Hamilton's B-Line LRT construction - Page 10

TheHonestMaple · #**181** Posted **Mar 28, 2023, 5:47 PM**

Thought this was interesting.... the location where the future LRT maintenance yard will be was once a railway roundhouse. Apparently it was there until 1991, I had no idea.

spaghettisam · #**182** Posted **Mar 29, 2023, 10:53 PM**

Huge news brought to us by the great Joey Coleman...priority networks all getting boosted post-LRT. The assets (busses) currently being used on King will be allocated elsewhere making for a very good-looking rapid bus network. Exciting news.

https://t.co/1IwpfBQ7gM

(click on the link below my comments and click the middle pdf in the pop up to find the pdf I got this image from)

RaginRonic · #**183** Posted **Mar 30, 2023, 1:12 AM**

I have the whole city map of what HSR would look like when LRT is finally operating, and there's a LOT of routes that would be overhauled/expanded.

But it does indicate that the Cooke Transit Terminal on Macnab St. South would be eliminated, UNLESS is became the primary building for things like LRT/bus schedule displays.

The buses with 'UPPER' in their names, minus UPPER JAMES, would all see northward expansion to the West Harbour GO Train station.

Speaking of UPPER JAMES, it would be re-routed to turn around at the Pier 8 Waterfront, and would go around Victoria & Wellington before, in an interesting change, go up and down the Claremont Access for direct entry to/exit from Upper James St.

The current CANNON bus would be re-routed 1 street south, and become the WILSON bus.

And the ANCASTER bus would change to ANCASTER/WILSON, and would only travel along Wilson St. Ancaster, with it's northern point being the West Harbour GO, and it's southern point being located at the Ancaster Fairgrounds. Streets in Ancaster such as Jerseyville Rd. would become 'MyRide' flex route stops.

As well, the RYMAL bus would have it's western and eastern ends adjusted, to where the RYMAL would start at the Meadowlands Terminal, and wind it's way south through the Meadowlands neighborhood, before turning on Garner Rd. East, while on it's eastern end, would take the bus through the southeast portions of Upper Stoney Creek, after getting there via the Upper Red Hill Parkway, and would stop slightly east of Rymal/Upper Centennial.

If you guys can get a hold of that map from https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings...umentId=356085 , on Page 14 of this document, you can all see the rest for yourselves.

=)

ShavedParmesanCheese · #**184** Posted **Mar 30, 2023, 1:55 AM**

So much to discuss, it's difficult to cover concisely. Most exciting!!

Interesting to see that while most routes either change number or disappear entirely, the 2 persists! Mostly unaltered, just having the terminals change - good news for the song.

matt602 · #**185** Posted **Mar 30, 2023, 9:54 AM**

Yeah I'm really excited to see what our public transit network is gonna look like after LRT is built. Up to now I expected the LRT was just kinda gonna be bolted onto the existing HSR bus network which probably would have worked terribly but this new rapid bus network is just perfect for future growth. I hope they get the service frequencies right as well since that'll be key to getting people to use the new express routes. The HSR has done a terrible job of that so far with the A-Line route until only the last couple years.

TheHonestMaple · #**186** Posted **Mar 30, 2023, 12:19 PM**

I wonder what happens to the MacNab Street Bus Terminal.

TheRitsman · #**187** Posted **Mar 30, 2023, 2:27 PM**

"Surplus" apparently according to one of the reports. Likely a park or city housing.

TheHonestMaple · #**188** Posted **Mar 30, 2023, 2:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

"Surplus" apparently according to one of the reports. Likely a park or city housing.

Interesting. That would be a really bad spot for a park in my opinion. You'd probably get serious loitering issues like John Rebecca.

Selling it off for residential development would probably make the most sense. Prime spot for probably two condo towers, right on the transit corridor. Good opportunity for the city to make some quick cash.

TheRitsman · #**189** Posted **Mar 30, 2023, 11:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

Interesting. That would be a really bad spot for a park in my opinion. You'd probably get serious loitering issues like John Rebecca.

Selling it off for residential development would probably make the most sense. Prime spot for probably two condo towers, right on the transit corridor. Good opportunity for the city to make some quick cash.

Don't forget it will feel a lot different around there with LRT. It won't be as hostile to pedestrians and could even include restaurants and cafes or something. That horrific stretch along King St will be much nicer. Speaking to staff about the project today, the LRT plan today is much better than it was 3 years ago.

TheHonestMaple · #**190** Posted **Mar 30, 2023, 11:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

Don't forget it will feel a lot different around there with LRT. It won't be as hostile to pedestrians and could even include restaurants and cafes or something. That horrific stretch along King St will be much nicer. Speaking to staff about the project today, the LRT plan today is much better than it was 3 years ago.

I was actually just thinking about this today. I'm guessing city stafff, including HSR, have already seen the new LRT plan? I was thinking that because in order to come up with that bus map, they must know more details about stations, frequency of service, etc, right?

TheRitsman · #**191** Posted **Mar 31, 2023, 12:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I was actually just thinking about this today. I'm guessing city stafff, including HSR, have already seen the new LRT plan? I was thinking that because in order to come up with that bus map, they must know more details about stations, frequency of service, etc, right?

Yes they have a much updated working copy that is apparently much, much better than previous designs. The last detailed view we have is the 2017 environment assessment which shows the design plates as engineering documents, but since then the plan has actually changed significantly and there is a lot better integration of other transit services and other mobility services like Hamilton Bike Share (which I like to heard as a member of the Board of Directors).

