Rural Commuter Rail

[eternallyme]

Population estimates for 2035 and 2060 for communities which would have stations in the ultimate thought (these are just my guesses, and do not include the rural area surrounding which would add more to the populations.) For comparison, I expect the old City of Ottawa to grow very slowly in the time frames, about 0.2% a year on average with some years of very slight negative growth. These assume a village and town-focused growth plan with no expansion of the urban area except in the vicinity of the corridors (I cannot make assumptions for new station areas since the population of those now is zero), although they don't necessarily assume density.

2009 - 2035 - 2060

LINE 1 (also serves north Kanata)

Carp: 1,600 - 3,400 - 6,500
Kinburn: 270 - 600 - 1,400
Galetta: 160 - 400 - 800
Arnprior: 7,500 - 10,500 - 16,700
Renfrew: 7,800 - 8,200 - 9,500

LINE 2 (also serves south Kanata and Stittsville)

Carleton Place: 10,300 - 19,200 - 35,500
Almonte: 5,200 - 6,900 - 9,300

LINE 3 (also serves Barrhaven)

Richmond: 4,600 - 6,300 - 12,200
Smiths Falls: 8,600 - 8,900 - 11,400
Perth: 6,200 - 6,800 - 7,900

LINE 4 (also serves Leitrim)

Greely: 5,200 - 7,400 - 13,500
Osgoode: 2,900 - 3,600 - 7,200
Kemptville: 4,400 - 7,900 - 17,500
Merrickville: 1,200 - 1,400 - 2,600

LINE 5

Russell: 4,100 - 6,900 - 13,500
Embrun: 6,200 - 10,200 - 21,400

LINE 6

Carlsbad Springs: 240 - 500 - 1,300
Vars: 1,100 - 1,800 - 3,200
Limoges: 2,400 - 4,600 - 9,300
Casselman: 3,500 - 5,900 - 10,200

LINE 7 (could also serve Orleans, route undefined)

Cumberland Village: 1,800 - 2,700 - 4,200
Rockland: 9,500 - 16,200 - 32,500
Plantaganet: 1,200 - 1,600 - 2,900
Alfred: 1,400 - 2,000 - 3,500

LINE 8 (also serves Gatineau)

Buckingham: 14,500 - 20,900 - 29,600
Masson: 7,500 - 12,500 - 26,500
Thurso: 2,400 - 3,700 - 5,300
Plaisance: 1,100 - 1,700 - 2,800
Papineauville: 2,200 - 2,800 - 4,000
Montebello: 1,100 - 1,900 - 3,700

LINE 9

Chelsea: 6,500 - 11,400 - 16,500
Wakefield: 1,500 - 2,900 - 5,100

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by AylmerOptimist

Actually, Aylmer had a RR until 1991. It's actually in my backyard! The only problem is that many people now live very close to it and there are a couple of parks that are now on it. It's also used a lot by pedestrians who want to get from Queen's park or the marina to Wychwood or even lower Vanier Rd.

I see LRT going down Principale either in the median, or, in old Aylmer, on the sides (it would replace the parking) or sharing the road with the few cars that pass by there then turning up on Front St. to get to Allumetières. It would get people from the North-East, the brownstone neighborhood, Front st., Old Aylmer and Glenwood.

My dream...

Personally, I think that railway through Aylmer should be the LRT line - it would serve the downtown area very well, plus some communities in Hull and the UQO. However, that is probably one of the last lines that would be built - but the ROW should be set aside for it.

[eternallyme]

Of all those corridors, the one that could be most problematic is the Rockland area line. Population should eventually warrant it for sure (within 20 years probably), but there is no abandoned corridor.

I can think of two possibilities:

1) Abandoned CPR corridor to the hydro corridor, then along the hydro corridor (shared ROW with the Cumberland Transitway) before a diagonal route to the south sides of Cumberland and Rockland.

2) Abandoned CPR corridor to Navan (adds Notre-Dame-des-Champs and Navan to the catchment area) before a sharp turn north to Rockland. Would have longer travel time from the east.

[eemy]

I think your projections are a tad optimistic, maybe not for the larger communities, but definitely for the small villages. These places usually only grow very incrementally, if at all.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I think your projections are a tad optimistic, maybe not for the larger communities, but definitely for the small villages. These places usually only grow very incrementally, if at all.

My thinking is that when commuter rail becomes available in the smaller communities, 1 or 2 new larger housing developments will appear in each of them and they will become a core part of the growing communities. Each of them would add 1,000 or more people. That is especially true for those without freeway access. Until that happens, I expect very slow growth (and that is assumed in the 2035 numbers for communities that the rail will not reach at the time and without freeway access).

