Transit Fantasies

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Personally, I'd want the CBD triangle to be handled by three separate lines: Canada on City Centre-Granville to Waterfront, Expo on CC-G to Burrard, Hastings on Waterfront-Burrard.

Better to evenly split the transfers than to run all three through one station that won't be able to handle that kind of foot traffic.

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I've always thought maybe one day Sinclair Centre could be a second extension or second hub for the Hastings Line, Canada Line, and Expo Line for transfers between the lines. The Expo Line has a entrance within Sinclair Centre. The Canada Line also has a entrance literally across the street. Hastings also crosses in front of Sinclair Centre.

I mean, TBF, you would need to tunnel large caverns to be able to accomplish that on everywhere else other than Waterfront Station...

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Better to evenly split the transfers than to run all three through one station that won't be able to handle that kind of foot traffic.

Agreed.
If you have too many lines feeding into Waterfront,
you may exceed the transfer capacity out of Waterfront.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

I mean, TBF, you would need to tunnel large caverns to be able to accomplish that on everywhere else other than Waterfront Station...

Let's be honest, any kind of additional downtown SkyTrain would require large caverns.

[fredinno]

Here's an idea: Commuter Rail to Steveston.

I was looking at this old map of Rail Lines in Richmond:


It turns out that most of the corridors are (reasonably) well-preserved.
From Bridgeport Rd to Reagle Terminals, there is still an active minor Rail spur. Much of the ROW has been maintained as a pedestrian pathway there too.

So, I came up with this:

Commuter Rail Line to Upper Steveston T. Centre

Orange is cut and cover, Grey is double-tracked existing Rail lines, Blue are new lines, and Black are stations. Red is the new Upper Steveston Town Centre.

The commuter Rail line would connect to Commuter Rail on Marine Dr., using old Railway ROW until reaching Steveston. The Line would be a cut-and-cover from Garry St. to Moncton- with the terminus using the wide ROW as a small terminus station in a trench (or covered).

This section is probably the worst part of the entire plan.

Future Stations would be placed near Ironwood Plaza (possible densification potential), and Cambie Rd (possible future Skytrain Canada Line Relief Line connection with a Skytrain down Victoria Rd and Cambie Rd. to YVR-- and using Aberdeen Stn. to connect with the Canada Line.)

The New Upper Steveston T. Center (built mostly on SFHs) would be similar in arrangement to the Semiahmoo T. Centre- the Waterfront would be maintained as a 'historical district', while an inland town centre would be densified.


For reference, here is a Canada Line Extension to Steveston, which would also use mostly old Railway ROWs on Railway Av. and Garden City/ Granville Ave. (also mostly maintained as a wide median, or as a pedestrian path.


The Canada Line would take about 17min to get to Upper Steveston , while the Commuter Rail would take 16min.

Not really a major time-saver, but it would be much more convenient for people travelling from New West/ Surrey, as it would be able to connect with the wider Commuter Rail system, and a commuter Rail line down Marine Dr.

It would also take pressure off the Canada.


Not sure if that makes it worth it, though.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Here's an idea: Commuter Rail to Steveston.

I was looking at this old map of Rail Lines in Richmond:


It turns out that most of the corridors are (reasonably) well-preserved.
From Bridgeport Rd to Reagle Terminals, there is still an active minor Rail spur. Much of the ROW has been maintained as a pedestrian pathway there too.

So, I came up with this:

Commuter Rail Line to Upper Steveston T. Centre

Orange is cut and cover, Grey is double-tracked existing Rail lines, Blue are new lines, and Black are stations. Red is the new Upper Steveston Town Centre.

The commuter Rail line would connect to Commuter Rail on Marine Dr., using old Railway ROW until reaching Steveston. The Line would be a cut-and-cover from Garry St. to Moncton- with the terminus using the wide ROW as a small terminus station in a trench (or covered).

This section is probably the worst part of the entire plan.

Future Stations would be placed near Ironwood Plaza (possible densification potential), and Cambie Rd (possible future Skytrain Canada Line Relief Line connection with a Skytrain down Victoria Rd and Cambie Rd. to YVR-- and using Aberdeen Stn. to connect with the Canada Line.)

The New Upper Steveston T. Center (built mostly on SFHs) would be similar in arrangement to the Semiahmoo T. Centre- the Waterfront would be maintained as a 'historical district', while an inland town centre would be densified.


For reference, here is a Canada Line Extension to Steveston, which would also use mostly old Railway ROWs on Railway Av. and Garden City/ Granville Ave. (also mostly maintained as a wide median, or as a pedestrian path.


