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View Poll Results: Is SEPTA doing a great job in regards to bus, subway, and commuter rail overall??????
YES 54 47.79%
NO 59 52.21%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1881  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2023, 6:48 PM
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In related news, I posted this news story in the interesting transportation things thread this monin.
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  #1882  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 3:37 AM
wanderer34 wanderer34 is offline
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I'm a little confused by this. Maybe things are different where I'm from (eastern Canada) but here we view it as a negative when a national official like a prime minister or other government minister uses their position to show favoritism to their local region. We often use the term "pork barrel politics" which is considered a form of soft corruption. Not hard (illegal) corruption but still undesirable. The complaint is that federal governments should be representing all parts of the country equally. Basically making impartial decisions based on the merits of a project and local need without politicians letting their personal connection to a place influence them.

But you seem like you're complaining that Biden didn't do that?
I figure that Canada is a little different when it comes to politics in that the House of Commons PMs is basically an electable position while the Senate is an appointed position. There's corruption in both America and Canada, it's just that in America, it's a much bigger country than Canada and corruption is much more magnified in the States than in Canada.

It wouldn't surprise me if Harper did something for Calgary & the rest of Alberta the way somebody like the Trudeaus do for Quebec, and to a certain extent, French Canadians outside of Quebec, and other politicians like Pearson & Diefenbarker had done for Ontario. It's how you get elected and I don't understand how you can do absolutely nothing for your city and state/province and get elected. I don't really see it as corruption, per se, but the fact that constituents in your own backyard have to suffer and practically get nothing

It's not the job of prime ministers to only do just for their respective alone, that's the responsibility of the provincial prime ministers to vouch for their provinces, the PMs for their ridings, and finally, the mayors of their cities to vouch for proper funding depending on how big their cities are. The prime minister represents Canada, and I notice that the biggest pushback from Trudeau comes mainly from the Prairie Provinces, especially Alberta.

I understand Canada does things different than America and that's your system, but I'd be even more disappointed in Biden if he couldn't do something for the small state of DE. If he does nothing of merit for PA, you can take the title away of "PA's third senator" away & just call him a entrenched political hack who had the privilege of holding a US Senate office for 36 years before being elected as Vice President w/ Obama. The fact that there's very little action in Biden's "other state" of PA as well of Buttigieg doesn't reflect well on both men.

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Take the heat for what though? The previous administrations loosening of safety regulations? The decades long lobby against sensible hazmat and crew/precision railroading regulations pulled off by the private freight railroad corporations at the expense of public safety? The conditions, deferred maintenance to rolling stock, lack of safety equipment and lack of crew that allowed a toxic derailment in which the private company purposefully released toxic gas over a small town and then subsequently proceeded to quickly bury the the toxic sludge so they could reopen the line with the only obvious concern being profit and Wall St? That's Biden's fault? That's Buttigieg's fault? That's the EPA's fault? Buttigieg should have shown up with a magic wand that removed greed as the primary motive out of the equation? And Biden is "inept" because.... why exactly? What was he supposed to do exactly? If his Ukraine trip wasn't right in the middle of it should there have been a visit like is customary with tornados/hurricanes/earthquakes and other natural disasters or all too frequent mass shootings? Sure, I guess. But it's undeniable the local trumper base in the area was going to try to make it, as they already have, some cynical political issue to make the administration look incompetent for doing just as much or more than any reasonable person would acknowledge would have been done under previous administrations or the last disgrace of a presidency.
It's Biden's mess, whether he wants to blame Trump of not, it happened under Biden's watch. It's going to be funny seeing MA, CT, NY (birth state), NJ, PA, MD, IL, MN, & especially CA lose districts, and maybe this time around OH & MI may hold on for 2030 since both states have lost too much in political power and the reason why I use the term funny is only because when you have high taxes, high real estate prices, and so many regulations you cannot run a business, people vote with their feet meaning that people move out of their old states and into states with less regulation and less taxes, and it looks like FL, TX, and maybe TN, SC, ID, and UT are winning because hose states continue to post double digit growth while the blue states are just declining.

