Planning for shrinking cities

[SaskScraper]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

What was that like 10 families and a goat? I stand by what I said. The food I had was crap. And if it was the centre of Chinese culture in Saskatchewan from a century ago, I can only assume the great-great grandkids who could cook left town.....or more than likely they have to make the crap that sells to locals who lack taste buds.

And yes, I'm aware of the history. Saw the tunnels. Heard the history. Doesn't change the fact that the food sucked. But good job on proving my point about tokenism. "Hey we had a few Chinese folks here a century ago. Ergo we have great Chinese food."

You want to tell me how many times you go out of your way to actually sample Moose Jaw's finest Chinese food yourself?

If you know all about the history of Chinese in Moose Jaw and went on the Passage to Fortune Tunnels tour, or even the Al Capone tunnel tour for that matter, you'd know it was more than 10 families and a goat that made up MJ's Chinatown. 110 years ago Moose Jaw was larger than Saskatoon at that time, and had only slightly smaller population than today.

If you ever go back to MJ ask the locals what Asian restaurants are the best and you'll get a better idea of favorite cuisine in the community instead of basing entire city's restaurants off of one meal.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I'm always surprised that Hooter's is still around. Now that Joey's and Earl's and Moxie's all slut it up, the value of Hooter's has to be diminishing. It was the alternative to Peel Pub when I was in university in Toronto. I can't imagine it climbing up the ladder. But maybe when I become a middle aged chubster who knows....

That's what I was thinking too, But Hooter's in Saskatoon will probably do really well because of lots of young/high percentage male demographic in Saskatoon, particularly with post secondary colleges like Dumont Tech Institute & Sask Polytech and University of Sask etc.

Bar and club scene in Saskatoon has grown a lot in last few years and the city has highest number of restaurants per capita in Canada.

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

You can't be serious. Anybody who says this is a "uniquely Toronto thing" hasn't been too India. It is the cuisine of choice in India when dining out. Akin to Mexican food in the US or Indian food in the UK.

It was created in India, by those Chinese immigrants you talked about. And their presence in India dates back to the early 1800s. Some of these Chinese migrants and/or their descendants ended up moving to Caribbean as migrants or indentured servants bringing their cuisine with them. It's why Caribbean Chinese food is close to Indo-Chinese food.

Many of them left India in the 1960s after facing discrimination following the 1962 Indo-China war. That's how some of them ended up in Canada.

Where did you get the idea that this cuisine was created in Toronto?

I didn't mean the cuisine was created in Toronto; I meant that the use of the term "Hakka food" to describe it is unique to Toronto. As I said:

Elsewhere in the world, "Hakka food" usually means the actual southern Chinese food that Hakka people in their homeland eat.

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

If you know all about the history of Chinese in Moose Jaw and went on the Passage to Fortune Tunnels tour, or even the Al Capone tunnel tour for that matter, you'd know it was more than 10 families and a goat that made up MJ's Chinatown. 110 years ago Moose Jaw was larger than Saskatoon at that time, and had only slightly smaller population than today.

If you ever go back to MJ ask the locals what Asian restaurants are the best and you'll get a better idea of favorite cuisine in the community instead of basing entire city's restaurants off of one meal.

Yeah... you're not finding authentic Chinese food in MJ. Good selection of Chinese-Canadian-style "chop suey" food, sure. But that's not the same. You can find chop suey cuisine all over Canada in practically every small town.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

That's what I was thinking too, But Hooter's in Saskatoon will probably do really well because of lots of young/high percentage male demographic in Saskatoon, particularly with post secondary colleges like Dumont Tech Institute & Sask Polytech and University of Sask etc.

I doubt it.

Originally Posted by Vox

Business Insider reported that the number of Hooters restaurants decreased 7 percent from 2012 until 2016. While Business Insider attributed this to Pornhub’s findings that millennials are less likely to search for breasts, there is widespread online speculation that the problem lies not with a decreased appreciation of breasts, but with the fact that the concept of the restaurant is outdated and appeals only to the most boorish of baby boomers.Business Insider reported that the number of Hooters restaurants decreased 7 percent from 2012 until 2016. While Business Insider attributed this to Pornhub’s findings that millennials are less likely to search for breasts, there is widespread online speculation that the problem lies not with a decreased appreciation of breasts, but with the fact that the concept of the restaurant is outdated and appeals only to the most boorish of baby boomers.

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/1...aurant-decline

I'm surprised that Hooters is opening new locations in 2020.

[CityTech]

In the interest of equality, I vote that Hooters creates a spin off called Sausages, where the staff are all attractive skimpily dressed men.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by CityTech

In the interest of equality, I vote that Hooters creates a spin off called Sausages, where the staff are all attractive skimpily dressed men.

A business in Dallas tried this - it lasted a year:

https://www.eater.com/2019/7/5/20682...n-dallas-texas

[MolsonExport]

Wasn't Ginger Beef invented in Okotoks?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The thing is small towns can actually be charming. And they can have good options. But that is not the case in most of Canada. Most of our small towns are sprawl on steroids. Same generic architecture and unwalkable neighbourhoods as any suburban subdivision. Same chain stores. Same chain restaurants (only with less ethnic food options). What exactly is appalling about that?

If our small towns had real vision, they'd be building wonderful walkable neighborhoods. They'd have farm-to-table restaurants and microbreweries and town squares. Instead, you get an acre lot, hang out at Tim's, drive everywhere in your pickup, shop at Walmart and dine at Kelsey's or Swiss Chalet. And you get to be obese for that lifestyle!

Now that you mention it, it is a little surprising that more enterprising small towns don't seek to distinguish themselves from the hordes by taking on a more traditional, walkable built form. Most small towns in Manitoba (basically everything other than Winnipeg) is designed with a strip mall and parking lot out in front as the highest design ideal. Anything built in the 60s or beyond is almost always car centric. Even Brandon hates its downtown which is ironic given that it's really the only notable part of the entire city.

