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View Poll Results: Which Chicago casino proposal is your favorite?
Ballys at Tribune 28 18.67%
Ballys at McCormick 8 5.33%
Hard Rock at One Central 11 7.33%
Rivers at The 78 82 54.67%
Rivers at McCormick 21 14.00%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1381  
Old Posted May 15, 2022, 2:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Kngkyle View Post
My expectation is that the pedestrian bridge is just the first of many walk-backs to come. Bally's has no other interests in Chicagoland that could be used to gain leverage over them fulfilling promises... unlike say... Related.
As we discussed on previous pages, Related was already trying to walk back some of the best urban design features of The 78 (smaller park, leaving the Metra tracks un-capped, etc).

Bally's at least is going into a mixed-use development in a part of the city with a very strong real estate market. The city can push for the full build-out of parks and elevated streets just like they did at Lakeshore East. If it's too much to chew all at once, it can be phased. It's not that the city doesn't have leverage in these cases, it's that they're afraid to use it usually.

But Maurice Cox doesn't seem to have those reservations as the head of DPD. He's already threatened to tank the housing project at Western/Leland because he thinks it has too much parking, and that's very small-potatoes compared to the Ballys/River District. I don't think he will hesitate to use his influence to hold Bally's to their end of the deal, unless the mayor specifically orders him to let them slide.
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  #1382  
Old Posted May 16, 2022, 12:28 AM
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Yesterday I remembered that Chicago Avenue doesn't have an actual bridge at the moment; it has had a temporary Bailey bridge in place since 2018. So presumably there will be at least a year, if not two, whenever CDOT finally gets construction under way, with no way to reach the casino site from the east! The old Montgomery Ward buildings on both sides of the east approach mean they can't put a temporary bridge just off to the side.
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  #1383  
Old Posted May 16, 2022, 4:20 AM
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ardecila ardecila is offline
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Yes, the bridge work would occur while the casino is under construction. This is the stated reason why they couldn’t put the temporary casino in the Tribune building north of Chicago Ave, which was the original plan.

I’m not sure the city is any closer to funding the permanent bridge replacement at Chicago, but supposedly Bally’s is ready to cut a $40M check the day City Council passes the PD and the operating agreement. Maybe part of that $40M can close the gap to fund the new bridge.
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  #1384  
Old Posted May 16, 2022, 3:14 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
I’m not sure the city is any closer to funding the permanent bridge replacement at Chicago, but supposedly Bally’s is ready to cut a $40M check the day City Council passes the PD and the operating agreement. Maybe part of that $40M can close the gap to fund the new bridge.
shocking to think we are short on cash when the city just got $1.9 Billion in largely unrestricted COVID funds from the federal government
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  #1385  
Old Posted May 18, 2022, 12:15 AM
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Bally's Chicago agreement by AnnRWeiler on Scribd

HOST COMMUNITY AGREEMENT BY AND BETWEEN CITY OF CHICAGO, ILLINOIS AND BALLY’S CHICAGO OPERATING COMPANY, LLC


https://www.scribd.com/document/5745...ent#from_embed
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  #1386  
Old Posted May 18, 2022, 1:14 PM
BruceP BruceP is online now
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Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
shocking to think we are short on cash when the city just got $1.9 Billion in largely unrestricted COVID funds from the federal government
You do realize that money will go to cover lost revenues and increased spending owing to COVID, don't you? And that only amounts to about $700 a person. Chicago IS a big city.
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  #1387  
Old Posted May 18, 2022, 1:29 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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You do realize that money will go to cover lost revenues and increased spending owing to COVID, don't you? And that only amounts to about $700 a person. Chicago IS a big city.
that was the plan, yes

but the city and state (not just IL but all around the country) did not lose any tax revenue. in fact revenues are way up.

that's why you see the silly programs like $15 million in free gas cards and the $500/month guaranteed income program

Chicago IS a big city with lots of wasted spending
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  #1388  
Old Posted May 18, 2022, 2:04 PM
galleyfox galleyfox is offline
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Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
that was the plan, yes

but the city and state (not just IL but all around the country) did not lose any tax revenue. in fact revenues are way up.

that's why you see the silly programs like $15 million in free gas cards and the $500/month guaranteed income program

Chicago IS a big city with lots of wasted spending
Those were proverbial pennies to get the alderman to approve spending the real money on deficits.