It's also sad in a way, because PA needs more congressmen due to the fact that we have a growing Latino and Asian population. I'd love to see a Latino congressman come out of PA, whether it be from Philadelphia or the Lehigh Valley, but the old way of running PA is going to cost Democrats a lot of valuable votes from those two demographic, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Latino and Asian Republicans in the future.

David Oh (whom I don't really like) is a perfect example of an Asian Republican, and as for Latinos, Michael Rivera of the Berks County Board of Commissioners, & Lisa Colon, Controller of Lancaster County, are just a good example of Latino Republicans in PA.

Whether it's Norfolk Southern's fault (which it is) or Biden's or Buttigieg's fault, the point of the matter is that regardless of whether it's a liberal base or a conservative base, you have to take into account the destruction of wildlife and ecology in the OH/PA border along East Palestine, as well as the contamination of drinking water, which will affect that area, which is the much bigger issue than just the derailment.

I'm pointing the finger at both the private (NS) & the public (Biden and Buttigieg for not taking some accountability by just showing up). It also seems like you're treating the people of East Palestine as all rabid MAGA supporters, when even in those areas, you do have Dem supporters, and because of the inaction by the federal gov't, even those Dem supporters have been let down by this administration. It's a bad look for Biden/Buttigieg and blaming Trump, who's officially out of office, isn't going to solve he problem of the derailment and the drastic contamination of the water in East Palestine and even that part of PA.

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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
In regards to your last couple sentences. The federal government doesn't maintain or use public funds to invest in a private railroads infrastructure. It doesn't work that way. If you want to improve rail infrastructure you either mandate through regulations a higher standard requirement or you nationalize the infrastructure and charge access fees to fund the maintenance/modernization/expansion of the rail infrastructure i.e. the road of many other first world peers.

Please stop with the "both parties do it" wishy washy bothsidesisms. It's just not accurate.
I just told you that it's the TSA's responsibility of maintaining the regulation for public, commuter, and private rail. Which part did you not read??? You sound too damn partisan, and too dumb not to read the entire post when I said that the TSA has to maintain the regulations and if the regulations are too little, since Biden's now in power, and Buttigieg is the TSA Secretary, it was the responsibility of Buttigieg & Biden's agenda to follow up on that by adding more regulations if they felt that Trump's loosening of regulations wasn't going to help passenger and freight rail. In your world, it's as if Biden can do no wrong when he's done almost everything wrong but push the red missile button to Russia.

Five banks total have failed under this administration, plus inflation is rampant and the economy is worsening. It seems like you placed all your chips on Biden when it looks like those chips will soon be gone as the ball will land on the wrong color. It also seems like you though Biden was going to do a much better job on the economy than Trump, and I guess only the smart and prudent ones know how that's worked out.

I just want to know what Biden had really done for PA & his home state of DE? I may not live in the US anymore, but I do follow up from time to time, and I've listened to the French, Dutch, and Spanish media, and a lot of them aren't confident in Biden to really defeat Russia. In other words, it's buyers remorse from those countries, and Putin's just too strong, which should garner condemnation fro the International Court, but you wouldn't know it because you only rely on MSNBC & CNN for your news while I'm looking at different sources to assess how the US is running it's country.

I'd rather not drink the blue Kool Aid all the time and I don't even drink the red Kool Aid because even they can be biased, I'll just settle for a nice, tall, cold glass of water while both parties destroy themselves and point fingers at themselves and the "orange man". Have a nice economy & a nice country while you're at it, because I'm so tired of American politics in general!
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  #1883  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 3:55 AM
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Originally Posted by wanderer34 View Post
I figure that Canada is a little different when it comes to politics in that the House of Commons PMs is basically an electable position while the Senate is an appointed position. There's corruption in both America and Canada, it's just that in America, it's a much bigger country than Canada and corruption is much more magnified in the States than in Canada.

