Downtown Portland News

[DMH]

Originally Posted by 2oh1

Anybody who thinks downtown is really recovering needs to go to Safeway on Jefferson.

In 2002, that store was open 24 hours. Then they started closing at 2am when the store moved across the street (in order for Eliot Tower to be built on its old location).

Those 6am to 2am hours lasted until the pandemic.

After the pandemic, one would expect things to get back to normal. Instead, they keep making cutbacks and increasing security.

They started closing earlier, at midnight.

Last year, they moved alcohol and some healthcare stuff into an enclosed part of the store with its own registers to prevent theft.


This year, they cut their hours back, closing at 10pm.





This week, they closed off their 10th & Jefferson entrance. It's now emergency exit only, with the only entrance to the store being at 10th & Columbia.

And as they're locking more stuff down and cutting back hours and closing off what was the main entrance, they still have multiple security guards. I remember back in the 2000s when they didn't have any security guards.

I know a lot of people blame homelessness for the decline of safety downtown, but the bigger issue is drugs, which bring more crime.

Downtown's residential population is significantly larger than it was 20 years ago, or even a decade ago, and Safeway is always busy, yet they keep cutting back their hours due to crime.

I realize downtown crime isn't unique to Portland, but it doesn't help that Portland Police know where the problem areas are yet they do nothing.

You cannot argue with a theory that the explosion of drug use following passage of Measure 110 is a primary reason for shoplifting at the Downtown Safeway. However, I also shop occasionally at Safeways in the Pearl and near Lloyd Center. Those stores also have walled off wine and beer (inconveniently other unrelated items too) with cash registers at the entrance to control the loss. So the Downtown Safeway is not the only store with that change.

Stadium Fred Meyer has instituted a different measure. A guard stands near the exit door to check every customer's receipt, like they do at Costco.

[PhillyPDX]

Originally Posted by 2oh1

Anybody who thinks downtown is really recovering needs to go to Safeway on Jefferson.

In 2002, that store was open 24 hours. Then they started closing at 2am when the store moved across the street (in order for Eliot Tower to be built on its old location).

Those 6am to 2am hours lasted until the pandemic.

After the pandemic, one would expect things to get back to normal. Instead, they keep making cutbacks and increasing security.

They started closing earlier, at midnight.

Last year, they moved alcohol and some healthcare stuff into an enclosed part of the store with its own registers to prevent theft.

This year, they cut their hours back, closing at 10pm.

This week, they closed off their 10th & Jefferson entrance. It's now emergency exit only, with the only entrance to the store being at 10th & Columbia.

And as they're locking more stuff down and cutting back hours and closing off what was the main entrance, they still have multiple security guards. I remember back in the 2000s when they didn't have any security guards.

I know a lot of people blame homelessness for the decline of safety downtown, but the bigger issue is drugs, which bring more crime.

Downtown's residential population is significantly larger than it was 20 years ago, or even a decade ago, and Safeway is always busy, yet they keep cutting back their hours due to crime.

I realize downtown crime isn't unique to Portland, but it doesn't help that Portland Police know where the problem areas are yet they do nothing.

Maybe because it's hard to actually pin crimes on people, or that going after low dealers isn't really effective? Reminds me of the story my wife had from jury duty in Philly. Vice cops monitoring obvious drug activities, and were set on getting the next guy up the ladder (not the addicts doing the peddling on the street which get replaced in hours). Get their guy, think they have enough evidence goes to court, and gets off in a jury trial. Per my wife, he was clearly very guilty, but we have laws and due process and he got off (correctly). Judge talks to them after the trial, they've been trying to pin this guy (judge knows he's guilty as well), it's the 12th time he's been in, but he was always one small step ahead and they have to release him. "He'll be back in within the year." It's incredibly hard to stop this stuff when you actually have to follow legal processes (which we should).

[sopdx]

I take 405 often as I live in NW Portland. The graffiti on the signage seems like it has been there for years. The cross-hatching idiot's work mars almost every sign.
ODOT has done nothing. I read once - probably a year ago- that they have sign replacements on a schedule. I'm not sure if that is why the graffiti remains.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by DMH

M&S has had a long run at that Riverplace location. Its closure could be that Riverplace foot traffic is too seasonal or that M&S is a bit old hat. In the early 1980s when I worked in the historic Failing Building at SW 1st & Oak, the original, the first, the only McCormick & Schmick was on the ground floor. The very new and popular bar was where coworkers hung out after hours. It was a sad day when the M&S corporate owner decided to close the very first McCormick & Schmick. Life hands us many disappointments.

