CHICAGO: Transit Developments

[Rilestone75]

Originally Posted by Abner

I have seen people randomly attacked on the Green Line and the Blue Line. I know many people who have been robbed on train platforms and on trains, sometimes right after school when the train is full of kids. I've never seen that on a bus and I've never heard of it except on lightly used lines in the most dangerous neighborhoods at night--and I've taken such "seedy" buses as the 54, the 9, and the 55 regularly. I've also never been a captive audience to an aggressive speech-giving panhandler, a soapbox preacher, or a three-card hustler on a bus. I'm not saying that people should be afraid to take the train--I still prefer the train--I'm just saying that in bad situations, you can't have the level of safety on the train that you can have on a bus by simply sitting or standing near the driver. (As for murder, that's a rare enough thing on any mode of transit that I don't generally take it into account.)

Abner, you must not take the train much then... I take the red or brown line every day, and can honestly say that at least once, perhaps twice a week there is an incident with someone on the train. This has also escalated over the past year, and I can only point to the state of the economy as a reason why.

[Busy Bee]

^And how in general, many members of socities' underbelly consistantly misbehave themselves.

[lawfin]

Originally Posted by Rilestone75

Abner, you must not take the train much then... I take the red or brown line every day, and can honestly say that at least once, perhaps twice a week there is an incident with someone on the train. This has also escalated over the past year, and I can only point to the state of the economy as a reason why.

What are you the pigpen of crime while riding the train.....I think I have seen you complain of this before.....I also take the train if not every day then several times a week usually red and brown and I have rarely seen instances of crime....I think you may have a low threshold for "incident"

[Taft]

Originally Posted by Rilestone75

Abner, you must not take the train much then... I take the red or brown line every day, and can honestly say that at least once, perhaps twice a week there is an incident with someone on the train. This has also escalated over the past year, and I can only point to the state of the economy as a reason why.

C'mon, this is just crazy. Either you are getting REALLY unlucky or I am getting REALLY lucky, because I've lived in Chicago 9 years and can count on one hand (maybe two, tops) the number of "incidents" I've seen on the trains or buses. I ride the trains almost every day.

Something in your account doesn't add up (no, people who give you the heebie-jeebies on the train don't count as "incidents")...

[MayorOfChicago]

Originally Posted by Taft

C'mon, this is just crazy. Either you are getting REALLY unlucky or I am getting REALLY lucky, because I've lived in Chicago 9 years and can count on one hand (maybe two, tops) the number of "incidents" I've seen on the trains or buses. I ride the trains almost every day.

Something in your account doesn't add up (no, people who give you the heebie-jeebies on the train don't count as "incidents")...

I was going to say, I've ridden the Blue and Red lines every day for almost 8 years....at all hours and all days (don't have a car, go out late a LOT).

I've only seen 3 instances. About 3 years ago a woman had her purse stolen on the Brown Line and called the police, and about 6 years ago some thugs were talking crap to random people and shoved this guy on the Blue Line, and two people got on a fight on a bus late at night about 4 years ago.

[nomarandlee]

Originally Posted by orulz

Thinking about how to save money.

There are a couple components of the WLTC that probably can't be moved. A west loop subway probably does have to happen under Clinton. One station on this line would probably be located at Monroe. This station would connect directly to the Monroe transitway, and via a concourse to Union Station and Ogilvie. So that's 2 levels: tracks/platforms, plus the concourse/mezzanine.

As for the other two levels:
The "Clinton Transitway" (aka busway) - does that really have to be below ground? Who knows.

For HSR, though, there are numerous complicating factors that make it difficult to run HSR trains to the WLTC under Clinton. First, the HSR trains are envisioned on the bottom level, which would make the approaches extremely long and expensive. Also, how do you power the trains when they're in this tunnel? Dual mode trains? Do you build an expensive but probably still imperfect ventilation system? A 4-level escalator to reach the HSR platforms seems extreme, too. And how many HSR tracks/platforms can fit under Clinton anyway? The renderings I've seen show apparently just 2 tracks and 1 island platform. Dedicated HSR platforms and lead tracks increase speed and efficiency, but is it worth all that expense?

The easier and less expensive (but also less flexible) solution would be to rebuild union station to have more through tracks. Through-routing commuter trains would free up some slots, making Metra more convenient to boot. This does come with its own set of issues though, not the least of which is that there are only 3 tracks on approach to Union Station from the north and that could severely restrict capacity. In addition, this would cause the added expense of condemning and demolishing 222 S Riverside.

So, to summarize: which one will cost less: a 3-4 level WLTC with expensive approaches for HSR, or a 2-3 level WLTC PLUS the union station reconfiguration. And, how do you deal with the complications of each?

I agree that a subway line does have to go through the West Loop under either Clinton or Canal.
With 444 West Lake on the fritz I wonder if the idea of giving the approach to Union 4 tracks like I think Mr.Downtown said could be an idea revisited.

