CHICAGO | General Developments

[Latoso]

Originally Posted by spyguy

From what I could see from the model, there are going to be about 3 separate retail entrances from wells street, so it won't be as devoid of life as many believe.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by honte

^ Well, that is a good way to put it. I agree, it feels somewhat contrived, like an "instant town centre," and that may be why it's drawing the Naperville comments (although of course Naperville has quite a nice older downtown).

Architecturally, my main complaint is not with the low-rises, however dull they appear, but with that Loewenbergish tower! It looks decent from East-West, and then from North-South there is all that painted concrete...

Totally agree re: the tower's north-south vs. east-west faces... This is Hirsch as well, no? Maybe Centrum should shop for a new design architect for the towers.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Latoso

From what I could see from the model, there are going to be about 3 separate retail entrances from wells street, so it won't be as devoid of life as many believe.

^ That's good news, so that means there will be at least an additional pedestrian entrance.

So will there be elevators from the retail podium down to Wells St? There are so many unanswered questions. For example, I thought this development was going to be bordered by 9th street to the north, with 9th street connecting Wells to Clark. Did anybody take pics of the models at the sales center?

[left of center]

Originally Posted by Sir Isaac Newton

To your responses:

A) What exactly is the developer of RC doing to discourage walking? Those who live within walking distance to RC will walk there, no matter what. Those who don't live within walking distance will not walk there, no matter what. It's a pretty simple concept. I'm not sure what the developer could possibly even do to make a big impact on the number of people walking to RC vs. not walking there. I assume you think that because RC has it's own underground parking, walking to RC is somehow being discouraged. As if people who lived in Lakeview or Hyde Park would plan on walking to RC, but once they realize that RC has parking, will drive there instead.

B) There will be an entrance/exit on Roosevelt and an entrance/exit on Wells. I may not be a math prodigy, but I believe that adds up to more than one.

C) Already on all sections of Roosevelt nearby RC, there is tons of retail in existence or sprouting up. However, the section of Roosevelt at RC is a bridge. So I'm not sure what kind of retail you had in mind for Roosevelt in that area. A couple hot dog venders repelling over the Roosevelt Street bridge? The parking garage in RC that you and others on here rip on is in fact creating the ability to connect Roosevelt with the whole plot of land that RC is on, in the first place. And as for the retail underneath the Metra tracks that you refer to, it will be in a preexisting building where the entrance to the Metra is contained in. The Metra track between Polk and Roosevelt is supported by a concrete wall that is maybe 7 or 8 feet high....don't think anyone will be squeezing shops underneath it.

And just to let you know, I take no offense to what I say. I just like messing with people on this site who get all snobbish about their architecture, or get all snobbish in general....especially since it is usually well deserved.

Just curious, what would be your master plan for the RC parcel of land?

A) People from Lakeview and Hyde Park probably wouldnt walk to RC, considering the distance. They would shop in thier own local retail districts. I dont blame the existance of the parking garage as a detriment to walking, just the project's connectivity to the neighborhood. i understand the RC's geographic limitations, but i think a cul-de-sac retail strip isnt really the best idea out there for this plot. Its too inward focused. If you want to see a similar example of bad planning with an inward focused development, look a few blocks east at Dearborn Park.

B) Last i checked, RC is a dead end which by definition has one exit. I guess you can throw away your dreams of being an English language prodigy, too

C) The Target does an excellent job of fronting Roosevelt with no car access from Roosevelt. Im not ripping on the existance of a car garage, and if you look at my past posts, i never have. I merely criticized the layout of the project, not its intent or its purpose. I really think you have been misinterpreting my point, here.

I'm not getting snobby at all here, if that is what you think i am. I merely want this city to grow in the best way possible. If developments go without criticism, then crap architecture will result. We are on the same team here, no need to lash out.


My master plan for RC? I would just boost its connectivity with the neighborhood, and have it be less "inward". Seeing as how Roosevelt is elevated, which we all understand to be problematic with developing this parcel of land, i wouldnt make a road connection to Roosevelt at all. Roosevelt Rd jams up during rush hour and even during non rush hour times during the day anyway, it doesnt need another choke point. I would have storefronts on Roosevelt, as well as storefronts on Wells St. More retail would go onto 11th street, which would be extended to Wells from Clark (assuming that an on-grade crossing or below-grade crossing could be created with the Metra tracks). Even if crossing the very busy Metra ROW is not feasible, then an extension of Financial Pl south into the project would be a good idea, with Taylor extended east to Clark, which i believe would be possible since at that point, the Metra tracks are elevated above grade. I believe there is also a plan to build a Taylor Street bridge over the river as well, which would further bolster the connectivity of the grid in the area. A pedestrian walkway/stairway would connect Roosevelt Rd. with Financial Pl. I would also consider connecting Wells St. with Roosevelt Rd, if it were possible. My perception of the possibility of my idea actually being viable could be all wrong, seeing as how i am not a civil engineer, but something similar to this would definatly be an improvement over the current design.

