Heavy Rail, Commuter Rail, & Intercity Transportation - Page 208

Migrant_Coconut · #**4141** Posted **Dec 1, 2022, 9:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Better call TransLink and the mayors to cancel the 9 BRT routes they're rolling out over the next 10 years

Yup, BRT will be more than useful in the other 364 days of the year when they work fine - same reason why the rest of Canada uses them despite how their buses get stuck in snow as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

10 hours
60 cm of snow

VS

The night of the 11-hour commute

The storm dumped between 10 and 20 centimetres of snow
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/11-h...s-trapped-snow

36 cm of snow in downtown Toronto, and 32 at Pearson. 13x the amount of plows as Vancouver. Shutdowns on the Gardiner and DVP, and highway and transit delays practically everywhere. Don't keep throwing stones from glass houses, and don't keep picking fights you can't win in another province's forum.

GenWhy? · #**4142** Posted **Dec 1, 2022, 11:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Why waste the money on BRT?

I thik the mayors wanted more efficient and quick transit on multiple routes to multiple cities and destinations in addition to the Langley Expo extension and the planning phase of the UBC extension (also in the 10 year plan). I says "Extending the Millennium Line from Arbutus to the University of British Columbia" but I'm 98% sure they're talking about starting the route / design etc work and not construction due to no funding commitment yet.

TransLink's 10 year plan also has expansion plans looking at Port Coquitlam and Newton in Surrey. Walking and chewing gum.

GenWhy? · #**4143** Posted **Dec 1, 2022, 11:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Yup, BRT will be more than useful in the other 364 days of the year when they work fine - same reason why the rest of Canada uses them despite how their buses get stuck in snow as well.

Ya I'm surprised Montreal, Edmonton, Winnipeg use buses at all! /s

Honestly I don't think I ever missed a bus in Edmonton due to snow but maybe had it delayed a max 20 minutes a few times as the plows were busy trying to keep up.

BRT to have run on highways with existing HOV and get efficient transit ridership between suburban municipalities is a solid cost effective move as we continue to build SkyTrain on high ridership routes / upgrade Rapid Bus routes between cities.

swimmer_spe · #**4144** Posted **Dec 1, 2022, 11:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Ya I'm surprised Montreal, Edmonton, Winnipeg use buses at all! /s

Honestly I don't think I ever missed a bus in Edmonton due to snow but maybe had it delayed a max 20 minutes a few times as the plows were busy trying to keep up.

BRT to have run on highways with existing HOV and get efficient transit ridership between suburban municipalities is a solid cost effective move as we continue to build SkyTrain on high ridership routes / upgrade Rapid Bus routes between cities.

Those 3 cities have a real way of dealing with snow. Montreal is one to be modeled after, if you can afford it.

Migrant_Coconut · #**4145** Posted **Dec 1, 2022, 11:46 PM**

Uh-huh.

Changing City · #**4146** Posted **Dec 1, 2022, 11:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Those 3 cities have a real way of dealing with snow. Montreal is one to be modeled after, if you can afford it.

The City of Montreal budget $187m a year for snow clearance, and usually spend it. All of Metro Vancouver municipalties added together budget $10m.

In a bad snow year expenditure is way more than the budget - it isn't limited to the budget, or ever a reason to not spend more if its needed. Rather, it's how much, in most years, is needed to clear snow and/or salting and gritting. Bad snow years are relatively rare.

GenWhy? · #**4147** Posted **Dec 2, 2022, 1:05 AM**

I think last year in Edmonton it got so cold the catenary wires snapped and the train rails for the LRT had to be replaced in some areas.

Yup here it is.

trofirhen · #**4148** Posted **Dec 2, 2022, 3:05 AM**

This cold snap and accompanying snow and ice have somewhat usurped the emphasis of this thread. While it's true that period cold outbreaks do happen in Vancouver in winter, they are not the norm.
In the Prairie cities of Winnipeg and Edmonton, such long periods of intense cold, severe enough to crack the rails ARE the norm, and the winters there last five months of the year.
Montreal gets cold, yes, but the real bugbear in that city is snow, and masses of it, due to the convergence of Arctic airflow and east coast humidity.
That said, Vancouver does get (under normal circumstances) several brief cold snaps per year, but the main issue here is rain. People are talking as if we have to deal with Eastern Canada cold. We don't.
If provisions can be made to deal with cold and snow when it comes (and in some years we get little or no snow) I think that the histrionics can be dispensed with.
Yes, we will need equipment to deal with snow and ice, when it comes, as now, but equally, adequate shelters from our often-relentless winter rains would be equally to the point.
I'm sure there must be a way of dealing with real winter conditions here, infrequent as they may be, while getting on with the necessary planning for more commuter rail and subway development.

swimmer_spe · #**4149** Posted **Dec 2, 2022, 3:49 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Changing City

The City of Montreal budget $187m a year for snow clearance, and usually spend it. All of Metro Vancouver municipalties added together budget $10m.