The larger communities might be a bit conservative, as they would be transformed into urban subcentres of the region. Most of them would likely see first growth (if they haven't already) on freeway access, which would require commuter buses. Commuter rail would likely provide a second growth spurt.

This assumes that growth in the current Ottawa suburbs slows down eventually once built out (but remains decent) and the urban core areas grow only have slow growth.

[cityguy]

I don't really understand the rural commuter rail project,is Ottawa station the main terminal?it's no where near downtown.In most large cities it's always in the heart of the city,close to a larger office area.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by cityguy

I don't really understand the rural commuter rail project,is Ottawa station the main terminal?it's no where near downtown.In most large cities it's always in the heart of the city,close to a larger office area.

The current vague plans suggest that. However, I recommend using the old Union Station (now the Government Conference Centre), with a tunnel to the existing Transitway near Campus Station, using the existing Transitway to Hurdman (the LRT should be completely separated) and then to a diamond with the existing Ottawa Central Railway tracks. The current Ottawa Station would be decommissioned as VIA Rail could also serve the (old) new station. Since my recommended LRT station in the area is at the Mackenzie King Bridge, it would require about a 3.5% grade descent between Elgin Street and the Mackenzie King Bridge as the LRT would need to be about 20 metres below the surface to clear the commuter rail tunnel in the same area (shallower tunnel), and the Slater Street area tunnel would be about 5 metres below the surface.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I think your projections are a tad optimistic, maybe not for the larger communities, but definitely for the small villages. These places usually only grow very incrementally, if at all.

My thoughts as well. Global population is supposed to peak by mid-century, and considering they are predicting 50% population growth from now until then, I doubt Ottawa area communities could outdo the global average.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Of all those corridors, the one that could be most problematic is the Rockland area line. Population should eventually warrant it for sure (within 20 years probably), but there is no abandoned corridor.

I can think of two possibilities:

1) Abandoned CPR corridor to the hydro corridor, then along the hydro corridor (shared ROW with the Cumberland Transitway) before a diagonal route to the south sides of Cumberland and Rockland.

2) Abandoned CPR corridor to Navan (adds Notre-Dame-des-Champs and Navan to the catchment area) before a sharp turn north to Rockland. Would have longer travel time from the east.

Here is information on the two railways that once served Rockland

The CNR L'Orignal subdivision abandoned in 1939 that connected Ottawa with Rockland and Hawkesbury. http://freepages.history.rootsweb.an...o/lorignal.htm
You can see a rock cut on the south side of the Queensway as you travel east from Montreal Road interchange. Between Orleans and Rockland, the highway more or less runs on the old right of way.


The CNR Hammond subdivision abandoned in the 1930s that connected Limoges with Rockland and Clarence Creek.
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.an...ar/car/car.htm

Also, until 1946, the Hull Electric streetcar line to Aylmer ran adjacent to the CPR rail line

[eternallyme]

The LRT part is mentioned in the other thread, but the rail parts are relevant here. The line on the map represents 2 tracks, which widens out to at least 6-8 at Union Station.

7 - The Government Conference Centre would be revived as Union Station. VIA Rail would also serve the station. There would need to be at least 6-8 underground tracks (at least 1-2 reserved for VIA), and tail tracks (dotted lines) which could extend to Gatineau via the Alexandra Bridge.

8 - The tracks would narrow down to two before reaching the tunnel portal. The tunnel would be about 5-12 metres below the surface, between the surface and the LRT tracks.

9 - The tunnel portal would be at the Transitway curve.

10 - The trains would use the existing Transitway. There would be no stations along the section.

11 (not shown) - At Hurdman station, an elevated rail alignment would cross the redevelopment lands, leading to a diamond at the current Lycee Claudel school.

12 (not shown) - Lycee Claudel school would be expropriated, but a new school would be built in the Hurdman development lands at the same time, at the rail project's expenses.

Note: the regional rail project does not need to be done at the same time as LRT, but the corridors should be reserved. The existing Ottawa station would be closed. It's pretty much "back to the future" for rail in Ottawa.

[Aylmer]

That would be Awesomeness Incarnated! I have always said that we should bring trains downtown VIA (ha!ha!pun!) a tunnel.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by AylmerOptimist

That would be Awesomeness Incarnated! I have always said that we should bring trains downtown VIA (ha!ha!pun!) a tunnel.

Except only about 2 km of the route (including the tail track) is in a tunnel. Releasing the Transitway (instead of re-using it per the official plan) would open up a corridor for it.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Except only about 2 km of the route (including the tail track) is in a tunnel. Releasing the Transitway (instead of re-using it per the official plan) would open up a corridor for it.