In Riverplace, that high-profile corner may offer a great opportunity for another restaurant entrepreneur.

M&S has pretty much been dead to me since they sold out to Landry's, so I am surprised any of their locations still exist today. Thankfully the two Jake's restaurants still exist.

[downtownpdx]

Originally Posted by 2oh1

Anybody who thinks downtown is really recovering needs to go to Safeway on Jefferson.

In 2002, that store was open 24 hours. Then they started closing at 2am when the store moved across the street (in order for Eliot Tower to be built on its old location).

Those 6am to 2am hours lasted until the pandemic.

After the pandemic, one would expect things to get back to normal. Instead, they keep making cutbacks and increasing security.

They started closing earlier, at midnight.

Last year, they moved alcohol and some healthcare stuff into an enclosed part of the store with its own registers to prevent theft.

This year, they cut their hours back, closing at 10pm.

This week, they closed off their 10th & Jefferson entrance. It's now emergency exit only, with the only entrance to the store being at 10th & Columbia.

And as they're locking more stuff down and cutting back hours and closing off what was the main entrance, they still have multiple security guards. I remember back in the 2000s when they didn't have any security guards.

I know a lot of people blame homelessness for the decline of safety downtown, but the bigger issue is drugs, which bring more crime.

Downtown's residential population is significantly larger than it was 20 years ago, or even a decade ago, and Safeway is always busy, yet they keep cutting back their hours due to crime.

I realize downtown crime isn't unique to Portland, but it doesn't help that Portland Police know where the problem areas are yet they do nothing.

I don't know if you saw the Willamette Week article including a bunch of letters to Governor Kotek re: the suspension of bottle the drop at Safeway and Plaid Pantry about a month ago. (Or rather, they aren't required to offer it for a while, as a test run). Several locals from the neighborhood seemed to notice a significant improvement in the area since the quick cash from empty bottles was no longer easily available for the drugs.... Just curious what your impressions are. I guess people are emailing her office begging for this to be a permanent change.

[2oh1]

Originally Posted by downtownpdx

Just curious what your impressions are. I guess people are emailing her office begging for this to be a permanent change.

It's better for sure, but the neighborhood still feels like it's sliding backwards in terms of safety, especially after dark.

Originally Posted by PhillyPDX

Maybe because it's hard to actually pin crimes on people, or that going after low dealers isn't really effective?

Sure, but making it easier to commit crime leads to more people committing crime because it's easy.

Making it harder to commit crime won't end crime, but it will at least reduce crime, which is better than what we have now.

Here's an easy example:

Portland Police know the Plaid Pantry on SW 11th & Jefferson is a problem. Instead of patrolling to push the dealers out, the police let the dealers set up shop, with zero hindrance, day and night.

Coava Coffee closed their shop across the street.

Amazon Prime closed their location across the street.

The little store in the Cornerstone Condos building closed after being there over a decade.

The dry cleaner in the Cornerstone Condos building closed after being there over a decade.

To the best of my knowledge, none of those vacant spaces have been leased. I'd walk over there now to check, but it's dark and not safe.

I'm not asking for easy answers to long term problems. I'm pleading for an ounce of prevention.

Portland Police know what the problem is and they know where it is. They do nothing.

That's why ambulances haul away OD'ed addicts regularly in that parking lot.

Making it harder to deal drugs won't end the drug epidemic, but doing nothing will make the drug epidemic worse. It absolutely, unquestionably, undeniably will.

Triage.

Recognize the difference between long term needs and short term emergencies. When a house is on fire, it's not the time to debate whether the HVAC system can make it through another summer. Put the effing fire out.

"Hey Bob, your car is really nice. But I noticed you've got a small dent in your rear fender, I think your passenger side mirror is smudged, oh and just so you know, it's getting towed away."

Yes, we absolutely need to address Portland's long term problems, and I hope that's a major focus of this year's local elections, but right now as I type this, there's a police car zooming up the street, probably en route to deal with an emergency that might have been avoided with just one freaking ounce of prevention. They know where the trouble spots are. Patrol them.

I know this isn't what anybody on this forum wants to talk about. We love to pat ourselves on the back, looking for any excuse to point out how things are getting better, even if they're not, because we love our city. And I do dearly love Portland. But denial is not how you show love. Denial is how you accept decay, and the acceptance of decay accelerates decay.

...and right on cue, here comes a fire truck, which means an ambulance is on the way too.

