Manitoba Highways

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Typically the project goes like this:

1 - build the detour routes for the project as net new roads
2 - remove the current roads
3 - build the interchange
4 - remove the detours

It is common for these grade separations to have slight changes in road alignment. Even if they don't the over road doesn't build an approach on top of an existing roadway.

I'm aware of how such projects are done--I live in a place where road projects are common. You guys make it sound like this stuff takes forever and that every interchange is at least $100 million. That's not the case elsewhere. MB needs a good dose of competition in the road construction sector. It'll force local companies to up their game and give taxpayers way more bang for their buck.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

I'm aware of how such projects are done--I live in a place where road projects are common. You guys make it sound like this stuff takes forever and that every interchange is at least $100 million. .

There are soil and water issues here that make costs very high.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

I'm aware of how such projects are done--I live in a place where road projects are common. You guys make it sound like this stuff takes forever and that every interchange is at least $100 million. That's not the case elsewhere. MB needs a good dose of competition in the road construction sector. It'll force local companies to up their game and give taxpayers way more bang for their buck.

Amen

[jmt18325]

https://www.merx.com/mbgov/manitobai...nts/0000058038

I mean, it's not like there isn't multiple bidders for every contract.

[Dengler Avenue]

Woohoo I'm finally done identifying potential corridors for a new 4-lane divided freeway between Falcon Lake, MB and Dinorwic, ON (while incorporating the 6 km "designed by M.T.O." from MB/ON border to ON-673).
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...j0&usp=sharing
I know that this is mostly not Manitoba, but I figure that this whole area is cottage countries for Winnipegers so that it will garner more attention here than in my own thread.
Have fun viewing it, and let me know your thoughts if you want!
Ps: East of Oxdrift, I've gotten lazy and stopped showing all the overpasses/underpasses.

I just have to be careful not to drown the news about current highway development in Manitoba.

[bomberjet]

Wow, nice work. Must've took you some time haha

I think you got it for the Manitoba part. North side through Falcon area. Maybe go on south side through West Hawk area. Either way it really doesn't see that difficult. Some rock and hills to deal with.

[Dengler Avenue]

Thanks, bomberjet.
Yea, I was surprised that I spent more time around Dryden (2 main options with another 11 alternatives) than around Lake of the Woods (3 main options).
For West Hawk, I will keep that in mind. (I'm probably taking a break from highway design today, though.)
Lol, now that you've mentioned rocks and hills, I hope that M.I.T. only brings in out-of-province contractors for that part. For anything west of Falcon Lake, really, it should try to get local ones to do the job.

[plrh]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Thanks, bomberjet.
Yea, I was surprised that I spent more time around Dryden (2 main options with another 11 alternatives) than around Lake of the Woods (3 main options).
For West Hawk, I will keep that in mind. (I'm probably taking a break from highway design today, though.)
Lol, now that you've mentioned rocks and hills, I hope that M.I.T. only brings in out-of-province contractors for that part. For anything west of Falcon Lake, really, it should try to get local ones to do the job.

I don't understand why people have such a hard-on for out of province contractors. Usually the contractor that gets the job, on straight highway projects, is the company with the closest gravel pits. Gravel trucking is the biggest part of those jobs. We regularly have out of province contractors bid on jobs and when they do win, they have a tough time here. Flatiron on 59/101 and Miller on Centreport. Potzus from Saskatchewan regularly bids on west man projects, but they are basically local. Any qualified company in the country is free to bid on whatever project they want, but if they can't get their price low enough then they won't get the work. The province doesn't just pick their favourite.

[bomberjet]

There's lots of local companies that could blast out the rock, crush it and place gravel.

On large projects, sometimes the GC has to bring in out of province crews because the local crews won't work with them.

Recent project I worked on, they had to bring in piling crews from literally all over the country.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by plrh

I don't understand why people have such a hard-on for out of province contractors. Usually the contractor that gets the job, on straight highway projects, is the company with the closest gravel pits. Gravel trucking is the biggest part of those jobs. We regularly have out of province contractors bid on jobs and when they do win, they have a tough time here. Flatiron on 59/101 and Miller on Centreport. Potzus from Saskatchewan regularly bids on west man projects, but they are basically local. Any qualified company in the country is free to bid on whatever project they want, but if they can't get their price low enough then they won't get the work. The province doesn't just pick their favourite.

Local companies do have an advantage of having local labour and knowledge of the geography, so they have an advantage there.

The problem with smaller provinces is that they don't have the specialized companies that can do really big jobs. There is a handful of those in the country and they are located in provinces where they can more reliably source work.