In a bad snow year expenditure is way more than the budget - it isn't limited to the budget, or ever a reason to not spend more if its needed. Rather, it's how much, in most years, is needed to clear snow and/or salting and gritting. Bad snow years are relatively rare.

The thing is, it is not just a dollar value, but it is the amount of equipment on standby when the snow comes. Montreal will plow you into where you park. They will also randomly tow your car to remove the snow. You car will be fine, just parked somewhere else. No charge for the tow either, but good luck finding your car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

I think last year in Edmonton it got so cold the catenary wires snapped and the train rails for the LRT had to be replaced in some areas.

Yup here it is.

Which is why I mention about spending to make the system more robust. For instance, the trolley buses could face the same issues. So, what can Coast Mountain learn from the ETS?

Migrant_Coconut · #**4150** Posted **Dec 2, 2022, 4:27 AM**

Edmonton's caternary cracked on a ~40 C day; Vancouver's all-time lowest was -18. Next we'll be told that CMBC should learn from Halifax about hurricane protection.

swimmer_spe · #**4151** Posted **Dec 2, 2022, 4:30 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Edmonton's caternary cracked on a ~40 C day; Vancouver's all-time lowest was -18. Next we'll be told that CMBC should learn from Halifax about hurricane protection.

All should be learning from all. for example, ETS should look to Vancouver as to how to build guideway piers. Temperature is only one of many things that cause something to break. Those other factors could have been at play and it just took that cold snap to do the damage.

Migrant_Coconut · #**4152** Posted **Dec 2, 2022, 4:37 AM**

There's learning, and then there's "learning;" even right after the Ice Age, Vancouver had a vastly different climate from Edmonton or Toronto, so not every lesson is applicable.

What should we learn? To inspect the rails and wires regularly. Every transit agency on the planet should already be doing that.

swimmer_spe · #**4153** Posted **Dec 2, 2022, 4:54 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

There's learning, and then there's "learning;" even right after the Ice Age, Vancouver had a vastly different climate from Edmonton or Toronto, so not every lesson is applicable.

What should we learn? To inspect the rails and wires regularly. Every transit agency on the planet should already be doing that.

Good point, because the Lower Mainland is prepared for the next atmospheric river or the next blizzard....

Migrant_Coconut · #**4154** Posted **Dec 2, 2022, 4:55 AM**

Toronto (and Ontario in general) sure wasn't, so there's definitely nothing to learn there.

swimmer_spe · #**4155** Posted **Dec 2, 2022, 5:25 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Toronto (and Ontario in general) sure wasn't, so there's definitely nothing to learn there.

Ontario gets atmospheric rivers?

Migrant_Coconut · #**4156** Posted **Dec 2, 2022, 5:37 AM**

Bad enough to close roads and schools and wash out highways - ON's absolutely not ready for 250mm of rain. We've already mentioned blizzards above.

swimmer_spe · #**4157** Posted **Dec 2, 2022, 5:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Bad enough to close roads and schools and wash out highways; ON's absolutely not ready for 250mm. We've already mentioned blizzards above.

We do get the odd hurricane, and because of one, Toronto removed houses from areas that were on floodplains. Now, the worst you get is the odd GO train stuck in flooded areas.....

Migrant_Coconut · #**4158** Posted **Dec 2, 2022, 5:52 AM**

"Now" would have to be "sometime after last summer" and definitely after 2019.

swimmer_spe · #**4159** Posted **Dec 2, 2022, 5:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

"Now" would have to be "sometime after last summer" and definitely after 2019.

Did whole towns flood?
Nope...

Did that rail line wash away?
Nope, it was still intact.

Migrant_Coconut · #**4160** Posted **Dec 2, 2022, 5:58 AM**

And if BC'd only gotten 100mm instead of 300, neither would ours. That's 0-1 for ON in a real flood.