My biggest fear is that some right wing Trumpian nutjob is going to run for mayor at some point AND WIN by campaigning on "I alone can fix it" nonsense. Don't think it can't happen here.

[PhillyPDX]

Talking to a parent couple I know last night. They moved from SE to NE to move away from the two bottle drops near Hawthorne/Cesar Chavez (apparently were located between both). It’s crazy how much the recycling initiative has turned to utter chaos. That people would (understandably, with kids) move or choose their house location based on this factor? Damn.

[DMH]

Originally Posted by PhillyPDX

Talking to a parent couple I know last night. They moved from SE to NE to move away from the two bottle drops near Hawthorne/Cesar Chavez (apparently were located between both). It’s crazy how much the recycling initiative has turned to utter chaos. That people would (understandably, with kids) move or choose their house location based on this factor? Damn.

I am puzzled about the bottle return problem. Maybe the system differs at various supermarkets. I have my green BottleDrop card and I fill my green BottleDrop bags with bottles and cans. I go to Stadium Fred Meyer with filled bags, scan my green card, and drop the bag down a chute. It takes a while for those returns to get counted and be applied to my account. Maybe a couple weeks go by. I do not see how this system can work for someone who wants fast cash to buy drugs.

[subterranean]

There are two separate methods to return.

The first, which is, and has been, and complete clusterfuck and boondoggle in terms of implementation, is the super market kiosk/drop off ports. Probably 2/3rds of the time I’ve used attempted to use this method over the last several years, either the kiosk is broken, out of bag tags, or the can bin is completely full and you can’t squeeze your bags into it. I even had bags not credited, likely because someone opened the bin and stuck their own QR codes on them.

The second method is the actual Bottle Drop redemption centers. These line up with homeless and drug addicted because you can get your money right then and there. The entire operation is processing returnables.

[downtownpdx]

Originally Posted by 2oh1

It's better for sure, but the neighborhood still feels like it's sliding backwards in terms of safety, especially after dark.




Sure, but making it easier to commit crime leads to more people committing crime because it's easy.

Making it harder to commit crime won't end crime, but it will at least reduce crime, which is better than what we have now.

Here's an easy example:

Portland Police know the Plaid Pantry on SW 11th & Jefferson is a problem. Instead of patrolling to push the dealers out, the police let the dealers set up shop, with zero hindrance, day and night.

Coava Coffee closed their shop across the street.

Amazon Prime closed their location across the street.

The little store in the Cornerstone Condos building closed after being there over a decade.

The dry cleaner in the Cornerstone Condos building closed after being there over a decade.

To the best of my knowledge, none of those vacant spaces have been leased. I'd walk over there now to check, but it's dark and not safe.

I'm not asking for easy answers to long term problems. I'm pleading for an ounce of prevention.

Portland Police know what the problem is and they know where it is. They do nothing.

That's why ambulances haul away OD'ed addicts regularly in that parking lot.

Making it harder to deal drugs won't end the drug epidemic, but doing nothing will make the drug epidemic worse. It absolutely, unquestionably, undeniably will.

Triage.

Recognize the difference between long term needs and short term emergencies. When a house is on fire, it's not the time to debate whether the HVAC system can make it through another summer. Put the effing fire out.

"Hey Bob, your car is really nice. But I noticed you've got a small dent in your rear fender, I think your passenger side mirror is smudged, oh and just so you know, it's getting towed away."

Yes, we absolutely need to address Portland's long term problems, and I hope that's a major focus of this year's local elections, but right now as I type this, there's a police car zooming up the street, probably en route to deal with an emergency that might have been avoided with just one freaking ounce of prevention. They know where the trouble spots are. Patrol them.

I know this isn't what anybody on this forum wants to talk about. We love to pat ourselves on the back, looking for any excuse to point out how things are getting better, even if they're not, because we love our city. And I do dearly love Portland. But denial is not how you show love. Denial is how you accept decay, and the acceptance of decay accelerates decay.

...and right on cue, here comes a fire truck, which means an ambulance is on the way too.

My biggest fear is that some right wing Trumpian nutjob is going to run for mayor at some point AND WIN by campaigning on "I alone can fix it" nonsense. Don't think it can't happen here.

I don’t think it’s fair to say no one on this forum wants to talk about crime. I live on the outer east side and the 7-11 near us is a shit show of drug addicts right in the open on a busy street. 2 miles away another one has been cleaned up and fenced off in the former tent area, and from passing by it seems perfectly fine now. I certainly don’t think Portland is doing great and we’re solving all our problems, but I do highlight the positive once in a while like the governor’s attempt at quelling the Safeway issue downtown.

