Green Space Of Winnipeg - official thread/discussion

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by esquire

I like how they realized "wetlands" didn't have enough traction on its own so they had to elevate it to indigenous land and get Metis activists involved in this previously undiscovered site of apparently vital historical importance.

Are there any other helpful labels that could be thrown to the wall here in an effort to get something to stick?

Maybe they could relocate a spotted owl to the site, even build it a nest!

[Authentic_City]

It's interesting that the Parker lands are now being associated with Rooster Town. The precise boundaries of Rooster Town are hard to pin down, but that community was located primarily where Grant Park is today. Generally, the area between Grant Avenue and Taylor Avenue, between Wilton Street west as far as Lindsay Street. I'm sure there were a few camps on the south side of the tracks especially during the depression, but this is not what historians have commonly referred to as Rooster Town.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

It's interesting that the Parker lands are now being associated with Rooster Town. The precise boundaries of Rooster Town are hard to pin down, but that community was located primarily where Grant Park is today. Generally, the area between Grant Avenue and Taylor Avenue, between Wilton Street west as far as Lindsay Street. I'm sure there were a few camps on the south side of the tracks especially during the depression, but this is not what historians have commonly referred to as Rooster Town.

The extensive stories about Rooster Town in the WFP over the past year or two have made that clear. This is just grasping at straws, trying to link the Parker lands to Rooster Town... perhaps as a plan B, given that few are buying the "wetlands" story that Cal Dueck and his cohorts have been pushing.

Besides, even if it was part of Rooster Town, what exactly does that mean? Should the land be set aside for all eternity because a couple generations of Metis families lived there? Come on. This whole thing is absurd.

[buzzg]

Ya the argument doesn't even seem to have anything behind it other than "it was there" - which it wasn't. They're not even claiming it to be any sort of sacred ground.

[WolselyMan]

Originally Posted by buzzg

LOL, so much to unpack in there but don't feel like getting into an argument.

Sorry if I threw too much at you. I'm not looking for an argument (well, maybe I am, but I'm certainly not looking for a conflict). I'd be very interested to know what your thoughts are about my other points, see where you disagree with them. Unfortunately you picked the least important part of my response to address. I threw in the whole animal migratory route thing as just a minor side note. Just a neat little fact that I thought might be a little interesting to bring up.

Originally Posted by buzzg

It'll be good when the retention pond goes in then so that when it rains and the grass floods due to poor drainage, we won't have as much standing water to breed mosquitoes.

We also won't have as much standing water for frogs, toads, and salamanders to live in. Didn't you ever go frog catching when you were a kid? If you did, you'd know that it's so much more fulfilling than sitting in your backyard staring at some flowers, even when all the mosquitoes are extinct for the summer.

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Maybe they could relocate a spotted owl to the site, even build it a nest!

I don't know. It would be nice if we could at least have SOME sort of owl in the area. Even better a substantial population of them that makes it easy to spot one on a walk. Kinda like what the area has for now.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Ya the argument doesn't even seem to have anything behind it other than "it was there" - which it wasn't. They're not even claiming it to be any sort of sacred ground.

Call their bluff. "Thank you to the Metis Historians of the Parker Wetlands Conservation Committee for drawing our attention to Rooster Town. In the interests of reconciliation, we have turned ownership of the Pan Am Pool over to the Manitoba Metis Federation."

Honestly, it drives me crazy when people misuse indigenous history to back up their NIMBY campaigns. There was something similar in Ontario a while back when the (all white, naturally) residents of an Oakville neighbourhood opposed allowing a golf course to be developed into housing because of the "important aboriginal history" of the golf course site.

[Gm0ney]

Originally Posted by WolselyMan

With all due respect, when I think of the word "replaceable", trees wouldn't really even register to me as even in the top 50 items that would match that description, let alone replaceable by definition. I'd hate to sound like a smart ass, but you are aware that it often takes upwards of 60 years for a tree to reach maximum size? Certainly not irreplaceable, but why should I have to wait 60 years for some newly planted trees to grow full size when I already have perfectly healthy fully mature trees already in the ground to enjoy? What I'm trying to say is, planting and growing a tree is a 60 year commitment. Chopping down a tree, on the other hand, is a 60 second commitment. Whenever you cut down a fully grown tree, you are ultimately deciding something permanent about that landscape. Something that won't be able to be reversed for half a century, at the shortest.

