WINNIPEG | Portage Place Redevelopment

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by cslusarc

Is there a large enough storefront on Graham (near Kennedy) to accomodate a full-sized Shoppers' with a Beauty Botique?

There is...in the 90s and until the mid 2000s.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Portage is now the medical and social services street which is fine as thats what it has become and needs those services. Graham appears to be the street the city aims to gentrify with True North Square and the New plans laid out last week. It makes sense to have the little retail that was on Portage to be brought under one roof at city place. The scale of city place works much better as the retail hub for downtown to serve the business people there coupled with a renovated Winnipeg Square would be nice. Who knows maybe one day they can bring a cinema back to city place like in the 80s.

If you include Quest Medical Centre on Ellice and Carlton behind Portage Place and the Air Canada Building, then it definitely links the medical cluster aspects of the area if/when this renovation goes ahead.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

There is...in the 90s and until the mid 2000s.

Seems to me that there is plenty of retail space along Graham. What you'd need is a landlord motivated enough to rearrange their space for a Shoppers Drug Mart. Or alternatively, do what is done in the suburbs... build a new structure. The Medical Arts Building parking lot would be the perfect spot. Or diagonally across where Thom Bargen sits now... it is easy to imagine a new building that accommodates both a SDM and Thom Bargen.

Space is not something that is really in short supply in downtown Winnipeg...

[thurmas]

I actually think there's a lot of potential for Graham. The scale is much better it connects directly with the business cluster at Winnipeg Square and if you were to focus downtown retail there for Monday to Friday I think it could work reasonably well. A barber shop some clothing stores a salon and maybe a small cinema would really fit nicely there and would only really require 2 floors of space not a massive white elephant like Portage Place.

[pspeid]

[QUOTE=Luisito;9949544]

I agree people need social srvices but how has that worked out on Selkirk Ave?Has that street been "revitalized"? if we are being 100% honest, most people don't want to interact with homless, people that are visibly intoxicated or bothering people for money.

I agree, that's why it's a positive step to have some sort of facility/services there to help those people. Do I think it's a cure-all? No, that's such a huge issue I don't think any one or group of civic initiatives will "solve" a problem that has been growing in many cities across north America. I do think it's much better, at this time, than trying to re-fill the mall with shops, boarding the place up or tearing it down, and my tiny brain can't imagine what else might go there.



Good luck with that.

Yep, it will take some luck and some people willing to take a chance, like small business entrepreneurs, as well as people willing to go out of their way to support a new business.

[Luisito]

[QUOTE=pspeid;9949937]

Originally Posted by Luisito

Yep, it will take some luck and some people willing to take a chance, like small business entrepreneurs, as well as people willing to go out of their way to support a new business.

That would be great. That's exactly what we should have in the heart of downtown instead of "drop in centres". We need businessess that generate employment and tax revenue. Business that actually draw people in both local and tourist and not feel like they are going out of their way.

Who is going to pay to run these drop in centres? Who will pay to for the employees, counselors, maintenance, security etc etc?

[pspeid]

[QUOTE=Luisito;9949992]

Originally Posted by pspeid

That would be great. That's exactly what we should have in the heart of downtown instead of "drop in centres". We need businessess that generate employment and tax revenue. Business that actually draw people in both local and tourist and not feel like they are going out of their way.

Why can't we have both? IMO there's a need for both, and there's plenty of retail space available.

Who is going to pay to run these drop in centres? Who will pay to for the employees, counselors, maintenance, security etc etc?

Well, who pays for the medical services that are going to be made available at PP? I imagine it will come from provincial taxes, and perhaps from charities that specialize in funding such places. I don't know if the Wpg. Foundation does this or not (any help out there??) , but they might be an example of a charitable funding model.

Having properly run drop-in centres contribute to the medical and physical health of the people using it, just like the dialysis facilities will. Helping to reduce (not eliminate) the effects of homelessness, addictions, mental illness, and issues related to poverty, the things contributing to the homelessness we see on the streets are an important piece of the range of services needed to get some of those people off the streets.

There are plenty of links to reports on drop-in centers on-line. Take a look to answer many of your questions.

[Luisito]

[QUOTE=pspeid;9950009]

Originally Posted by Luisito

Well, who pays for the medical services that are going to be made available at PP? I imagine it will come from provincial taxes, and perhaps from charities that specialize in funding such places. I don't know if the Wpg. Foundation does this or not (any help out there??) , but they might be an example of a charitable funding model.

Having properly run drop-in centres contribute to the medical and physical health of the people using it, just like the dialysis facilities will. Helping to reduce (not eliminate) the effects of homelessness, addictions, mental illness, and issues related to poverty, the things contributing to the homelessness we see on the streets are an important piece of the range of services needed to get some of those people off the streets.

There are plenty of links to reports on drop-in centers on-line. Take a look to answer many of your questions.

This is not improving or changing things downtow, this is keeping the status quo. Nice shiny new buildings but no real change on the ground. The only reason these drop in centres are being put in at this location is because "community activist" were complaining about losing a "gathering place". it's pure politics and now tax payers will have to pay for it.