That being said, there is a finite supply of construction labour, even for out-of-province companies. Most larger companies do hire local, as it is easier to hire within somewhere and not shuttle employees around.

That's why it seems better for a province to do smaller bites of a project instead of going whole-hog. The problem being that putting off infrastructure improvements can easily be delayed to make a budget look better.

[bomberjet]

100%. I'm working on another project right now, multiple billion dollar type thing in the US. The GC is from Spain.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

100%. I'm working on another project right now, multiple billion dollar type thing in the US. The GC is from Spain.

Acciona?

[bomberjet]

ya. They're pretty active in North America. But generally on the large design build, P3 type projects, the smaller local companies are shut out. They may come in as sub's to do pieces of the work though.

Pros of doing say south perimeter hwy in bits is to get the local companies involved. If it was done as a whole project, it'll most certainly be large international firms.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

ya. They're pretty active in North America. But generally on the large design build, P3 type projects, the smaller local companies are shut out. They may come in as sub's to do pieces of the work though.

Pros of doing say south perimeter hwy in bits is to get the local companies involved. If it was done as a whole project, it'll most certainly be large international firms.

IIRC Acciona was the lead of the P3 consortium that built the S.E. leg of 201 in Calgary. Amazingly low price ($769 million?) for that stretch of freeway.

[bomberjet]

I'm not sure on that one. First time I've worked with them.

But have heard things like they come in with 0 contingency and bring labour from Spain. Driving the price down.

[plrh]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I'm not sure on that one. First time I've worked with them.

But have heard things like they come in with 0 contingency and bring labour from Spain. Driving the price down.

Not a great way to spend stimulus money.

[Biff]

This doesn't sound like the appropriate spot for a roundabout...


July 16, 2020

PROVINCE ANNOUNCES IMPROVEMENTS TO INTERSECTION OF TRANS-CANADA HIGHWAY AND PTH 16


As part of the $500-million Manitoba Restart Program, the province is planning improvements at the intersection of the Trans-Canada Highway and Provincial Trunk Highway (PTH) 16, Premier Brian Pallister announced today.

“Our goal is to improve safety and traffic flow at this significant intersection, where Manitoba’s two major east-west strategic economic corridors connect,” said Pallister. “Driver safety is our main concern, as there have been several collisions at this intersection over the years, and we have started a comprehensive review study on possible options to address safety concerns.”

There are currently traffic lights at the intersection west of Portage la Prairie, where the Trans-Canada Highway (PTH 1) meets the Yellowhead Highway (PTH 16) to the north and Provincial Road (PR) 305 to the south. The study will guide the design of a roundabout to improve the safety and operational efficiency of the intersection.

“We want to improve the safety for everyone on Manitoba roads and we’re exercising due diligence in considering permanent safety solutions,” said Infrastructure Minister Ron Schuler. “We’ve identified the intersection of the Trans-Canada and Yellowhead highways as a priority project and our investment will make the intersection safer and more efficient, as well as create construction jobs for Manitobans to help our economy rebound.”

The minister noted the study and design will be complete in October 2020.

Schuler noted the province recently implemented interim safety measures at the intersection including additional pavement markings, installation of a dedicated turning lane, improved signage and traffic signal upgrades.

Funding for the PTH 1 and PTH 16 intersection upgrades are part of the $500-million Manitoba Restart Program, an economic stimulus package to help restart Manitoba’s economy and ramp up construction in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic. The province has earmarked $65 million for major highway projects, including the PTH 1 and PTH 16 upgrades and recently announced PTH 100 and St. Mary’s Road interchange.

[Andy6]

If a roundabout works, it could potentially save the province a lot of money.

[Dengler Avenue]

I saw it coming for Manitoba. M.I.T. probably wanna test this out and apply it to Elie, Brandon and Virden, especially Virden because an AADT of 4.4K is too low to justify an interchange.
I’d need to see the design though. If done right, there might be space to add flyover ramps for TCH later on, turning it into a roundabout interchange.
As for Deacons Corners, interchange or bust.
By the way, @Andy6 check #365 out.

[esquire]

In Europe, roundabouts are a common way of addressing rural or semi rural routes that intersect but where traffic volumes don't justify a full-on interchange. There are probably dozens if not hundreds of points in Manitoba where a roundabout would make sense.

That said, this does not strike me as an ideal place for one. It's a fairly busy junction of two major routes. A roundabout is better than what's there now, but it still feels like a real compromise, especially considering that it wouldn't take much to fix this problem of an intersection.