Regardless, we dont agree on this project. Going back and forth isnt really going to solve that. I guess we can just agree to disagree, in order to keep this thread from devolving into a name calling match.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by left of center

My master plan for RC? I would just boost its connectivity with the neighborhood, and have it be less "inward". Seeing as how Roosevelt is elevated, which we all understand to be problematic with developing this parcel of land, i wouldnt make a road connection to Roosevelt at all. Roosevelt Rd jams up during rush hour and even during non rush hour times during the day anyway, it doesnt need another choke point. I would have storefronts on Roosevelt, as well as storefronts on Wells St. More retail would go onto 11th street, which would be extended to Wells from Clark (assuming that an on-grade crossing or below-grade crossing could be created with the Metra tracks). Even if crossing the very busy Metra ROW is not feasible, then an extension of Financial Pl south into the project would be a good idea, with Taylor extended east to Clark, which i believe would be possible since at that point, the Metra tracks are elevated above grade. I believe there is also a plan to build a Taylor Street bridge over the river as well, which would further bolster the connectivity of the grid in the area. A pedestrian walkway/stairway would connect Roosevelt Rd. with Financial Pl. I would also consider connecting Wells St. with Roosevelt Rd, if it were possible. My perception of the possibility of my idea actually being viable could be all wrong, seeing as how i am not a civil engineer, but something similar to this would definatly be an improvement over the current design.

^ To tell you the truth, I would rather see something like what you've described above than what is being planned currently at RC. Anyhow, lets all move on

[Sir Isaac Newton]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ To tell you the truth, I would rather see something like what you've described above than what is being planned currently at RC. Anyhow, lets all move on

Ideally, I would like to see what you described as well. But I personally believe that most of your suggestions are either extremely expensive and the city would not shell that kind of money for it (keep in mind that they are already spending a ton on the Taylor Street extension as is), or they are simply not feasible.

Perhaps they can do something similar to what you described in the enormous parcel of land directly south of Roosevelt....this would be easier to do as well, as the Metra tracks trail off to the east shortly after Roosevelt, and don't bisect this whole area in half. Not to mention, it is not directly across from Dearborn Park, and the development to the east of it is at least a LITTLE bit more open than Dearborn Park.

[a chicago bearcat]

actually the trailing off to the east makes it impossible for access from the east on the southern parcel

because an access to clark needs room to slope up or down to get over or under the tracks

if there was one street underpass north of roosevelt it would dramatically lower the strain that will be put on other east west streets in the area by those trying to access the new neighborhood

[TowerGuy37]

I want to know what happens once Southgate, Home Depot and Best Buy all open early next year. Total gridlock on roosevelt! Of course they have done absolutely nothing to improve traffic flow. Traffic does not improve buy putting a person in a yellow neon vest at every corner. This is the most ludacris solution yet. They FUCK traffic up! I say eliminate the 10 or 15 parking meters on roosevellt between canal and the expressway and make roosevelt three lanes on each side. Why would this be so hard to do? Makes the most sense and gives each side an extra lane!

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by TowerGuy37

I want to know what happens once Southgate, Home Depot and Best Buy all open early next year. Total gridlock on roosevelt! Of course they have done absolutely nothing to improve traffic flow. Traffic does not improve buy putting a person in a yellow neon vest at every corner. This is the most ludacris solution yet. They FUCK traffic up! I say eliminate the 10 or 15 parking meters on roosevellt between canal and the expressway and make roosevelt three lanes on each side. Why would this be so hard to do? Makes the most sense and gives each side an extra lane!

A high-speed 6-lane wide road? Yeah that'll just be awesome for pedestrian activity.

[Mr Downtown]

Remember the new 9th street underpass. That will be built by the city with TIF money, so it's not dependent on a particular project. Presumably the way folks will walk from Printers Row and adjacent blocks to the Roosevelt Collection will be via the new 9th Street and through the new park.

I'd love to see a pedestrian connection over the Metra tracks at 11th Street, connecting the retail part of The Curve with the Roosevelt Collection, but no one else has shown any interest.

Folks who keep talking about extending the street grid into either of these areas need to come to grips with the actual site conditions. Roosevelt is 30 feet above Wells, and the Metra tracks are rising from ground level to +12 at Polk, meaning you can't easily get under them OR over them. This ain't Armitage and Halsted, folks.