It wouldn't surprise me if Harper did something for Calgary & the rest of Alberta the way somebody like the Trudeaus do for Quebec, and to a certain extent, French Canadians outside of Quebec, and other politicians like Pearson & Diefenbarker had done for Ontario. It's how you get elected and I don't understand how you can do absolutely nothing for your city and state/province and get elected. I don't really see it as corruption, per se, but the fact that constituents in your own backyard have to suffer and practically get nothing

It's not the job of prime ministers to only do just for their respective alone, that's the responsibility of the provincial prime ministers to vouch for their provinces, the PMs for their ridings, and finally, the mayors of their cities to vouch for proper funding depending on how big their cities are. The prime minister represents Canada, and I notice that the biggest pushback from Trudeau comes mainly from the Prairie Provinces, especially Alberta.

I understand Canada does things different than America and that's your system, but I'd be even more disappointed in Biden if he couldn't do something for the small state of DE. If he does nothing of merit for PA, you can take the title away of "PA's third senator" away & just call him a entrenched political hack who had the privilege of holding a US Senate office for 36 years before being elected as Vice President w/ Obama. The fact that there's very little action in Biden's "other state" of PA as well of Buttigieg doesn't reflect well on both men.
Oh for sure, I wasn't suggesting it doesn't happen here. The fact that it does it precisely why I'm so familiar with the name and concept. It's just that it's always thought of as something negative here so I was surprised to hear someone criticize a politician for not doing it when I've only ever heard people complain when they do it.
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  #1884  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 4:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Oh for sure, I wasn't suggesting it doesn't happen here. The fact that it does it precisely why I'm so familiar with the name and concept. It's just that it's always thought of as something negative here so I was surprised to hear someone criticize a politician for not doing it when I've only ever heard people complain when they do it.
If Trudeau can't do something or anything for Quebeckers or French Canadians at least, I'd lose respect for him as a person. It's not Trudeau's job to just do for Quebeckers, that would be François Legault's job. Trudeau's job is to foment relationships with mainly America, Europe, and Asia through diplomatic treaties and agendas.

He's also an MP, as I've noticed, so he also needs to advocate for his riding (Papineau; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papine...oral_district)), and if he didn't, he'd be out of a job as MP, and eventually as PM.
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  #1885  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 7:42 PM
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So will KOP's loss be Roosevelt Boulevard Subway's gain?
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  #1886  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 8:12 PM
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Was the feasibility of expanding/extending the Manayunk/Norristown Regional Rail line into KOP ever looked at? It's just right across the river, and it would provide an actual one-seat ride to/from Center City as well. That coupled with SEPTAs hopeful 'Reimagining RR' with increased frequencies would make that a pretty worthwhile investment.

Or even what NJ Transit does at Princeton Junction Station to Princeton, make a branch line that shuttles from Norristown Transportation Center to KOP, with coordinating the schedule to allow immediate transfers to the arriving Manayunk/Norristown train.
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  #1887  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by wanderer34 View Post
If Trudeau can't do something or anything for Quebeckers or French Canadians at least, I'd lose respect for him as a person. It's not Trudeau's job to just do for Quebeckers, that would be François Legault's job. Trudeau's job is to foment relationships with mainly America, Europe, and Asia through diplomatic treaties and agendas.

He's also an MP, as I've noticed, so he also needs to advocate for his riding (Papineau; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papine...oral_district)), and if he didn't, he'd be out of a job as MP, and eventually as PM.
With our system, once an MP becomes part of the federal government, their role in the government is (supposed to be) impartial, acting on behalf of all parts of the country equally. It's seen as unfair for an MP to use their position as a government minister to grant favours for their local riding when most MPs don't have that ability. Especially since people in local ridings have little to no control over whether their MP becomes part of the government or remains a "back bencher" (an MP who doesn't have any official government portfolio) and many MPs aren't even part of the governing party. So yes, all MPs are supposed to advocate for their riding, but not by using their power as a government minister.