I don't think it's fair to ask entrepreneurs to invest next to these locations or ask people to comeback downtown (go out of their way like you said) when there will be no real change to the area. Business owners fled Chinatown in part for this very reason. About a block away from chinatown, I have seen with my own eyes the last few remaining businessess leave that block on Main between logan and higgins. Look at thunder bird house on Main and higgins, its a disaster. Why are we hell bent on doing the same to the rest of downtown?

[pegcityboy]

Well with utmost positivity let’s hope the drop in centres and The Bay DONT turn into in the Thunderbird House fiasco or else Downtown will be no better off , it actually could be worse if Portage Ave significant developments turn into Main between Logan and Higgins . I am somewhat cautiously optimistic as of now on the developments .

[pspeid]

[QUOTE=Luisito;9950067]

Originally Posted by pspeid

This is not improving or changing things downtow, this is keeping the status quo. Nice shiny new buildings but no real change on the ground. The only reason these drop in centres are being put in at this location is because "community activist" were complaining about losing a "gathering place". it's pure politics and now tax payers will have to pay for it.

Well first off, no, you don't actually "know" it's doing "nothing" to change things downtown, as the facilities haven't been built yet. You assume they will do nothing, (and perhaps even hope they will do nothing, but I'm really hoping I'm wrong about that). Either way, big difference. I agree that activists were very vocal in pushing for a "gathering place" for the Starlight proposal. How much influence did they have with TNSE? I didn't sit in on their board meetings, so I don't know. My impression of TNSE is that they are not a bunch of gullible idiots, that they did some legitimate research before making this proposal, and they genuinely want to make a positive impact on the social issues they see downtown. It's entirely possible they looked at the data available, and agreed that drop-in centres would be a positive step towards this, without being bamboozled by "politics". To me, they seem smarter than that


I don't think it's fair to ask entrepreneurs to invest next to these locations or ask people to comeback downtown (go out of their way like you said) when there will be no real change to the area. Business owners fled Chinatown in part for this very reason. About a block away from chinatown, I have seen with my own eyes the last few remaining businessess leave that block on Main between logan and higgins. Look at thunder bird house on Main and higgins, its a disaster. Why are we hell bent on doing the same to the rest of downtown?

Again "there will be no change in the area" is, at best, your assumption and, at worst, your desire (again, i'm hoping this is not the case). I don't think you can compare the scale and expertise with the forces behind Thunderbird House with the scale and expertise of TSNE, the city, the province, the Richardsons, and everyone else who supports this project. My assumption is that they are not imbeciles, and they have more information to base their decisions about PP on that I have at my disposal, and feel very strongly that they can make this project work in both it's economic and social goals.

The fact remains, there is currently no other realistic plan for Portage Place, other than boarding it up or tearing it down. The issues of homelessness, mental and physical health and addiction issues that are visible downtown also need to be addressed. Unless one is seriously suggesting prison, deportation or mass execution as a solution (and I REALLY hope you aren't suggesting this), then providing health care services, while imperfect, is the best option for trying to make the downtown an attractive destination again.

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by pspeid

Again "there will be no change in the area" is, at best, your assumption and, at worst, your desire (again, i'm hoping this is not the case). I don't think you can compare the scale and expertise with the forces behind Thunderbird House with the scale and expertise of TSNE, the city, the province, the Richardsons, and everyone else who supports this project. My assumption is that they are not imbeciles, and they have more information to base their decisions about PP on that I have at my disposal, and feel very strongly that they can make this project work in both it's economic and social goals.

Great, let's make this personal as usual. So TSNE are mental health and addiction experts now?

The fact remains, there is currently no other realistic plan for Portage Place, other than boarding it up or tearing it down.

Says who?

The issues of homelessness, mental and physical health and addiction issues that are visible downtown also need to be addressed. Unless one is seriously suggesting prison, deportation or mass execution as a solution (and I REALLY hope you aren't suggesting this), then providing health care services, while imperfect, is the best option for trying to make the downtown an attractive destination again.

WTF? Is there anything in my comments that suggests I want mass execution? wtf is wrong with you???....Ok i'm done here. Have a nice day.

[Hecate]

Been thinking about this plan a lot lately, and I must say, it’s pathetic. More corporate welfare for canadas richest man and the losers cheer. What are we cheering for? Medical centres and drop ins? With some apartments. Is this really the best we can do?

How did those affordable units true north promised to build across the street turn out? You know, the ones they got public money for then ditched.

Brutal plan.

Give it to lotteries to partner with a hotel chain and turn into a hotel and casino. With other entertainment options like a water park, for families. It could be an urban resort of sorts. Instead we get more lifeless government shit for portage avenue.

[NewIreland]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Been thinking about this plan a lot lately, and I must say, it’s pathetic. More corporate welfare for canadas richest man and the losers cheer. What are we cheering for? Medical centres and drop ins? With some apartments. Is this really the best we can do?