[TowerGuy37]

Hey I'm all for pedestrian street activity, the m ore the merrier. I think everyone forgets that the south loop and the kind of retail it is attracting is not the north side of chicago. We do not have storefront after storefront development down here like lincoln park or these days wicker park. Those kinds of neighborhoods attract pedestrian traffic, where as the kind of retail emerging in the south loop is car dependent retail. Unfortanetely its not a walking kind of neighborhood nor will it ever be. The majority of most people do not walk to Home Depot or Best Buy to shop, they drive. This is the same kind of development that happened to Clybourn and look at the gridlock now because of HORRID planning. Theres not too many people walking around over there but a hell of a lot of cars and no added lanes, turning signals or much of anything to keep that flowing. Its too bad Chicago is not more condensed in scale like Manhattan where you want to walk and its inviting to walk. Here its very different

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by TowerGuy37

Hey I'm all for pedestrian street activity, the m ore the merrier. I think everyone forgets that the south loop and the kind of retail it is attracting is not the north side of chicago. We do not have storefront after storefront development down here like lincoln park or these days wicker park. Those kinds of neighborhoods attract pedestrian traffic, where as the kind of retail emerging in the south loop is car dependent retail. Unfortanetely its not a walking kind of neighborhood nor will it ever be. The majority of most people do not walk to Home Depot or Best Buy to shop, they drive. This is the same kind of development that happened to Clybourn and look at the gridlock now because of HORRID planning. Theres not too many people walking around over there but a hell of a lot of cars and no added lanes, turning signals or much of anything to keep that flowing. Its too bad Chicago is not more condensed in scale like Manhattan where you want to walk and its inviting to walk. Here its very different

^ That doesn't mean that every effort shouldn't be made to make the south loop or North/Clybourn as urban and pedestrian-friendly as posssible. To me, it's perfectly possible to have retail that accommodates the auto but is urban and pedestrian-oriented at the same time. That's what is happening with some of the newer developments at North/Clybourn, and that should happen in the south loop as well.

I have never viewed all-out car dependence as anything more than a transient state of affairs. When all is said and done and people become forced to use transit again, places like the south loop should be easily poised to make that transition. I view Roosevelt Collection as a development that shouldn't have any problem with that, although its configuration is quite odd.

[forumly_chgoman]

I was walking down adams today and as I was passing the parking garage btw franklin and wells....near the Sears tower.....I thought had there ever been a serious proposal for a tower at the parking gagrage sight.....I mean kit wold seem to make sense....hell its right of the quincy L stop and not that nad a walk to oglivie

....any ever hear anything



second question....just north of the L at lake and state there is a parcel that looks to be in demo.....I was unawre of anthing at this site.....is there soemthing going on there?

[honte]

^ There is a hotel proposed for that site at State / Lake. Check the first page of the Boom Rundown.

[forumly_chgoman]

thanks honte yeah here it is

though I didn't see a rendering....no doubt because of my slow internet connection

Official name Marriott Hotel
Emporis Building Number 260228

Location
Address *
Bordering street #1 East Lake Street*
Bordering street #2 North State Street*
Postcode *
Neighborhood Loop
District Downtown
City Chicago
State Illinois
Country U.S.A.

Technical Data
Floors (OG) 29


Building in General
Type of construction high-rise building
Main usages
*
Architectural style *
Status approved

[trvlr70]

Originally Posted by honte

^ There is a hotel proposed for that site at State / Lake. Check the first page of the Boom Rundown.

But, but that parcel has been really quiet for a while now. I don't know what's going on at the moment.

[Chicago Shawn]

Originally Posted by forumly_chgoman

I was walking down adams today and as I was passing the parking garage btw franklin and wells....near the Sears tower.....I thought had there ever been a serious proposal for a tower at the parking gagrage sight.....I mean kit wold seem to make sense....hell its right of the quincy L stop and not that nad a walk to oglivie

....any ever hear anything



second question....just north of the L at lake and state there is a parcel that looks to be in demo.....I was unawre of anthing at this site.....is there soemthing going on there?

I believe a 60 story office building was proposed for the sears tower garage site bak in the late '80s. It was killed in the glut and crash of commercial real estate in the late 80's-early 90's due to overbuilding and the start of the first gulf war. As was the Skyneedle, and a couple other large towers for the West Loop.

[honte]

Originally Posted by trvlr70

But, but that parcel has been really quiet for a while now. I don't know what's going on at the moment.

That's fine with me if something else happens there... I thought the design was Grade-A Tacky.

[BWChicago]

Originally Posted by trvlr70

But, but that parcel has been really quiet for a while now. I don't know what's going on at the moment.

A new plan for a DoubleTree hotel called 'Wit' was just announced.
http://arcchicago.blogspot.com/2006/...te-street.html

[spyguy]

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