Plus, the "advocating for" is supposed to take the form of representing their constituents' perspective on national-level decisions rather than "giving things" to the riding. As in "people in my riding have x perspective on this national issue". Like, people in a rural wheat-farming riding would have a different perspective on say, agricultural trade policies than someone in a city. So the local MP voices those concerns on the people's behalf so the decision isn't made without considering how it affects them.
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  #1888  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 2:25 AM
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So will KOP's loss be Roosevelt Boulevard Subway's gain?
If SEPTA couldn't built a less complex elevated structure on the Purple Line from Norristown & Upper Darby to KOP, then how can SEPTA build a much more complex subway along the length of the Blvd?

SEPTA wanted to extend the BSL from Pattison (NRG) to the Navy Yard not too long ago but it was nothin more than talk and political fluff.

Cancellations like this make anybody have less faith in this joke of a transportation agency called SEPTA.

The last expansion in SEPTA's system was back in 1973 when the BSL was extended from Snyder to Pattison and maybe then was a perfect time to extend the BSL al the way to the Navy Yard, but it didn't happen for some strange reason.

Mind you, this was when Philadelphia was the 4th largest city in America at the time and there wasn't really an MSA or CSA used at the time, since people were more used to using just the city population than the metro area at the time.

Now, we're the sixth largest city, but the seventh largest MSA & the 9th largest CSA, with both the Miami & Atlanta MSAs & CSAs nipping at the heels of Philadelphia. Oh, how the mighty cities have fallen!!!

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Originally Posted by Broadcastthatboom View Post
Was the feasibility of expanding/extending the Manayunk/Norristown Regional Rail line into KOP ever looked at? It's just right across the river, and it would provide an actual one-seat ride to/from Center City as well. That coupled with SEPTAs hopeful 'Reimagining RR' with increased frequencies would make that a pretty worthwhile investment.

Or even what NJ Transit does at Princeton Junction Station to Princeton, make a branch line that shuttles from Norristown Transportation Center to KOP, with coordinating the schedule to allow immediate transfers to the arriving Manayunk/Norristown train.
I don't know of any commuter rail line that goes directly into KOP. Maybe into Valley Forge, but not KOP! The KOP extension was probable the best chance of introducing rail transit into KOP, even though some on here disagree that the KOP extension wasn't all that and a bag of chips, but that's what you get when you place your faith on such an inept mass transit agency like SEPTA!
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  #1889  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 7:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Broadcastthatboom View Post
Was the feasibility of expanding/extending the Manayunk/Norristown Regional Rail line into KOP ever looked at? It's just right across the river, and it would provide an actual one-seat ride to/from Center City as well. That coupled with SEPTAs hopeful 'Reimagining RR' with increased frequencies would make that a pretty worthwhile investment.

Or even what NJ Transit does at Princeton Junction Station to Princeton, make a branch line that shuttles from Norristown Transportation Center to KOP, with coordinating the schedule to allow immediate transfers to the arriving Manayunk/Norristown train.
Yes when the Schuylkill Valley Metro Project was drawn up in the early 2000s there was a proposed branch along a then just abandoned freight spur that terminated near the Mall. Unfortunately that ROW has since been built over so its not possible to do.
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  #1890  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by wanderer34 View Post
If SEPTA couldn't built a less complex elevated structure on the Purple Line from Norristown & Upper Darby to KOP, then how can SEPTA build a much more complex subway along the length of the Blvd?
The question was meant to imply that maybe someone woke up to the fact that for almost the same money, they could build a transit line with 10x the ridership of the KOP line, which would make it more attractive for federal funding. So it's not that they can't build the KOP line, it's that they can't build both, and the subway is more likely (although still not guaranteed) to get federal money.

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Originally Posted by wanderer34 View Post
The last expansion in SEPTA's system was back in 1973 when the BSL was extended from Snyder to Pattison and maybe then was a perfect time to extend the BSL al the way to the Navy Yard, but it didn't happen for some strange reason.
Because there was no reason to extend it to the Navy Yard at the time. Shipbuilding was way down, and it was only a few years away from being completely abandoned. It makes sense to extend it there now though, obviously. I'm hoping they do both the Roosevelt Boulevard Line and the extension to the Navy Yard as part of one package.
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  #1891  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 9:00 PM
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Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal View Post
The question was meant to imply that maybe someone woke up to the fact that for almost the same money, they could build a transit line with 10x the ridership of the KOP line, which would make it more attractive for federal funding. So it's not that they can't build the KOP line, it's that they can't build both, and the subway is more likely (although still not guaranteed) to get federal money.
The Blvd line extension from Erie to Park Casino would've been a better and more realistic line and it would be much more utilized since it's within the city, but making it a two-track subway would be ill advised only because you're talking about 14-15 miles of trackage (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Broa...36!3e0!5m1!1e1), meaning that you'd have a lot of stops along the Blvd which I won't name because it will take a lot of space on here, but a four-track subway along the Blvd is the best utilization of the route.