I think you need to take a closer look at that CBC article

Keep in mind that the vast majority of Assiniboine Park (or at least the part that's landscaped) basically consists of open, sprawling fields of freshly mowed grass. The actual part of that land that's canopied with trees is comparatively small, and are more there as supporting scenery for the big green fields and not so much the main focus of the landscape. If they had to cut down the exact same amount of trees in an old growth forest, of course it wouldn't feel like that big of a deal, because it's a drop in the bucket when scaled against the countless trees of a forest. But when you plan on taking 150 trees out of a small site that is at best, heavily peppered by them, then that's the equivalent of chopping down an Ireland's worth of Amazon rainforest in a year.

It really wouldn't have taken much for them to try a little harder than that. How about ENTIRELY in a field? There is no shortage of those in the park, so what are they so afraid of swallowing some of it up for? Are they really that worried that sports enthusiasts will be outraged by reducing their endless supply of green space all over the city that's tailored specifically for them? Does Assiniboine Park really need 3 baseball diamonds? Maybe it makes sense that they do, seeing that they're the most well known out of all other parks, but I'd expect a philosophy from those running a greenspace to favor trees, over....grass. That's what they did. They asked themselves what was of more value; trees, or grass - And they picked the grass dammit.

Oh well. Looking forward to those extra 1000 trees that they'll be planting in the future. Maybe I might be able to snatch a photo of the end result, 60 years later on my death bed. Right before they tear them all down once more to replace the conservatory yet again.

That article is mostly hyperbolic nonsense - though I do agree they messed up the Nature Playground area and it's killing the oaks. But the part about the diversity gardens is off the mark. Here's the site plan:



Compare that with a satellite view of the park and you'll see they're not cutting down much at all. There's a new parking lot going in a current field. The conservatory itself is mainly in a field (though there's a strip of trees north of Locomotive drive that will be cut down). They're planting trees to the west of the new parking lot in a current field and they're planting more north of the Leaf in what's also now a field.

And no, trees are not irreplaceable. They grow back. It takes some time but it's not like they're useless weeds from year 1 until they reach their mature height at 60 years...you can enjoy them as they grow. Also the park is full of them. In fact the majority of the park east of the zoo is treed. Look at the satellite map - even the most landscaped part of the park (everything east of Conservatory Drive to the footbridge) is still about 40% treed.

Amenity-free land almost completely covered with trees is called a forest not a park. And there's a huge forest right across the street from Assiniboine Park, if the million or so square meters of trees in the park itself aren't enough.

[buzzg]

I just hope they change the name. WTH is a diversity garden?

[WolselyMan]

Originally Posted by buzzg

I just hope they change the name. WTH is a diversity garden?

It's gonna be mix of several different gardens varying from flowers, to grassland. You know, biodiversity and stuff. But it also has a more artsy fartsy meaning to it in that it's supposed to be a metaphor for Canada's "multiculturalism" and a "celebration of our country's diversity". I'm not gonna get into detail on my thoughts about the cult of diversity, and their obsession with identity politics and irrelevant nonsense like demographic representation. (Basically any form of diversity under the sun except for the only one that actually matters, which is diversity of opinion.) But anyhow, I fail to see how you can just slap any kind of meaning onto something as innocuous as a garden and say that it represents "multiculturalism". They could of said that the garden represents the purity of the Aryan race or something - And it still would of been just as believable of an interpretation. All it really is is the meaningless technobabble that the modern art world has degraded into.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by WolselyMan

It's gonna be mix of several different gardens varying from flowers, to grassland. You know, biodiversity and stuff. But it also has a more artsy fartsy meaning to it in that it's supposed to be a metaphor for Canada's "multiculturalism" and a "celebration of our country's diversity". I'm not gonna get into detail on my thoughts about the cult of diversity, and their obsession with identity politics and irrelevant nonsense like demographic representation. (Basically any form of diversity under the sun except for the only one that actually matters, which is diversity of opinion.) But anyhow, I fail to see how you can just slap any kind of meaning onto something as innocuous as a garden and say that it represents "multiculturalism". They could of said that the garden represents the purity of the Aryan race or something - And it still would of been just as believable of an interpretation. All it really is is the meaningless technobabble that the modern art world has degraded into.

thank you for this. It sums up my thoughts exactly.

[Authentic_City]

Somewhat related to the discussion about tree removal and damage in Assiniboine Park is the larger issue of the decline of Bur Oak trees in Winnipeg. The city has been focused on Elms threatened by Dutch Elm Disease (DED) and more recently Ash trees are under threat by the Emerald Ash Borer. The latter is a serious threat that could completely decimate all native ash trees in Winnipeg (which were planted in abundance for several decades after DED was discovered in Winnipeg).