How did those affordable units true north promised to build across the street turn out? You know, the ones they got public money for then ditched.

Brutal plan.

Give it to lotteries to partner with a hotel chain and turn into a hotel and casino. With other entertainment options like a water park, for families. It could be an urban resort of sorts. Instead we get more lifeless government shit for portage avenue.

Apartment tower, plaza, YMCA, Prairie Theatre, grocery store and revamped food court = lifeless... pathetic?

[Hecate]

Oooo a plaza how exciting! YAWN! Who’s gonna open a grocery store there? Who’s gonna wanna take that loss, sobeys? Save on? Yeah right. It’ll be a bunch of government medical offices and crap in one building, some drop in centres, and probably a service Canada. so I imagine that’ll be lively after five, I feel sorry for prairie theatre, they should look into moving out somewhere near the theatre district.

[NewIreland]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Oooo a plaza how exciting! YAWN! Who’s gonna open a grocery store there? Who’s gonna wanna take that loss, sobeys? Save on? Yeah right. It’ll be a bunch of government medical offices and crap in one building, some drop in centres, and probably a service Canada. so I imagine that’ll be lively after five, I feel sorry for prairie theatre, they should look into moving out somewhere near the theatre district.

So you think that the owners/tenants of Glasshouse, 288 Colony, TNS, Smith Steet Lofts, Heritage Landing, 390 on the River, Medical Arts (all of which have come online in the past few years) plus the future tenants of HBC, 300 Main, RNSQR, 138 Portage, 127 Bannatyne, Market Square, PLUS the new tower planned for the site can't support a grocery store???

Downtown continues to add thousands of people despite the naysayers. People DO want to live downtown, and I have faith that this project will be a success.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by Luisito

Great, let's make this personal as usual. So TSNE are mental health and addiction experts now?

Friend, pretty much every comment you made about the TSNE development plan indicated you were expecting it to fail. There are people here who unequivocally seem to want this project to fail, as well as pretty much any other proposed improvement to the downtown. I stated I was really hoping you were not one of those people. I still do, though that hope is fading.


Says who?

Pretty much every recent media post.

WTF? Is there anything in my comments that suggests I want mass execution? wtf is wrong with you???....Ok i'm done here. Have a nice day.

No, I really hoped you were not suggesting this. I can guarantee you, however, that there are people who, deep in their hearts, think of homeless/addicted people as less than human, and would just like to see them "disappear" somehow.

Whenever you come back I'd love to hear your solution to the homelessness and addiction we see downtown and in other areas. If medical and social supports are doomed to fail, as you seem to indicate, and you don't just want the homeless/addicted to "disappear", then what's your solution?

Oh, and thanks, you have an awesome day too, friend!

[Malcsta]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Been thinking about this plan a lot lately, and I must say, it’s pathetic. More corporate welfare for canadas richest man and the losers cheer. What are we cheering for? Medical centres and drop ins? With some apartments. Is this really the best we can do?

How did those affordable units true north promised to build across the street turn out? You know, the ones they got public money for then ditched.

Brutal plan.

Give it to lotteries to partner with a hotel chain and turn into a hotel and casino. With other entertainment options like a water park, for families. It could be an urban resort of sorts. Instead we get more lifeless government shit for portage avenue.

Lol. You're proposing a casino would be a better option than a health care facility.. in the heart of downtown. A quick glance at those who hang out around Portage Place would lead you to conclude that they absolutely do not need a casino. They are vulnerable, and this would exacerbate many of the problems that has lead them to be in that position in the first place..

[WinCitySparky]

Originally Posted by hecate

been thinking about this plan a lot lately, and i must say, it’s pathetic. More corporate welfare for canadas richest man and the losers cheer. What are we cheering for? Medical centres and drop ins? With some apartments. Is this really the best we can do?

How did those affordable units true north promised to build across the street turn out? You know, the ones they got public money for then ditched.

Brutal plan.

Give it to lotteries to partner with a hotel chain and turn into a hotel and casino. With other entertainment options like a water park, for families. It could be an urban resort of sorts. Instead we get more lifeless government shit for portage avenue.

0/10

[esquire]

If you look at our Saskatchewan neighbours, Regina and Moose Jaw, both cities' downtowns get a significant boost from the casino presence. It adds people to the area at all hours and it attracts people to nearby hotels, restaurants, etc.

Here in Winnipeg, we have two massive casinos in total afterthought locations. Other than maybe a couple of hotels near Club Regent, no one really spends time or money in the areas near the casinos. So we get all the downside of having casinos, but without any of the upside in terms of positive effects on the urban environment.

I don't doubt that we need the medical facilities that form this proposal, but something like a casino with associated amenities (hotels and recreation) would have done more for the area.

[thurmas]

I was really hoping they would have turned the bay downtown into a bigger version of Casino Regina but they didn't want to do it. I am not a fan of the current bay proposal as I think it could end up being a much larger thunderbird house but no one was willing to take on that project so we will see how this plays out.