I wonder if it would throw the West Loop out of whack by making Clinton as a dedicated bus transitway/LRT like how I think Minneapolis has part of 5th St. through downtown. I would be up for demolished 222 Riverside but then I don't know how much money you are saving in the end. Would like to see the projections even just for the demolition of 222 Riverside.

[Mr Downtown]

I believe a total of four through tracks could be squeezed in on the east end of Union Station without altering any foundations. The original caissons were placed to make another runthrough track possible, and this alteration was contemplated during WWII. Earlier discussion of subject.

[Abner]

Originally Posted by Rilestone75

Abner, you must not take the train much then... I take the red or brown line every day, and can honestly say that at least once, perhaps twice a week there is an incident with someone on the train. This has also escalated over the past year, and I can only point to the state of the economy as a reason why.

First, considering that I was arguing that trains are more dangerous than buses, I have no idea how you concluded that I don't take the train much. I take the train a lot, and I probably take the relatively less-used branches more often than the typical forumer here. That said, even though I frequently take the Green, Forest Park Blue, and Pink Lines during weird hours, I have very, very rarely seen any crime on them, so I have to echo the people who responded to you and wonder what is going on to make you witness so many incidents. My point was just that crimes happen on buses even less frequently than on trains, and Attrill posted the CPD numbers that confirm that.

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Probably the best way to use a Larrabee-Clinton subway is to run Red Line trains that way, with Brown-Orange throughrouted via the State Street Subway.

Has it been determined exactly how the tubes would get from Larrabee to Clinton? Underneath the existing surface rail r-o-w? Underneath the river (hmmm, a risky idea maybe; see 1992)? In particular, on which side of the Kinzie Station tower?

[jpIllInoIs]

^ NYC has over 20 subway lines crossing under 3 separate rivers and Jamaica Bay.

[Abner]

We have subways crossing the river too, obviously. Those weren't involved in the 1992 flood, that was the old freight tunnels.

[orulz]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

I believe a total of four through tracks could be squeezed in on the east end of Union Station without altering any foundations. The original caissons were placed to make another runthrough track possible, and this alteration was contemplated during WWII. Earlier discussion of subject.

I agree with your assessment that four run-through tracks are probably possible at Union Station without having to tear up the whole thing. It may nevertheless be fortuitous to demolish the whole block to get even more run through tracks, but that aside, even given that fewer HSR trains will approach from the north than from the south, will the three tracks leading into Union Station from the north will be enough? Could a fourth track be added? Would that be enough?There are five tracks from the south and probably plenty of room to add more, but the north remains an issue. I want to say that this was already discussed on this thread, but I can't find the specific post.

In any case, putting HSR in the bottom level of the WLTC under Clinton seems to be pointless if they can only fit 2 tracks. It might be adequate for the next 10 or 20 years, but building a multi-billion dollar infrastructure project with the expectation that it will serve your needs for 10 or 20 years is unwise.

[the urban politician]

The Circle Line

+

RTA outlines plan for unified fare system

Regional Transportation Authority officials on Thursday outlined a timetable for modernizing fare collection and ticketing on buses and trains, including the possible introduction of a credit card-based, unified fare system as early as next year.

The timetable is part of an overall set of goals to create a "seamless" regional transit system that would coordinate service, fare collection and technology between the CTA, Metra and Pace, officials said.

For years, transportation experts and passengers have complained of a lack of coordination between the three agencies. The goals are in line with legislation approved last year giving the RTA a stronger role in getting the agencies on the same track.

Meanwhile, RTA officials Thursday also got their clearest picture yet of how the glum economic situation is affecting mass transit. A sharp falloff in sales tax revenues is putting the transit agencies in a dire financial crunch, making the threat of fare hikes and service cuts more imminent.

-- Richard Wronski
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...ss-system.html

=

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by denizen467

Has it been determined exactly how the tubes would get from Larrabee to Clinton? Underneath the existing surface rail r-o-w? Underneath the river (hmmm, a risky idea maybe; see 1992)? In particular, on which side of the Kinzie Station tower?

^ That's passion for transit for ya...

"Gee, George, uhhh... ain't that a river? What are we gonna do 'bout that? What are we gonna do about the train, George?"

[Mr Downtown]

Originally Posted by denizen467

Has it been determined exactly how the tubes would get from Larrabee to Clinton?

I don't know that there are engineering drawings yet.



Seems odd that there's no transfer to Blue or Green at Milwaukee/Lake

[jew4life4948]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

The Circle Line

+



=

I wonder how that will impact the U-Pass program, which currently only works on CTA.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

It's like the uber-Loop

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Seems odd that there's no transfer to Blue or Green at Milwaukee/Lake

^ Agreed, I'm hoping that this is just a very very rough draft and that future plans would incorporate that

[Taft]

The paulina stop on the brown line is reopening:

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...rown-line.html

[arenn]

Originally Posted by Taft

The paulina stop on the brown line is reopening:

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...rown-line.html

I used it today - thank goodness - that project should not have taken a year.