There was about a $750 million deficit last year that the Covid funds backfilled, and $385 million more for this year, and a few hundred million for next year. On top of increased expenses for police, maintenance, etc.

Just $30 million went to the guaranteed income thing.

There wasn’t a realistic pool of money to do much else with in the city (that could also get enough votes for larger deficit spending).

The state surplus might have come from capital gains so hardly reliable and no guarantee that they’ll be in good shape if the stock market continues having its issues.
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  #1389  
Old Posted May 18, 2022, 2:19 PM
moorhosj1 moorhosj1 is offline
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Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
but the city and state (not just IL but all around the country) did not lose any tax revenue. in fact revenues are way up.
This information is not correct. The state absolutely lost tax revenue in 2020 compared to 2019 and 2022 revenue is up from 2019.

From 2021:
Quote:
The pandemic’s hit to the state’s budget remains significant. The loss to the state’s general funds was $868 million from major revenue sources, the study concluded based on the analysis of state tax receipts. Across all state funds, the loss was $1.44 billion.
From 2022:
Quote:
Personal income tax receipts in April, still the state’s largest tax-paying month, hit $5.440 billion, up 99.9% from the $2.721 billion collected in April 2021.

Corporate income tax growth was also peppy, soaring 63.5%, up from $1.13 billion a year ago to $1.847 billion now.

For the year to date—Illinois’ fiscal year ends June 30—individual income tax receipts are up $3.91 billion, or 18.8%, and corporate income taxes are up $1.973 billion, or 56.5%.
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  #1390  
Old Posted May 22, 2022, 11:55 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Originally Posted by moorhosj1 View Post
This information is not correct. The state absolutely lost tax revenue in 2020 compared to 2019 and 2022 revenue is up from 2019.

From 2021:


From 2022:
Uhhh… all of those figures alone add up to a pretty nice picture, and then add the covid funds on top…. Which is why reporters use the term “gusher” to describe the situation.
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  #1391  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 9:48 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by moorhosj1 View Post
This information is not correct. The state absolutely lost tax revenue in 2020 compared to 2019 and 2022 revenue is up from 2019.
Here's the actual data:
https://www2.illinois.gov/rev/resear...s/default.aspx

Individual income tax collected by the state, April of each year
2022: $4,891,640,292.24
2021: $2,586,773,187.77
2020: $2,041,827,602.71
2019: $3,724,596,181.17
2018: $2,859,723,340.92
2017: $1,974,525,799.01

Individual income tax collected by the state, Jan thru April of each year
2022: $11,854,788,598.48
2021: $3,476,062,268.58
2020: $7,914,200,960.53
2019: $9,350,674,785.05
2018: $8,427,361,792.50
2017: $5,988,528,337.15


Obviously inflation can factor into this a little bit but that's a 26.8% increase in income tax revenue Jan-April 2022 vs. Jan-April 2019. I think that on average things are 12% or 13% more expensive now vs. 2019. If everyone got inflationary increase of wages since 2019 and no growth in tax base then we've expect to see around $10.5B but we're seeing close to $11.9B. We'll see how much is wage growth or a lot more higher paying jobs vs. something else. May data will be interesting.


Business Income Tax collected by the state
April 2022: $3,721,170,959.82
April 2021: $1,986,781,069.72
April 2020: $731,011,739.63
April 2019: $1,505,438,243.02
April 2018: $1,024,728,651.56
April 2017: $803,597,392.68
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  #1392  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 10:03 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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BTW city council passed the ordinance to allow the operation of the casino plus the temporary one.
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  #1393  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 10:10 PM
galleyfox galleyfox is offline
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Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
BTW city council passed the ordinance to allow the operation of the casino plus the temporary one.
The council or the committee?

The council vote isn’t until Wednesday, but probably a moot point.
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  #1394  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 10:11 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by galleyfox View Post
The council or the committee?