I'm excited to see the updated plans, and I'm curious how much we'll get to see in the May update.

TheHonestMaple · #**192** Posted **Mar 31, 2023, 2:34 AM**

Great news.

I'm really excited to see how the maintenance yard has evolved, and also the 403 bridge where the aligned switched from Main to King. I think there would be a great opportunity there to do something special, a landmark bridge.

I'm also curious to see exactly how they're handling the car lanes throughout the whole line. Will it be the same as the 2017 version, or something better.

This whole project is so damn exciting and I just want to learn more. A true city building project that we get to witness in real time.

TheRitsman · #**193** Posted **Mar 31, 2023, 3:05 PM**

https://twitter.com/WerkHCN/status/1...bQ0gCMcdQ&s=19

"Mount Clr John-Paul Danko says during the LRT subcommittee, the design of Ham's LRT will be "significantly" different "and for the better" than when it was first realized. #HamOnt"

https://twitter.com/WerkHCN/status/1...2IxkLWg3g&s=19

"Ham GM Planning Jason Thorne says a preliminary design of LRT may be available to public by end of May. #HamOnt"

LikeHamilton · #**194** Posted **Mar 31, 2023, 8:12 PM**

I am interested in seeing the "significantly" different "and for the better" LRT. I had put in a suggestion for the LRT route to change at Dundurn back in early 2017.

It would turn in behind Fortino’s by the edge of Cathedral Park and down into the edge CPR track right away. Go under Main Street by and edge of the CPR tracks behind Frid Street and by the maintenance yard with a new stop at MIP. Then through MIP following the route that the cars would take going from the maintenance yard.

I know MIP was looking to build a parking garage that then could be part of the station with a close proximity to the 403. The cost savings would come from not building the large bridge across the 403 from King to Main Street. There would not be a loss of any stations and a new one added at MIP. Lost time for a slight increase in distance would be made up by the track running in an area that has no traffic or pedestrians (beside the CPR tracks) that could travel at a higher rate of speed. Other buses like the Locke, Aberdeen and GO bus could stop at the new station. The cost from the new station back to Main Street should be the same as it is already in the budget.

I did talk to the engineers at the time with Metrolinx and they thought it was doable, but it was turned down by MIP as their large tenant, CanmetMATERIALS did not want the vibrations of the LRT cars going by to affect the testing lab inside the building.

I await the changes.

TheHonestMaple · #**195** Posted **Mar 31, 2023, 9:21 PM**

It's an interesting idea, but I feel like the turns would cause the train to slow down way too much. On the bridge over the 403 the train will be able to achieve full speed for quite a distance. I also feel like the bridge costs are overstated.

TheRitsman · #**196** Posted **Mar 31, 2023, 9:24 PM**

I'd actually like to see the LRT travel across the 403 where the King St bridge exists, with a stop beside the Food basics plaza as the "Westdale" stop then continues down Paradise Rd.

Innsertnamehere · #**197** Posted **Apr 1, 2023, 3:03 PM**

I put a bit of thought into some potential improvements to the alignment, and I think this may be a good one which may actually save costs or at least be generally comparable:

Orange = Existing Alignment, including the orange hatched area which will be the MSF.

Red = new grade separated alignment

Basically instead of a huge bridge over the 403 and Cathedral Park, as well as rebuilding the Longwood Road bridge, it would have a smaller bridge starting west of Longwood Road. a new underpass underneath Longwood road with a grade seperated stop better serving the McMaster Innovation Park would then replace the currently planned Longwood Rd Station, before the line ran along the 403 to an underpass underneath Main Street. Finally, it would run along the CP corridor beside Cathedral Park instead of through it, before rising and meeting King St at grade like currently planned.

There is probably a similar amount of structure, if not less structure, involved, and it would allow the LRT to dodge 3 stoplights it'll have to navigate on it's current alignment. Would make travel times on the core segment of the LRT, between McMaster and Downtown, much quicker. Plus the connecting track to the MSF would be shorter, runing behind the McMaster Innovation Park instead, and allowing the Longwood Rd bridge to not have to be completely rebuilt to support LRT tracks.

Fruitloops · #**198** Posted **Apr 1, 2023, 3:56 PM**

I wish this was already under way because I fear we are going to get a nasty surprise vis a vis new funding vs current cost. Im pretty sure the price has gone up a wee bit.

TheHonestMaple · #**199** Posted **Apr 1, 2023, 4:35 PM**

Personally I am strongly against any plan that involves sharp 90 degree turns like that. If you've been on the ION LRT in Waterloo you know any points where it makes turns like that are excruciatingly slow. There's a handful of 90 degree turns in downtown Waterloo and downtown Kitchener. It can actually be kinda frustrating being on it when it makes turns because you feel like you can walk faster. LRTs only make sense when the route is straight, because otherwise it's basically a streetcar.

The speed of the ION LRT is actually a major complaint among riders, and i'm sure Metrolinx took some lessons from that system and improved it for Finch/Mississauga and now Hamilton. I think that is actually one thing the Hamilton LRT alignment gets right - it's a straight shot from end to end.

Crapht · #**200** Posted **Apr 1, 2023, 5:12 PM**

Interesting stuff from everyone. I do however believe there would be some issue with that stretch along the 403 as that engineered slope and it’s challenges might eat up any cost savings. Idk.
Personally I think the Longwood rd bridge is the better option to create a landmark bridge. It could be something truly special. It’s also abnormally high for any overpass along the 400 series highways. The new bridge over Cathedral Park and the 403 will probably be pretty standard but Longwood would stand alone as a design beacon.