It's wild when you go to Europe or Asia and see what a small town can look like.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I doubt it.

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/1...aurant-decline

I'm surprised that Hooters is opening new locations in 2020.

It is surprising. When you ask me to associate Hooters with a year, '1992' comes to mind for me. It's so nineties. I guess they have to keep trying, though.

Hooters never really caught on in Canada... not too shocking given that we have long had somewhat classier chains with better food and ambience that also have attractive serving staff to gawk at.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by esquire

Now that you mention it, it is a little surprising that more enterprising small towns don't seek to distinguish themselves from the hordes by taking on a more traditional, walkable built form. Most small towns in Manitoba (basically everything other than Winnipeg) is designed with a strip mall and parking lot out in front as the highest design ideal. Anything built in the 60s or beyond is almost always car centric. Even Brandon hates its downtown which is ironic given that it's really the only notable part of the entire city.

It's wild when you go to Europe or Asia and see what a small town can look like.

It is indeed shocking to see what shall towns are like in those parts of the world. And if our towns made even a slight effort to offer some of that, they'd be able to attract and retain a lot more residents.

Dining wise, something that has always struck me as weird in North America is how much rural locations suck with food. In much of Europe and Asia, the small towns offer some of the best dining. We have small towns right beside farms, where the top end of dining is a chain restaurant. That is just sad.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

If you know all about the history of Chinese in Moose Jaw and went on the Passage to Fortune Tunnels tour, or even the Al Capone tunnel tour for that matter, you'd know it was more than 10 families and a goat that made up MJ's Chinatown. 110 years ago Moose Jaw was larger than Saskatoon at that time, and had only slightly smaller population than today.

If you ever go back to MJ ask the locals what Asian restaurants are the best and you'll get a better idea of favorite cuisine in the community instead of basing entire city's restaurants off of one meal.

I spent a year in MJ. It wasn't just a quick drive through. And tried more than one Chinese eatery in town. The only good thing I can say is that it wasn't as bad as what I had in Portage.

Originally Posted by CityTech

I didn't mean the cuisine was created in Toronto; I meant that the use of the term "Hakka food" to describe it is unique to Toronto. As I said:

It's called "Hakka Chinese" on the subcontinent too. Though just "Chinese" is more common because that is an Indian's understanding of Chinese food.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

In much of Europe and Asia, the small towns offer some of the best dining. We have small towns right beside farms, where the top end of dining is a chain restaurant. That is just sad.

Have you done tours of the Niagara area or Okanagan, PEI, Lower Mainland BC, or Annapolis Valley or South Shore NS? There is tons of good food made with local produce.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by someone123

Have you done tours of the Niagara area or Okanagan, PEI, Lower Mainland BC, or Annapolis Valley or South Shore NS? There is tons of good food made with local produce.

Yes. And those places are great. But why do we have so few of these when our country produces some of the best agricultural products on the planet? Is there anything like the above areas in the Prairies? Or Northern Ontario?

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Yes. And those places are great. But why do we have so few of these when our country produces some of the best agricultural products on the planet?

Uh, that's obviously not true.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by someone123

Have you done tours of the Niagara area or Okanagan, PEI, Lower Mainland BC, or Annapolis Valley or South Shore NS? There is tons of good food made with local produce.

This is a recent phenomenon, though. And it's mostly the domain of high-end dining. We don't have street stalls or little hole-in-the-wall restaurants selling legacy peasant food that is delicious and distinctive.

For so long we were a cold British outpost surviving on simple hearty fare.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by rousseau

This is a recent phenomenon, though. And it's mostly the domain of high-end dining. We don't have street stalls or little hole-in-the-wall restaurants selling legacy peasant food that is delicious and distinctive.

Not sure I really agree with this. I used to go to a great farmers' market that has operated since 1750. They are all over around here too, with some awesome stuff that is accessible to anybody. The small towns tend to have them as well.

If you travel around rural NS you can get good seafood in all kinds of hole-in-the-wall places. It is not really something I appreciated when I lived there. It is similar here in BC with the local fisheries. And people always ate this stuff in these areas, long before McDonald's existed. In the more rural areas I lived in it was common to grow fruit and vegetables as well.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by rousseau

We don't have street stalls or little hole-in-the-wall restaurants selling legacy peasant food that is delicious and distinctive.

For so long we were a cold British outpost surviving on simple hearty fare.

The best way to buy seafood in the Maritimes is out of the back of some random fisherman's pickup truck.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by JHikka

The best way to buy seafood in the Maritimes is out of the back of some random fisherman's pickup truck.

100%. Some of the smaller, (read: not a supermarket chain) fish markets are OK too, though much more expensive.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by CityTech

Yeah... you're not finding authentic Chinese food in MJ. Good selection of Chinese-Canadian-style "chop suey" food, sure. But that's not the same. You can find chop suey cuisine all over Canada in practically every small town.

You really are not finding "authentic" ethnic food anywhere outside the region it is from. Even then, it is not one recipe. My mother is Ukrainian/Russian decent. The boat her parents came on, their kids, and my mother and her siblings are all still close. Get them all to make Borscht. If you take 10 of them, you will get 10 recipes. Now, get their mothers together and have them make it. Lets say there are 10 of them, you will still get 10 different recipes.

Complaining about ethic food is funny. It would be like arguing what is the best coffee. The argument would include, the bean, the roaster, the place you get it at, whether there is sugar, sweetener, milk, cream, powder milk/cream or even evaporated milk, and the mix of them.

[Truenorth00]

Let's be clear. I wasn't talking about authenticity. I was talking about the subpar flavour.