CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion

[Jim in Chicago]

Originally Posted by k1052

Also I believe that the new central deicing facility at ORD is now open so no more waiting at the gate to get sprayed down.

And you get to wait in a queue at the central facility instead?

[k1052]

Originally Posted by Jim in Chicago

And you get to wait in a queue at the central facility instead?

Probably not for long since I think it can take a couple dozen planes at a time. Operationally it's a big plus that frees up gate space faster during the winter and reduces the time from deice to takeoff (and thus the odds they'll have to deice again).

[F1 Tommy]

Originally Posted by Jim in Chicago

And you get to wait in a queue at the central facility instead?

The main pad is not 100% finished as several taxiways to it are still under construction. I drove by it today. What a cluster the UAL North hangar pads are now with the old hangar pad closed. I counted 10 777's sitting along with 2 757-300's 6 767-300's and a million regionals all lined up. Looked like Marana Air Park.

[the urban politician]

Ethiopian Airlines ending service to LAX, increasing flights to Chicago, NY

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/...-lax-adds.html

[Chicagoguy]

I actually mentioned that a few weeks ago!

Originally Posted by Chicagoguy

Ethiopian Airlines Is Making Huge Advances In The US

Chicago Increased Frequency

"The airline currently runs the route three times a week but will increase to five times a week in summer 2019. The route flies non-stop eastbound but makes a fuel stop (with no pickup, but passengers can get off) in Dublin on the way back to the USA."

https://simpleflying.com/ethiopian-airlines-expansion/

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by Jim in Chicago

And you get to wait in a queue at the central facility instead?

Yes, they will build a large TSA checkpoints. They will reduced wait times at security. The lines will be shorter and no need to worried about long lines anymore.

[Jim in Chicago]

Originally Posted by N830MH

Yes, they will build a large TSA checkpoints. They will reduced wait times at security. The lines will be shorter and no need to worried about long lines anymore.

This was about de-icing. Not something I want to be subjected to by TSA!

[bnk]

https://www.ttnews.com/articles/amaz...k-cargo-record

Chicago Rockford International Airport Break Cargo Record

ROCKFORD, Ill. — More than 2.1 billion pounds of cargo made its way through Chicago Rockford International Airport in 2018 — shattering the previous record, set in 2017, by 55%.
Cargo business at the airport has been booming for the past few years because of the arrival of Amazon Air and because UPS is routing more freight through its Rockford Air Hub, the company’s second-largest U.S. package-sorting center.

The airport is spending about $10 million to expand its 72,000-square-foot cargo terminal to 200,000 square feet by July 1, when Amazon will assume the lease for the next five years, providing the airport with nearly $1.9 million in rent the first year and increasing sums thereafter.

The city’s airport became the nation’s 22nd busiest in terms of cargo activity — up from 31st in 2017 — according to the Federal Aviation Administration. Airport officials believe it may soon land somewhere in the top 20.

…

Amazon is the driving force behind the expansion of the cargo terminal. The online retail giant has requested that the airport include several add-ons to the building — at Amazon’s expense — including significant parking lot and driveway improvements and a carport-like canopy feature that will extend the length of the building. The improvements, worth several million dollars, not only increase the value of the airport building, but suggest that Amazon’s presence here will extend beyond the five-year lease it has signed with the airport.
“They are putting a lot of money into that building — a lot of money,” RFD Director Mike Dunn told airport commissioners last week. “And we will benefit from it extremely.”

...

[F1 Tommy]

Originally Posted by bnk

https://www.ttnews.com/articles/amaz...k-cargo-record

Chicago Rockford International Airport Break Cargo Record

ROCKFORD, Ill. — More than 2.1 billion pounds of cargo made its way through Chicago Rockford International Airport in 2018 — shattering the previous record, set in 2017, by 55%.
Cargo business at the airport has been booming for the past few years because of the arrival of Amazon Air and because UPS is routing more freight through its Rockford Air Hub, the company’s second-largest U.S. package-sorting center.

T
...

They also built that huge hangar at RFD to work on 747 and A380 aircraft(A380 being pulled out of production in 2021 by the way). RFD is getting big, and all this is at ORD's expense but good for Illinois. Chicago has stupid rules about how long aircraft can stay on the ground for a major overhaul, so the RFD hangar makes a lot more sense. And RFD is a lot cheaper than ORD or MDW.

[Jim in Chicago]

The more I study it, the more attracted I become to the Calatrava submissing - laying aside little questions about whether he could really bring it in at anything close to a budget, or even a typical Chicago inflated final cost.