The best option would've been to really make the MFL the same as the BSL when it comes to rolling stock, track gauge, and even connectivity with the BSL, as well as creating an underground subway from 69th St to Neshaminy or Parx because the MFL as it is right now is very antiquated.

It's a good line which takes you W to 69th St and NE to Bridge-Pratt, but for these times, it's just very antiquated, especially today. A lot of cities like NYC and Boston tore down their elevated structures for subways so why didn't Philly do that for the MFL?

Also, since this is SEPTA that we're talking about, and not PTC, even though the Blvd line sounds more realistic, I wouldn't be surprised if SEPTA drops the ball on this one. There are a lot of commuter lines SEPTA could've revived such as the Bethlehem, the Reading Main Line, and even the West Chester Line that has yet to be revived. SEPTA hasn't even extended to Coatesville yet and I'm supposed to believe that SEPTA will make this line a reality.

Until somebody builds the first flying car, I'll believe it! In fact, I'm pretty sure that the flying car will happen much sooner than the Blvd line will even move some dirt!

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Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal View Post
Because there was no reason to extend it to the Navy Yard at the time. Shipbuilding was way down, and it was only a few years away from being completely abandoned. It makes sense to extend it there now though, obviously. I'm hoping they do both the Roosevelt Boulevard Line and the extension to the Navy Yard as part of one package.
If not the 1970's, it could've been done in the 1930's and especially the 1940's when the American economy was practically flush with cash and cities even as small as Rochester, NY had a functioning mass transit system, but I guess PTC preferably only extended as far as Snyder for some strange reason.

Other than the Navy Yard, it also made a lot of sense to extend the BSL that far due to the old JFK Stadium. It could be argued that JFK Stadium was maybe a better facility than Shibe Park or Franklin Field just due to the capacity alone (102K for football compared to 33K for Shibe Park & up to 60K-70K for Franklin Field), but professional football was practically at it's infancy and it wasn't yet considered a major sport until the late 1950's and officially dethroned baseball as America's favorite sport by the late 1960's.

However, the Eagles chose Shibe Park over JFK & later on, Franklin Field & maybe that's the reason why the BSL stayed truncated at Snyder until the Spectrum and the Vet got completed, making it possible for stations at Oregon & Pattison to open (should've also had another stop at Packer Ave, IMHO, since it's technically a major arterial street in Philadelphia), maybe because even though JFK had more capacity, Shibe and Franklin was practically within the dense city and it made it easier to attract fans as opposed to playing their games far away from the city center. Hence, the reason why PTC didn't extend to Pattison and the Navy Yard, despite the Navy Yard being a much better terminus over Snyder since the Navy Yard was still an active Navy Yard until the 2000s, I believe!
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  #1892  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2023, 5:13 AM
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SEPTA hopes installing high-tech vertical gates will deter turnstile jumpers

https://www.audacy.com/kywnewsradio/...are-jumpers-el



Quote:
The transit agency would add 16 full-length fare gates at 13th Street Station along the Market-Frankford Line and six at 34th Street Station. Turnstiles would be replaced with full-height barriers that glide open.