The council vote isn’t until Wednesday
Oops, you're right. 27-3 in favor - committee.
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  #1395  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 11:56 PM
moorhosj1 moorhosj1 is offline
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Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Obviously inflation can factor into this a little bit but that's a 26.8% increase in income tax revenue Jan-April 2022 vs. Jan-April 2019. I think that on average things are 12% or 13% more expensive now vs. 2019. If everyone got inflationary increase of wages since 2019 and no growth in tax base then we've expect to see around $10.5B but we're seeing close to $11.9B. We'll see how much is wage growth or a lot more higher paying jobs vs. something else. May data will be interesting.
2020 also had the tax filing date moved back to July, I think. Probably won’t have a true picture until later in the year.
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  #1396  
Old Posted May 24, 2022, 12:34 AM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by moorhosj1 View Post
2020 also had the tax filing date moved back to July, I think. Probably won’t have a true picture until later in the year.

Sorry, can you explain more?
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  #1397  
Old Posted May 24, 2022, 1:24 AM
galleyfox galleyfox is offline
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Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Sorry, can you explain more?
The deadline was extended from April to July in 2020, so using April in the statistics doesn’t include the full tax collection.

https://www2.illinois.gov/rev/resear.../FY2020-24.pdf
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  #1398  
Old Posted May 24, 2022, 1:58 AM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by galleyfox View Post
The deadline was extended from April to July in 2020, so using April in the statistics doesn’t include the full tax collection.

https://www2.illinois.gov/rev/resear.../FY2020-24.pdf
July 2020: $2,955,167,658.56


We can also look at January - March of each year:

2022: $6,963,148,306.24
2021: $6,233,164,468.86
2020: $5,872,373,357.82
2019: $5,626,077,603.88
2018: $5,567,638,451.58
2017: $4,014,002,538.14

The inflation rate for the Chicago area between March 2019 and March 2022 is 11.83% meaning that the 2019 number above adjusted for inflation is around $6,291,730,538.84 or $671,417,767.40 below the 2022 number. That is a difference of $13,563,995,301 over 3 months for personal income of residents which could account for an increase of over 45,000 new jobs paying $100K each in yearly wages. Of course, this is Chicago's inflation and not the whole state - still need to find that.

Adjusting for inflation tying to March 2022 (assuming March of each year) then the numbers would be like this in more current dollars for those first 3 months of the year:

2022: $6,963,148,306.24
2021: $6,719,657,918.73
2020: $6,495,826,748.21
2019: $6,291,730,538.84
2018: $6,322,016,389.40
2017: $4,642,679,113.23

Still a 10.67% increase 2022 vs. 2019
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Last edited by marothisu; May 24, 2022 at 2:20 AM.
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  #1399  
Old Posted May 25, 2022, 7:23 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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City Council approved the casino - 41 to 7 with 1 recusal.
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  #1400  
Old Posted May 25, 2022, 7:50 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
July 2020: $2,955,167,658.56


We can also look at January - March of each year:

2022: $6,963,148,306.24
2021: $6,233,164,468.86
2020: $5,872,373,357.82
2019: $5,626,077,603.88
2018: $5,567,638,451.58
2017: $4,014,002,538.14

The inflation rate for the Chicago area between March 2019 and March 2022 is 11.83% meaning that the 2019 number above adjusted for inflation is around $6,291,730,538.84 or $671,417,767.40 below the 2022 number. That is a difference of $13,563,995,301 over 3 months for personal income of residents which could account for an increase of over 45,000 new jobs paying $100K each in yearly wages. Of course, this is Chicago's inflation and not the whole state - still need to find that.

Adjusting for inflation tying to March 2022 (assuming March of each year) then the numbers would be like this in more current dollars for those first 3 months of the year:

2022: $6,963,148,306.24
2021: $6,719,657,918.73
2020: $6,495,826,748.21
2019: $6,291,730,538.84
2018: $6,322,016,389.40
2017: $4,642,679,113.23

Still a 10.67% increase 2022 vs. 2019
yup it's a gusher of money

even more so when you add the "covid recovery" funds on top
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