Less well known is the large scale decline of Bur Oak trees beginning in the mid-1980s. Winnipeg is the only major city on the prairies with a large native population of Bur Oaks. However, years of urban growth and man-made stresses have led to the decline of the species. What you see in the new playground area in Assiniboine Park is a perfect example. Oaks are very sensitive to changes in drainage patterns brought on by construction and are also very sensitive to root compaction and application of cosmetic pesticides. Many, if not all of the oaks in the playground area are dead or dying because the landscape was heavily altered in the construction. Around the city, you can see lots of bur oaks dead or dying from the top down. Older trees are more sensitive to decline, and these trees are also most valuable and worth protecting. Because of their slow rate of growth, it takes years for an Oak to achieve maturity.

While I don't think we should halt plans for new amenities in Assiniboine Park or elsewhere, better care could be take to care for mature Oaks in Winnipeg because these are a unique and valuable part of the landscape of Winnipeg not found in other prairie cities. For example, in some parks around the city (e.g. Bruce Park in St. James), they try not to mow under mature stands of oak to prevent root compaction. Obviously, excavating near mature oaks should be avoided if at all possible.

For those who want more detail on the decline of Oaks in Winnipeg, the link below is a good read, if fairly scientific.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile...oba-Canada.pdf

[WolselyMan]

Judge denies Parker land owners bid to clear protesters

A local developer's request for an urgent injunction against protesters who've been camped out on the Parker Lands for nearly two weeks was denied this morning by a Manitoba Court of Queen's Bench.

"I'm very pleased with what the judge has said," said Jenna Vandal, one of four named defendants in court and the leader of the Rooster Town Blockade — named for an informal Métis community once located near the property— an encampment that's been set up on the property since July 14 to prevent Gem Equities Inc., and its contracted firms from clearcutting trees.

[plrh]

I can't understand why this development is being singled out by protesters. If it was public land I could understand. Why don't they protest the RT or the big lake they are digging next door? Those are at least government owned. Why didn't they protest other developments like the Shindico one that is even closer to Rooster Town? Will they begin to protest all building permits on private land?

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by plrh

I can't understand why this development is being singled out by protesters. If it was public land I could understand. Why don't they protest the RT or the big lake they are digging next door? Those are at least government owned. Why didn't they protest other developments like the Shindico one that is even closer to Rooster Town? Will they begin to protest all building permits on private land?

They probably would if they were on a large enough scale. This sort of protest is just organized for the sake of having a protest. It's only going to serve to annoy people in the long run.

[buzzg]

The fact that it said "informal" community and "near" the development tells you a lot about the legitimacy of this protest...

[bomberjet]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...ourt-1.4222349

That story was posted on the previous page I believe. Anyways, they are on private land. Can people come and camp out on my front lawn in protest? Are they registered as a protest somehow? Seriously, get tf off my land that I paid for under the law of the land. Even First Nations are bound by the Government. GTFO.

Get out there and start dismantling their camp. They are putting stuff on your land. So remove it. Once they touch you, call the police. Gem says they may hire a private security company to do this. Interesting to see how that would play out.

[optimusREIM]

I'm no fan of GEM myself, but to allow this 'protest' to continue existing would set a pretty dangerous precedent. We have laws for a reason, let this move along, as stupid as it all is. These people are mostly semi-professional protesters anyway, who are basically loosely organized anarchists who have a deep-seeded suspicion of anything lawful.

[JM5]

Originally Posted by WolselyMan

Judge denies Parker land owners bid to clear protesters

Disheartening to say the least. Property rights were always tenuous in this country compared to the US (and other Western democracies) but I think this ruling along with others really erodes them further. The trend shows no signs of stopping.

If something is built outside of the city's footprint, it's sparwl. If it's infill, then it's the destruction of beloved greenspace or wetland or a historic site. Any wonder housing prices are ever climbing and wages are failing to keep pace? Then people complain about their standard of living declining.

At some point, people will need to become more aware of how they are all personally impacted by decisions like these, grow a backbone and demand action from lawmakers, judges and law enforcement.

[bomberjet]

Where exactly are they located out there? I just heard there are actually on City land for the new Parker drainage pond. But that can not be confirmed and might just be an assumption.

From the sounds of the article they are on GEM owned lands.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Where exactly are they located out there? I just heard there are actually on City land for the new Parker drainage pond. But that can not be confirmed and might just be an assumption.

From the sounds of the article they are on GEM owned lands.

I think on the GEM lands as apparently they are holding some of the forestry equipment "hostage" so no more land gets cleared.