 622 sf, a very noticeable alteration of floor plan . Wonder what your thoughts are if you purchase a condo of 642 sf and now become 622 sf ..... even smaller than their 1 bedroom and den design (Plan A 9 )which is 632 sf?
Had I known this to happen , I would have bought the 1 bedroom and den unit ( plan A 9 ) much cheaper by $30000.
Do you think builder should be allowed to be protected by the construction variance clause?

Here is my story , but this can potentially happen to you when you buy your next presale . Do your due diligence to research about builder reputation . If not not good comments , listen to your inner voice. No such thing as give a builder “ benefit of doubt “ when it comes to 100 and thousands dollar of your hard earned money.

[bluefox]

As jlousa has thoroughly covered, these are the potential pitfalls of doing condo presale. It's not about accountability in the end and if it was (because the builder has broken the contract or purposefully misled you in some form as stated), you'd have a leg to stand on. From what you've said the usable area of your suite has only decreased 3% which is within the variance allowed the developer. It's in your contract of purchase and the developer has it in their disclosure statements before you sign.

While I'm sure most of us empathize with your situation, you aren't going to find much sympathy on here, because at the end of the day you still own something that will appreciate in value regardless of your feelings toward the developer.

Most importantly: I strongly suggest that if you are considering legal action against the builder, you stop posting on a public forum.

[2009]

That sucks but honestly you shouldn't be relying on illegally renting out a closet to make the mortgage payments. They may market it as a 2 bedroom but if it doesn't have a window or second way of egress and it's own heat than it's not legally meant to be slept in regularly

It's a risk to buy presale, there are plenty of actual 2 bedroom condos for sale in the same price range in existing buildings if you really needed a room to rent. A 3.2% sq footage variance isn't unheard of

You have some options- talk to a lawyer and try to get your deposit back, live with it as is and pick up some extra work, rent out the entire unit, or sell it (and take a small hit) and buy something with a real 2nd bedroom. You may be upset but it isn't the end of the world