I know! It's the least costly way to go.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by AylmerOptimist

I know! It's the least costly way to go.

I wonder if anyone at the City of Ottawa is reading this? I'm going to look into submitting that to the plan to relocate the LRT to preserve the corridor.

It would be MUCH cheaper than having to build a tunnel 3-4 km longer and under the Rideau River - that could easily cost $500 million extra, which is easily more than the extra expense for about 800m more of tunnelled LRT (which itself is compensated by going cut-and-cover in the downtown core). The only expenses outside the station area itself are the tracks, a grade separation at Riverside Drive (under Riverside and the Transitway/LRT) and a relocation of Lycee Claudel School.

It is also designed to easily be extended to Gatineau - the tunnel would extend under Major's Hill Park, emerge in time to enter the Alexandra Bridge - as the existing bridge can only accomodate a single track, the hanging deck would need to be paved and stabilized, but still would result in the loss of traffic flow unless another deck is added - the bicycle/pedestrian bridge should remain as is) and then surface, tunnel or combinations options across Hull Island to join the QGRY corridor.

[Kitchissippi]

You forget though that VIA trains are all diesel. Putting them in a lengthy tunnel with an underground station will be a problem.

It would be so much cheaper to just make VIA tickets valid on the LRT for same day travel. Likewise, if commuter rail was set up, it would be an incentive if day pass privileges were included in the ticket. Then it wouldn't matter if the train station remained where it is.

In a related circumstance, in Vancouver, some SkyTrain stations have YVR check-in, so you are good to go when you get to the airport.

[eternallyme]

Fare integration between the commuter rail and normal OC Transpo service would always be a part of the plan. The issue was eliminating the fact that a transfer would be necessary for 90% of passengers, plus a much more convenient VIA Rail station location (thank the NCC for that).

Within the urban area, commuter rail stations would be located periodically - primarily at transfer points and at major employment areas (i.e. north Kanata). Outside the urban area, they would be located in communities and important junctions (potential Park and Ride or development locations), with a minimum station spacing of 5 km being desirable.

There are two options for setting fares:

1) Zone/distance based (for example, a trip to Kemptville from downtown Ottawa would be 49 km - likely requiring a Zone 5 fare for beyond 40 but under 50 km)

2) Zone/municipality based (for the same trip, it would require an OC Transpo rural express fare plus a fare set by North Grenville)

[Dado]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

The LRT part is mentioned in the other thread, but the rail parts are relevant here. The line on the map represents 2 tracks, which widens out to at least 6-8 at Union Station.

7 - The Government Conference Centre would be revived as Union Station. VIA Rail would also serve the station. There would need to be at least 6-8 underground tracks (at least 1-2 reserved for VIA), and tail tracks (dotted lines) which could extend to Gatineau via the Alexandra Bridge.

So long as DND remains where it is, there will be no tunnels going beneath it. The unfortunate fact of the matter is that the Government Conference Centre as a rail station is now stranded.

I think an NCC-led master planning exercise for the Byward-Sandy Hill area might be in order to sort out a bunch of planning and transportation issues in one go, and that includes the Nicholas-King Edward problem (which should be buried) and what to do about DND.

[harls]

just released..

FEDERAL CONTRIBUTION FOR TRANSPORT PONTIAC-RENFREW

An investment of up to $136,000 under the National Infrastructure Knowledge Component of the Building Canada Fund

Portage-du-Fort, Quebec, December 18, 2009 – The Honourable Lawrence Cannon, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister responsible for the Outaouais and Member of Parliament for Pontiac, is pleased to announce today that the Government of Canada will provide Transport Pontiac-Renfrew with a contribution for a feasibility study under the National Infrastructure Knowledge Component (NIKC) of the Building Canada Fund (BCF).

This study will include a business case on the feasibility of a commuter train service between the regional county municipality of Pontiac, Renfrew County, and the City of Ottawa.

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Canada'S-Economic-Action-Plan-1093313.html

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by harls

just released..

Politics might be a factor (it is Cannon's riding after all), since IMO that is NOT one of the corridors that should be targeted. A route along the Beachburg Subdivision makes much more sense, since it serves a fairly large community (Arnprior) in between.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Politics might be a factor (it is Cannon's riding after all), since IMO that is NOT one of the corridors that should be targeted. A route along the Beachburg Subdivision makes much more sense, since it serves a fairly large community (Arnprior) in between.

I am not sure what you are referring to but I believe we are talking about the Beachburg subdivision here. The track crosses into Quebec just this side of Arnprior and then crosses back near Portage du Fort and then travels through Beachburg and into Pembroke. The other line that used to go to Eganville and beyond has been abandoned beyond the east edge of Arnprior.