The approach reminds me of sort of a combination of MUC and FRA. At MUC, there is a pedestrian entrance off the S-Bahn, that takes you through a very lively open area with shops, a Christmas market in December, a skating rink and so on. The stations to buy the train tickets are just as you leave the terminal, so you stop buy a ticket and then take the short walk to the train station. The area is packed with people. The Squaire at FRA which is also very lively, incorporates 2 mid-rise hotels, office buildings, shops, a huge parking garage, restaurants a full-sized grocery store which seems popular with both travelers and airport employees and as a bonus it sits right on top of the mainline rail tracks. There is almost direct access to the autobahn. This part isn't as viable for ORD, but in FRA you can walk off your plane and within minutes be on a high speed train to many parts of Germany and beyond. LH even has a check-in station and "I think" bag drop on the route between the Squaire and the airport terminals.

[jpIllInoIs]

Originally Posted by F1 Tommy

They also built that huge hangar at RFD to work on 747 and A380 aircraft(A380 being pulled out of production in 2021 by the way). RFD is getting big, and all this is at ORD's expense but good for Illinois. Chicago has stupid rules about how long aircraft can stay on the ground for a major overhaul, so the RFD hangar makes a lot more sense. And RFD is a lot cheaper than ORD or MDW.

This is great for RFD and for the logistics industry of greater Chicagoland. Not sure its a loss for ORD considering the capacity constraints. I would say its a loss for GRY-CHi. No matter the investment at Gary which has been considerable with railroad reroutes, runway extension, new access road, terminal makeover- simply no business at that place.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by jpIllInoIs

This is great for RFD and for the logistics industry of greater Chicagoland. Not sure its a loss for ORD considering the capacity constraints. I would say its a loss for GRY-CHi. No matter the investment at Gary which has been considerable with railroad reroutes, runway extension, new access road, terminal makeover- simply no business at that place.

Yeah, that's my take too. Isn't cargo movement booming at ORD too?

[k1052]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Yeah, that's my take too. Isn't cargo movement booming at ORD too?

Yes, up to 1.8 million tons for 2017 from 1.4 million just a few years ago. So much demand that reportedly Aeroterm is going to start on their phase 3 expansion years ahead of schedule.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by k1052

Yes, up to 1.8 million tons for 2017 from 1.4 million just a few years ago. So much demand that reportedly Aeroterm is going to start on their phase 3 expansion years ahead of schedule.

Thanks for the numbers!

[F1 Tommy]

Originally Posted by jpIllInoIs

This is great for RFD and for the logistics industry of greater Chicagoland. Not sure its a loss for ORD considering the capacity constraints. I would say its a loss for GRY-CHi. No matter the investment at Gary which has been considerable with railroad reroutes, runway extension, new access road, terminal makeover- simply no business at that place.

UPS could add a lot to their operation at ORD if they did not have RFD. There is room at ORD for them to do that but RFD is cheaper. Yes it is a loss to ORD as UPS hardly every went to MDW or GRY anyway other than a few flights or diversions. Yes ORD is still killing it in cargo tonnage, but it will be hard to ever be higher than number 3 in the country. I thinks they will be number 3 by 2021 passing MIA and LAX forever in cargo.

[2PRUROCKS!]

I haven't seen this Curbed article about the Calatrava proposal posted here yet. There are a lot of new details I hadn't head before like the relocation of the ATS.

https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/2/8/...airport-design

[BrownTown]

Originally Posted by 2PRUROCKS!

I haven't seen this Curbed article about the Calatrava proposal posted here yet. There are a lot of new details I hadn't head before like the relocation of the ATS.

https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/2/8/...airport-design

Oh for the love of God, why does anyone even ask this doofus to make proposals? Don't let him anywhere near this project unless you want it to end up at 3x the projected cost.

[2PRUROCKS!]

I don't know if the Calatrava proposal will come in at or near budget but I do know the team addressed budgetary issues in more detail and with more specifics than any other team.

I also think the Calatrava proposal is the best from a design perspective including overall aesthetics, design continuity, functionality, connectivity, and future vision for O'Hare even beyond the scope of this project. The way finding and circulation as well as space efficiency in terms of bringing gates closer and making them more visible from various points in the terminal and also access to the ATS, CTA, and possible high speed transportation are all superior in the Calatrava proposal. I also believe the roof will be easier to construct and maintain with snow melt etc. than the Foster proposal. I like the Foster proposal and think it is pretty elegant but I don't like how the concourse juts off of the main terminal building like an odd appendage. Not only is it aesthetically jarring but functionally it is more confusing to navigate and increases the distance needed to travel. The Calatrava design to create a single arrow shaped footprint is a stroke of genius that greatly simplifies the layout, way finding and space usage. Studio ORD tried to do this as well but nowhere near as effectively as Calatrava.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by BrownTown

Oh for the love of God, why does anyone even ask this doofus to make proposals? Don't let him anywhere near this project unless you want it to end up at 3x the projected cost.

Yeah, dream small.

[NikolasM]

Calatrava's proposal looks like it will necessitate the removal of the G pier of Terminal 3. You can dream big and not also hyperinflate your debt. Going with a non triangle shape will better integrate with the rest of the airport, pretty as his design may be. Also, if the other entrants for this contest decided to also work on the parking garage hotel area I'm sure theirs would look good too, but that is not what was asked of them.