PHILADELPHIA | The Arthaus @ 311 S. Broad | 542 FT | 47 FLOORS - Page 22

Larry King · #**421** Posted **Feb 9, 2016, 7:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arch+Eng

We were bidding on SLS Q3 2015...so im sure they already have their low/favored numbers and are ready to go.

what does your company do?

summersm343 · #**422** Posted **Feb 9, 2016, 9:25 PM**

Quote:

Dranoff, who has already gotten approvals to build an SLS hotel at the corner of Broad and Spruce, where the Philadelphia International Records headquarters used to be. That project is currently stalled while state lawmakers negotiate or fail to negotiate a budget; it received state subsidies that haven’t been released, according to Jennings’ report.

http://planphilly.com/articles/2016/...broad-and-pine

boxbot · #**423** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 2:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

http://planphilly.com/articles/2016/...broad-and-pine

How much are they counting on from the state? It's so significant that the project cannot start without it?

Cro Burnham · #**424** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 3:39 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxbot

How much are they counting on from the state? It's so significant that the project cannot start without it?

I agree. Sounds kind of like BS to me. A RACP grant should not make or break a deal of thid size.

Knight Hospitaller · #**425** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 3:54 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

I agree. Sounds kind of like BS to me. A RACP grant should not make or break a deal of thid size.

Am I just being nervous when I note that SLS here and Hyde down the street are not exactly established brands? I have to wonder how "real" these projects are if this is at a standstill because a fraction of the financing is hung up due to Governor Wolf.

Philly-Drew · #**426** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 5:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxbot

How much are they counting on from the state? It's so significant that the project cannot start without it?

Excellent question. I wonder what that number is.

I will say that Dranoff's strongest hand in ensuring he gets the subsidy, is by not starting the project until the subsidy is approved. That is especially true when looking at it through the lens of politics.

looper121 · #**427** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 5:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

I agree. Sounds kind of like BS to me. A RACP grant should not make or break a deal of thid size.

It could if the grant is substantial, we're talking millions...

1487 · #**428** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 1:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly-Drew

Excellent question. I wonder what that number is.

I will say that Dranoff's strongest hand in ensuring he gets the subsidy, is by not starting the project until the subsidy is approved. That is especially true when looking at it through the lens of politics.

it's not a huge % of total construction budget. I think it was in the $15-$20M range from what i recall. There should be an inquirer story that mentions it along with several other grants for City projects.

Larry King · #**429** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 1:14 PM**

It's weird a luxury hotel/ condo project is getting racp money anyway.. I know that no hotels get built in cc without subsidy but come on is this really what the state should be throwing tax dollars at

jsbrook · #**430** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 1:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

Am I just being nervous when I note that SLS here and Hyde down the street are not exactly established brands? I have to wonder how "real" these projects are if this is at a standstill because a fraction of the financing is hung up due to Governor Wolf.

I can't speak to the financing issue or if that's a smokescreen for something. But they are established brands. At least SLS is. And one of the cooler, more fun hotel brands in the country.

allovertown · #**431** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 1:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

Am I just being nervous when I note that SLS here and Hyde down the street are not exactly established brands? I have to wonder how "real" these projects are if this is at a standstill because a fraction of the financing is hung up due to the Pennsylvania legislature

It's not that these projects are made or broken by this funding, it's that it must appear that way. That's just basic politics. They get this money by touting the benefit they'll have for the public and asking for money to make it happen. The whole idea is that this stuff can't get done without this money otherwise why would it be given to them? If they start before they have the funds they lose all leverage in ever getting them.

Flyers2001 · #**432** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 2:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by allovertown

It's not that these projects are made or broken by this funding, it's that it must appear that way. That's just basic politics. They get this money by touting the benefit they'll have for the public and asking for money to make it happen. The whole idea is that this stuff can't get done without this money otherwise why would it be given to them? If they start before they have the funds they lose all leverage in ever getting them.

Isn't it sad? Not hating the player (Dranoff), hating the game (politics).

Cro Burnham · #**433** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 2:20 PM**

$15-$20 million, if that is the number, is a big deal, even for this size project. I can understand the delay. I was assuming it was more in the $2-$5 million range.

I love thus project, but I know in my heart it should not be getting this money. People are building great buildings all over town without such subsidies. This one has the best design, hands down, which I suppose is part of what the public is paying for.

But the bottom line is the public should not be in the business of buying great designs for private buildings when, eg, schools are going begging.

1487 · #**434** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 4:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

$15-$20 million, if that is the number, is a big deal, even for this size project. I can understand the delay. I was assuming it was more in the $2-$5 million range.

I love thus project, but I know in my heart it should not be getting this money. People are building great buildings all over town without such subsidies. This one has the best design, hands down, which I suppose is part of what the public is paying for.

But the bottom line is the public should not be in the business of buying great designs for private buildings when, eg, schools are going begging.

this is capital grant money. Has nothing to do with operating funds for schools.

cjPhilly · #**435** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 4:17 PM**

In 2014 he requested $10 million and got nothing. In 2015 he requested $20 million, but I don't think they have released the list of "winners" yet due to the budget mess. At least I couldn't find it anywhere.

For requests that big, the State rarely awards more than 50% of the requested amount (in 2014 Comcast requested $25 million for CITC and got $10 million). I'd be interested to know why Dranoff thinks he has a better chance of getting money this time around compared to last, and enough so that he doubled the ask...

Cro Burnham · #**436** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 4:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487

this is capital grant money. Has nothing to do with operating funds for schools.

I understand that. Note the use of "eg", meaning, "for example".

In any event, the comment was speaking to the principal of the matter: that the State should not be in the business of buying beautiful designs for luxury buildings that will be owned by private citizens, given that the State is short money for loads of high priority public needs . . . . .eg, schools, and many other things as well.

As skyscraper geeks, we all love this stuff, and kind of try to ignore the truth of the matter, but really public money should not be directed to deals like this. It's really ridiculous if you think about it too much.

Such is life. I realize these deals will go on, so we as Philadelphians have to hope they jockey for more of the money being spent here vs., say., some dump like Altoona.

boxbot · #**437** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 6:21 PM**

Shouldn't have been allowed to do demo without 100% of funding in place.

jsbrook · #**438** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 7:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxbot

Shouldn't have been allowed to do demo without 100% of funding in place.

As I understand it, the state subsidies for this project are already approved and are GUARANTEED. They are not part of the budget negotiations, They just can't be released until there is a passed budget. This long of an impasse is unprecedented. We've never before rolled up on deadlines for setting the next years budget without having passed one for the previous year. It's really atrocious.

jsbrook · #**439** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 7:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjPhilly

In 2014 he requested $10 million and got nothing. In 2015 he requested $20 million, but I don't think they have released the list of "winners" yet due to the budget mess. At least I couldn't find it anywhere.

For requests that big, the State rarely awards more than 50% of the requested amount (in 2014 Comcast requested $25 million for CITC and got $10 million). I'd be interested to know why Dranoff thinks he has a better chance of getting money this time around compared to last, and enough so that he doubled the ask...

Me too. I thought whatever number he got, though, is approved and secured already and it's just a matter of not being able to be released until a budget is approved. I could be wrong.

Knight Hospitaller · #**440** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 7:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbrook

I can't speak to the financing issue or if that's a smokescreen for something. But they are established brands. At least SLS is. And one of the cooler, more fun hotel brands in the country.

I guess it depends upon what you mean by established. There are only a few SLS Lux hotels and no Hyde Hotels (yet).