Perhaps… perhaps we’ll see more progress starting in September. The rewriting of measure 110 immediately directs more resources to rehab etc. But the actual criminal penalties go into effect in September, and while that’s not a silver bullet it’s going to put a dent in this blatant open drug use we’ve dealt with over the past few years. Possessing small amounts of hard drugs will actually lead to jail time & huge fines, rather than this $100 ticket “or call this number for help to waive the fine” nonsense that a whopping 2% or something used. Btw I know we look at Seattle a lot for comparisons, and they have a much larger city center with a massive residential population, but they have seen a doubling of fentanyl overdoses downtown in the past year, so this isn’t isolated to Portland.

[DMH]

Originally Posted by subterranean

There are two separate methods to return.

The first, which is, and has been, and complete clusterfuck and boondoggle in terms of implementation, is the super market kiosk/drop off ports. Probably 2/3rds of the time I’ve used attempted to use this method over the last several years, either the kiosk is broken, out of bag tags, or the can bin is completely full and you can’t squeeze your bags into it. I even had bags not credited, likely because someone opened the bin and stuck their own QR codes on them.

The second method is the actual Bottle Drop redemption centers. These line up with homeless and drug addicted because you can get your money right then and there. The entire operation is processing returnables.

OK, so I have been operating with the so-called clusterfuck boondoggle version for years now, and it works fine at Stadium Fred Meyer.

I suggest that the second method be ended so that the it does not continue the funding of the drug trade.

[PhillyPDX]

Originally Posted by downtownpdx

I don’t think it’s fair to say no one on this forum wants to talk about crime. I live on the outer east side and the 7-11 near us is a shit show of drug addicts right in the open on a busy street. 2 miles away another one has been cleaned up and fenced off in the former tent area, and from passing by it seems perfectly fine now. I certainly don’t think Portland is doing great and we’re solving all our problems, but I do highlight the positive once in a while like the governor’s attempt at quelling the Safeway issue downtown.

Perhaps… perhaps we’ll see more progress starting in September. The rewriting of measure 110 immediately directs more resources to rehab etc. But the actual criminal penalties go into effect in September, and while that’s not a silver bullet it’s going to put a dent in this blatant open drug use we’ve dealt with over the past few years. Possessing small amounts of hard drugs will actually lead to jail time & huge fines, rather than this $100 ticket “or call this number for help to waive the fine” nonsense that a whopping 2% or something used. Btw I know we look at Seattle a lot for comparisons, and they have a much larger city center with a massive residential population, but they have seen a doubling of fentanyl overdoses downtown in the past year, so this isn’t isolated to Portland.

I often read articles about "Washington has huge OD increase too, it's not just 110 so it can't be 110 that caused it", but I never see mentioned that WA State vs Blake effectively legalized possession in Washington in 2021. So while there isn't a state law like 110, the courts effectively legalized it there too.

[downtownpdx]

Originally Posted by DMH

OK, so I have been operating with the so-called clusterfuck boondoggle version for years now, and it works fine at Stadium Fred Meyer.

I suggest that the second method be ended so that the it does not continue the funding of the drug trade.

Totally agree. I haven’t used bottle drop but I just seems like a simple bar code should print out, to be used like the food stamp program.

[uncommon.name]

Originally Posted by DMH

You cannot argue with a theory that the explosion of drug use following passage of Measure 110 is a primary reason for shoplifting at the Downtown Safeway. However, I also shop occasionally at Safeways in the Pearl and near Lloyd Center. Those stores also have walled off wine and beer (inconveniently other unrelated items too) with cash registers at the entrance to control the loss. So the Downtown Safeway is not the only store with that change.

Stadium Fred Meyer has instituted a different measure. A guard stands near the exit door to check every customer's receipt, like they do at Costco.

The Fred Meyer just off of the Cornelius Pass Rd and US 26 in Hillsboro has put up loss prevention gates at the doors that close if someone tries to shoplift. I haven't been to other locations to see if they also have them, but I imagine those would make it nearly impossible to get a cart through.

[DMH]

Originally Posted by downtownpdx

Totally agree. I haven’t used bottle drop but I just seems like a simple bar code should print out, to be used like the food stamp program.

Furthermore, when I log on to redeem from my account at Fred Meyer, I always choose to spend it in the store, and FM redeems at 12¢ for every 10¢ bottle refund. Maybe others do not know of this benefit.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by subterranean

There are two separate methods to return.