“The most common behavior with fare evasion is jumping over the turnstile. You simply couldn’t do that with the way that these gates are configured,” said SEPTA spokesperson Andrew Busch. “We want to test this technology out and see if it helps us with fare evasion.”
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  #1893  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 6:04 PM
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NBC 10 report on the RBL. Jay Arzu is featured in it.
Couple of things: the reporter calls it "an obscure idea", a characterization I do not agree with.
Also, he quotes a possible $10 billion price tag, something that also seems much higher than previous reports.
Also also - monorail?
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...3531222/?amp=1
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  #1894  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 7:08 PM
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Monorails are like catnip to tv people - the issue goes back decades. Because they don't know anything about trains or transit, the tantalizing "always pregnant with the future" shiny thing temptations are hard to resist.
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  #1895  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 7:34 PM
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Really exciting stuff! It's even rare to see metro extensions in NA nowadays let alone whole new lines.
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  #1896  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2023, 3:25 AM
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Passenger rail from Reading to Philadelphia one step closer to becoming a reality, but officials are cautiously optimistic

Nothing new, just confirming their application was submitted to the Corridor ID Program. They're "cautiously optimistic" which is good I guess.

Also really exciting to get the Roosevelt Blvd subway featured on NBC10 at 11. This thing really feels more possible than ever. It's a no brainer.

Looks like we also got mention in an editorial in the Inquirer.

SEPTA made the right decision to stop its suburban plans. Here’s how it can best serve riders going forward. | Editorial
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  #1897  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2023, 4:25 PM
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30th St Station Redevelopment

https://www.railwayage.com/passenger...treet-station/

Has there been any progress on the 30th Street station renovation? Have only seen concept pictures but not an actual plan. According to the timeline in this article it should be well underway, just weird to not have heard any updates for the project for the last 3 years.
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  #1898  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2023, 9:20 PM
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I liked this little tidbit in this article I found.

PA Leaders Focus on Infrastructure, Transportation During NLC Conference

Quote:
Brenner stressed in Pennsylvania, numerous projects have been implemented and some are currently being worked on which received federal funding through The American Rescue Plan. He noted there is a transportation project underway with PennDOT and the federal Department of Transportation set to affect Keystone State communities.

“A whole bunch of other folks that are working together to connect Phoenixville with the commuter rail system down there in southeastern Pennsylvania, that’s a big example,” Brenner observed.
“That’s one example of how ARPA dollars are making a difference right now.”
Seems to be real momentum for the Reading-Pottstown-Phoenixville rail connection, maybe I'm reading too much into it but it seems like this guy (Executive Director of the Pennsylvania Municipal League) thinks it will happen. Like I said, I think cancelling the KOP rail project is just the political pretext for this thing to happen. One of them had to die, so the other could live.


Another article on it from yesterday...

Despite the King of Prussia Rail Line Jumping the Tracks, Schuylkill River Train Project Chugs On
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  #1899  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2023, 9:27 PM
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https://www.railwayage.com/passenger...treet-station/

Has there been any progress on the 30th Street station renovation? Have only seen concept pictures but not an actual plan. According to the timeline in this article it should be well underway, just weird to not have heard any updates for the project for the last 3 years.
Gilbane and Plenary held a ULI event earlier this week on Tuesday to discuss the current state of affairs at 30th St Station. I wasn't able to attend, anyone else who went who could share some of what was said?
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  #1900  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2023, 2:08 PM
Skintreesnail Skintreesnail is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Thought this was an interesting take:

https://hiddencityphila.org/2023/03/...-connectivity/
Quote:
With the KOP project on hold, maybe it is time to take a new look at the former 9th Street Branch (aka the 9th Street El), recognize its potential to serve more commuters, more neighborhoods, more centers of employment than it was originally designed for, and the fact that the infrastructure is already built.The same could be said for rail lines running past other abandoned stations, but the 9th Street Branch is under SEPTA’s exclusive control, so there is no need to negotiate with Amtrak or the freight railroads.
I think the same idea has come up on this forum. While i think the Blvd subway would serve a lot of people and should definitely happen, I'm kinda torn between regional rail realizing its potential as more of a metro. Ideally both would happen, along with an extension to the navy yard, its just with limited funds what should get the priority? Also, not sure if this was ever discussed, but with the fox chase rr line cutting so close to the blvd, would it make more sense increasing frequency there and extending the el up bustleton and then the blvd?
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