The Canada Line would take about 17min to get to Upper Steveston , while the Commuter Rail would take 16min.

Not really a major time-saver, but it would be much more convenient for people travelling from New West/ Surrey, as it would be able to connect with the wider Commuter Rail system, and a commuter Rail line down Marine Dr.

It would also take pressure off the Canada.


Not sure if that makes it worth it, though.

I'd prefer either a B-line or better yet, demolish the section between Lansdowne and Brighouse and rebuild Brighouse station with a centre platform and a tail track that allows for extension to Steveston as well as has provisions for a Spanish solution and a bus loop outside the entrance, as well as a footbridge to Richmond Centre, paid for by the new development being built there, and a food bridge to the new development being built at Brighouse Square.

[CivicBlues]

STOP.

QUOTING.

LONG.

POSTS.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

I'd prefer either a B-line or better yet, demolish the section between Lansdowne and Brighouse and rebuild Brighouse station with a centre platform and a tail track that allows for extension to Steveston as well as has provisions for a Spanish solution and a bus loop outside the entrance, as well as a footbridge to Richmond Centre, paid for by the new development being built there, and a food bridge to the new development being built at Brighouse Square.

Well, yeah, there's the obvious solutions that would be done.

This is thinking outside the box. Too outside the box?

I wonder if the cut-and-cover section and commuter Rail near houses is a killer.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Well, yeah, there's the obvious solutions that would be done.

This is thinking outside the box. Too outside the box?

I wonder if the cut-and-cover section and commuter Rail near houses is a killer.

Anything remotely underwater in Richmond deeper than a hole to plant something in your garden is further than a non-starter. It's a non-thinker.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Anything remotely underwater in Richmond deeper than a hole to plant something in your garden is further than a non-starter. It's a non-thinker.

Oh yeah, I forgot.

Though, on the other hand, CF Richmond Centre has this:

2 levels of underground parking. The minimum clearance of underground parking lots are 7ft.- so overall, 4.26m, and removing the space used up for the 2nd level of parking may give you 4.56m- a bit less than the 4.85m of a Bi-level Coach.

Landsome's Redevelopment also either has underground parking, or no parking.

The soil type is still the same in Southwest Richmond as it is in Northwest Richmond (silt) https://www.cgenarchive.org/vancouver-geomap.html

So maybe?

If not, It'll have to terminate at Moncton St.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Oh yeah, I forgot.

Though, on the other hand, CF Richmond Centre has this:

2 levels of underground parking. The minimum clearance of underground parking lots are 7ft.- so overall, 4.26m, and removing the space used up for the 2nd level of parking may give you 4.56m- a bit less than the 4.85m of a Bi-level Coach.

Landsome's Redevelopment also either has underground parking, or no parking.

The soil type is still the same in Southwest Richmond as it is in Northwest Richmond (silt) https://www.cgenarchive.org/vancouver-geomap.html

So maybe?

If not, It'll have to terminate at Moncton St.

Hold on a second. Last time I was at Richmond Centre, I didn't see any underground parking. And searches on google don't return anything.

[SpongeG]

can you do cut and cover in Richmond? its not very stable

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Hold on a second. Last time I was at Richmond Centre, I didn't see any underground parking. And searches on google don't return anything.

One, that's the redevelopment plan, so it hasn't been built yet.

Two, please clear the image links from the quote before replying. Nobody needs or wants to scroll through half a page of rehashed images.

Originally Posted by fredinno

Oh yeah, I forgot.

Though, on the other hand, CF Richmond Centre has this:

2 levels of underground parking. The minimum clearance of underground parking lots are 7ft.- so overall, 4.26m, and removing the space used up for the 2nd level of parking may give you 4.56m- a bit less than the 4.85m of a Bi-level Coach.

Landsome's Redevelopment also either has underground parking, or no parking.

The soil type is still the same in Southwest Richmond as it is in Northwest Richmond (silt) https://www.cgenarchive.org/vancouver-geomap.html

So maybe?

If not, It'll have to terminate at Moncton St.

Why CnC though? That part could easily be elevated.

Personally, I'd send the Canada down No.3 to Riverport and run a tram down Garden City -> Granville -> Railway to Steveston (viaducts where necessary). There's not much south of Brighouse or east of Kwantlen, and very little of it will be redeveloping anytime soon.

[waves]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

There's not much south of Brighouse or east of Kwantlen, and very little of it will be redeveloping anytime soon.

There's not much south or west of Steveston either.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

One, that's the redevelopment plan, so it hasn't been built yet.

Two, please clear the image links from the quote before replying. Nobody needs or wants to scroll through half a page of rehashed images.