The first, which is, and has been, and complete clusterfuck and boondoggle in terms of implementation, is the super market kiosk/drop off ports. Probably 2/3rds of the time I’ve used attempted to use this method over the last several years, either the kiosk is broken, out of bag tags, or the can bin is completely full and you can’t squeeze your bags into it. I even had bags not credited, likely because someone opened the bin and stuck their own QR codes on them.

The second method is the actual Bottle Drop redemption centers. These line up with homeless and drug addicted because you can get your money right then and there. The entire operation is processing returnables.

I feel like Milwaukie is a bubble when it comes to this, or this isn't an issue outside of Multnomah County, but our bottle drop that I go to frequently doesn't have this issue or at least not noticeable to the average person that uses the bottle drop.

[2oh1]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

I feel like Milwaukie is a bubble when it comes to this, or this isn't an issue outside of Multnomah County, but our bottle drop that I go to frequently doesn't have this issue or at least not noticeable to the average person that uses the bottle drop.

The bottle drop sites aren't the problem.

The Bottle Bill was signed in 1971. The fact that it only became a problem recently serves as proof that bottle drop sites are not the problem. They're a symptom of a larger problem that isn't being dealt with, and this conversation is a perfect example of why. Look how quickly the conversation steered away from drugs & policing to instead focus on ooh ooh easy quick fix problem solved.

Everybody wants a quick fix. Nobody wants to address the real problem.

Don't get me wrong... I hope those bottle drop sites never come back (they've only been temporarily halted if I'm not mistaken), but they are not the problem. They're just a symptom.

It's 10pm. Why is there a team of dudes hanging out in front of the Paid Pantry? Everybody knows why they're there. The police know too, and they don't care.

[downtownpdx]

Originally Posted by 2oh1

The bottle drop sites aren't the problem.

The Bottle Bill was signed in 1971. The fact that it only became a problem recently serves as proof that bottle drop sites are not the problem. They're a symptom of a larger problem that isn't being dealt with, and this conversation is a perfect example of why. Look how quickly the conversation steered away from drugs & policing to instead focus on ooh ooh easy quick fix problem solved.

Everybody wants a quick fix. Nobody wants to address the real problem.

Don't get me wrong... I hope those bottle drop sites never come back (they've only been temporarily halted if I'm not mistaken), but they are not the problem. They're just a symptom.

It's 10pm. Why is there a team of dudes hanging out in front of the Paid Pantry? Everybody knows why they're there. The police know too, and they don't care.

Totally agree, but c’mon no one is saying “problem solved” - in a perfect world we’d have more than enough public defenders, strict laws against dealing, public use and possession and police who enforce them, & vast rehab and detox resources… and there are efforts to make progress on all this, even though it’s waaay too slow and waaayv too late. But recognizing the public good from a bottle drop closure doesn’t mean mistaking that as a substitute for really fixing the lack of enforcement and resources. It’s just a trial run to see if this is one way to lessen the public safety impact of public drug use, and because it doesn’t solve the root of the problem doesn’t make it insignificant. Let’s just hope things start to turn around when possession laws take effect in September.

[babs]

Originally Posted by downtownpdx

Totally agree, but c’mon no one is saying “problem solved” - in a perfect world we’d have more than enough public defenders, strict laws against dealing, public use and possession and police who enforce them, & vast rehab and detox resources… and there are efforts to make progress on all this, even though it’s waaay too slow and waaayv too late. But recognizing the public good from a bottle drop closure doesn’t mean mistaking that as a substitute for really fixing the lack of enforcement and resources. It’s just a trial run to see if this is one way to lessen the public safety impact of public drug use, and because it doesn’t solve the root of the problem doesn’t make it insignificant. Let’s just hope things start to turn around when possession laws take effect in September.

With curbside recycling available everywhere, and was not available in 1971 when the bottle bill passed, do we still need the bottle deposit program? If we do keep it, the 30+ million that the bottle distributors collect from unredeemed deposits should go towards homeless services.

[MarkDaMan]

Originally Posted by babs

With curbside recycling available everywhere, and was not available in 1971 when the bottle bill passed, do we still need the bottle deposit program? If we do keep it, the 30+ million that the bottle distributors collect from unredeemed deposits should go towards homeless services.

It was a punch in gut when I read recently that the OBRC returned excess funds to the bottlers. Should be a government run program with excess returns going back to the community.