Why CnC though? That part could easily be elevated.

Personally, I'd send the Canada down No.3 to Riverport and run a tram down Garden City -> Granville -> Railway to Steveston (viaducts where necessary). There's not much south of Brighouse or east of Kwantlen, and very little of it will be redeveloping anytime soon.

Because elevated kills any possibility of Skytrain down that section... I want to keep ROW for Skytrain, if possible.

(on the other hand, maybe you could make the commuter Rail elevated (which is taller, so would require more cutting, and thus more of a pain to cut), and putting Skytrain as the future cut... Design the viaduct so that it can accommodate cut-and-cover construction below it.

Extending the Artubus LRT down Garden City isn't a bad idea, though the Granville Ave Section though Richmond City Centre is tight. You'd either have to remove the bike lanes or a lane, and the turning lanes would be removed. Or a car lane would be removed. Choose your poison?

I wish the old River Rd. Railway ROW was kept around. It seems ideal for this sort of purpose (LRT or Commuter Rail), and goes right though the heart of Richmond's emerging City Centre.
Instead, it's been converted to a roadway.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

One, that's the redevelopment plan, so it hasn't been built yet.

Two, please clear the image links from the quote before replying. Nobody needs or wants to scroll through half a page of rehashed images.



Why CnC though? That part could easily be elevated.

Personally, I'd send the Canada down No.3 to Riverport and run a tram down Garden City -> Granville -> Railway to Steveston (viaducts where necessary). There's not much south of Brighouse or east of Kwantlen, and very little of it will be redeveloping anytime soon.

Would the redevelopment's underground parking be a nonstarter since there are no basements in Richmond?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by waves

There's not much south or west of Steveston either.

Steveston itself is enough of an anchor for a B-Line. I'm suggesting light rail because of the old ROW.

Originally Posted by fredinno

Because elevated kills any possibility of Skytrain down that section... I want to keep ROW for Skytrain, if possible.

(on the other hand, maybe you could make the commuter Rail elevated (which is taller, so would require more cutting, and thus more of a pain to cut), and putting Skytrain as the future cut... Design the viaduct so that it can accommodate cut-and-cover construction below it.

Extending the Artubus LRT down Garden City isn't a bad idea, though the Granville Ave Section though Richmond City Centre is tight. You'd either have to remove the bike lanes or a lane, and the turning lanes would be removed. Or a car lane would be removed. Choose your poison?

I wish the old River Rd. Railway ROW was kept around. It seems ideal for this sort of purpose (LRT or Commuter Rail), and goes right though the heart of Richmond's emerging City Centre.
Instead, it's been converted to a roadway.

SkyTrain'd work better going to Ladner, though. Regionally speaking - as waves pointed out - Steveston's a dead end, better suited for a semi-rapid line.

Maybe ditch the commuter rail. The track is there, but the ridership isn't, and CP is still using the track regularly. Light rail'd need a couple of lane closures, yes, but it's a much more direct route with a larger catchment; not many people needing to get to the Holiday Inn.

Well, nobody's ever accused Richmond of having good long-term planning or an urban mindset.
Although a road might work better in the near future. The only major source of ridership would be the new condos around Capstan and the Oval - everything in-between is strip malls and warehouses.

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Would the redevelopment's underground parking be a nonstarter since there are no basements in Richmond?

Apples and oranges methinks. If a parking lot at the mall floods, you take the bus or stay home. If your home floods....

[SpongeG]

Ladner is such a small community though surrounded by land that will never be redeveloped so there isn't much chance of major redevelopment happening as there will never be a population increase. It's like a gold ticket VIP train service for a select few.

[officedweller]

Yeah, there's a lot less development potential in south Richmond and South Delta due to all the farmland.

[waves]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Ladner is such a small community though surrounded by land that will never be redeveloped so there isn't much chance of major redevelopment happening as there will never be a population increase. It's like a gold ticket VIP train service for a select few.

It's not just Ladner that would get served though. With a Park and Ride station just on the south end of the new bridge, plus a terminus at the Ladner Bus Loop it would serve all of Delta, Tsawwassen (and the ferries), White Rock, South Surrey and even potentially some Langley commuters. It would be an excellent anchor point for a new Commuter Light Rail Line from the ferries, to Ladner, then South Surrey, Langley and maybe even Abbotsford and Chilliwack.

[SpongeG]

it's a lot of money though, there are better ways to spend limited funds. The kind of people who go to the ferry by bus are the kind of people who go to the ferry on a bus. Tourists will either drive on or take a charter bus. It's like a premium service for a select few.