CHICAGO | City Casino

[left of center]

I think the smash and grab argument is a bit of a stretch. This has been a problem all over the country(SF, LA, NY, heck even Oakbrook), along with a general uptick of violence ever since the start of the pandemic and the riots last summer. A casino isn't going to create more of that. Its a phenomenon that operates on its own and will hopefully be curbed in the coming months/years.

As for residents not wanting to live next to a loud and flashy casino, I think if the 78 casino is designed well then the residents should be separated from the activity. Have the operations/entrances/centers of activity face Roosevelt and the river, as the renders appear to show. The remainder sides can focus on retail or simply be party walls to the base(s) of future residential towers. It wont be like living directly on the Las Vegas strip.

Some of the other points made are indeed some concerns I share. Traffic will be a problem, especially on Roosevelt. And decking over streets kills street life. It will be a real barrier to pedestrian traffic. Not sure how those can be worked, however.

[Chicago_Forever]

[QUOTE=generallogan;9480252]So I wouldn't be surprised if the 78 proposal won, because Lightfoot is a transplant and still does not understand the delicate balance that makes The City that Works, work.

The 78 proposal, while flashy, will totally change the vibe of the riverwalk. The connection from Chinatown to Chicago should be through a true neighborhood/business/hotel district as originally proposed for the 78. Without a very high police presence in and throughout the 78, all along the waterfront, and between the casino and the red line stations, expect smash and grab on steroids and the unsafe feeling people currently have downtown to spread to the river.

You have to expect the worst, don't be fooled by the glossy images that a developer shows you in a presentation. The worst is plopping the Chicago version of O'Shea's/Barbary Coast/the Golden Nugget between Chinatown and the central business district. And, you may say "this is going to be a high-end casino like Bellagio/Caesar's!", but again, give it 10 years, and like all things it will become a low-end casino that acts much like the peep show theaters in the Loop did in the 70s/80s, as a deterrent for development.

Just some of the negatives of the 78 site:

The 24 hour nature of a casino is not conducive to the 78 site. 24/7 works when it's removed from normal Chicagoans living their lives.

Transportation in and out of the site will be a nightmare. Again, Roosevelt road is already a CF at 3pm in the afternoon. Expect that 18 hours a day with this site.

The Wells Wentworth connector from I55 through Chinatown will be a CF. People don't take public transportation (red line) with loads of cash in their pockets. Most people will uber or drive.

Mixing a Casino with DPI, two completely different uses. I'd expect students/workers getting mugged/shot/carjacked as they are peacefully going about their day.

Also, observation towers are for cities that don't already have Sears/Hancock on and on, as we do. Toronto built theirs before they were a skyscraper capital, not after.

So yeah, there may be community pushback, which is justified (I'm pro development, a skyscraper/development nerd, been a member here for 20 years on and off, I'm just realistic and need answers from the developers on the above). The lakefront proposals wall off the nonsense (or potential nonsense), which is a good thing. But again, Lightfoot has made consistently bad decisions over the last couple years, so 78 has a good chance.

[thegoatman]

The Mccormick Place would be by far the most boring, safe pick. Economically, it makes the most sense being its the cheapest, but everything besides that is meh. Nothing about that building screams world class facility. Looks about the same as the one in Des Plaines.

The 78 is easily the best option.

[ithakas]

ICYMI, I recommend checking out this page on a desktop/laptop, which shows a POV of someone walking south near Wells through the casino and down to the riverwalk/observation tower base: https://www.78chicago.com/collection-experiences

It also gives a lineup of all the dining options, which will be huge for this corner of the South Loop (there's really nothing besides a Dollop and Roosevelt Collection west of Clark).

[rivernorthlurker]

Does anyone have any new visuals on the proposal at McCormick Lakeside Center? I haven't been able to find any since yesterday.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by jpIllInoIs

Yes to all of the above GeneralLogan. And I am dubious on decking over Wells/Wentworth. Right now this is a razzle dazzle presentation. I fully concur with your assertion on the traffic conditions on Roosevelt. Ppl do not take public transit to casinos they will uber/lyft of perhaps use shuttle busses. But there will be alot of busses and McMk is built to handle that. And McMk is pretty quiet when there are not conventions in town so it could use the boost.
Meanwhile the Green line and Metra provide service for casino employees. And it is easily accessible from I-55/I/94 and LSD and MLK-Cermak.

What is your opinion even based on that "people don't take public transit to casinos"? There's almost nowhere in the US with a casino that's actually close to a rapid transit system. Not sure how anyone could even say this one way or another.. Yeah sure if I were a whale I'd take a car or my boat (if that option existed) to the casino, or won a bunch or money. Outside of that though for the US there's really not much data to say either way.

[OrdoSeclorum]

Originally Posted by marothisu

What is your opinion even based on that "people don't take public transit to casinos"?

I've been to Vegas six or seven times and I never once drove to a casino there.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum

I've been to Vegas six or seven times and I never once drove to a casino there.

If you are staying on the strip then you can walk, depending on distance.

The only casino in the US I can think of with a rapid transit stop nearby is Resort World in NYC (Queens). Which is all the way out near JFK. The station has a ridership of 600K. Not huge but also apples to oranges as far as location goes. It's near a bunch of people but far away from any sort of Upper middle or upper class area, and not close to where tourists are already staying. Chicago's mo matter where it goes will be different from that anyway.

[Bonsai Tree]

There absolutely NEEDS to be an entertainment district around the casino if we actually want it to be a successful part of the urban fabric and extremely successful. I think it's disappointing that so many people here only see a casino as something that people will drive into and out of for habitual gambling when it could be so much more (and that of course). If we create a casino just for habitual gamblers then that's what we'll get. Most other casinos in the US do this well, but they also suck in terms of the urban fabric. I was under the impression that we wanted to create a casino that was part of the urban fabric, not another concrete box failure like the rest of them. I find this argument to be ridiculous and very short-sighted. If we choose one of the generic casino proposals, someone in 20 years will say "why didn't we do this differently?" I'm not necessarily just advocating for the 78 proposals here, instead, I'm advocating against any of the proposals with an antiquated mindset (and anybody on here advocating for them)

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by generallogan

So I wouldn't be surprised if the 78 proposal won, because Lightfoot is a transplant and still does not understand the delicate balance that makes The City that Works, work.

The 78 proposal, while flashy, will totally change the vibe of the riverwalk. The connection from Chinatown to Chicago should be through a true neighborhood/business/hotel district as originally proposed for the 78. Without a very high police presence in and throughout the 78, all along the waterfront, and between the casino and the red line stations, expect smash and grab on steroids and the unsafe feeling people currently have downtown to spread to the river.

You have to expect the worst, don't be fooled by the glossy images that a developer shows you in a presentation. The worst is plopping the Chicago version of O'Shea's/Barbary Coast/the Golden Nugget between Chinatown and the central business district. And, you may say "this is going to be a high-end casino like Bellagio/Caesar's!", but again, give it 10 years, and like all things it will become a low-end casino that acts much like the peep show theaters in the Loop did in the 70s/80s, as a deterrent for development.

Just some of the negatives of the 78 site:

The 24 hour nature of a casino is not conducive to the 78 site. 24/7 works when it's removed from normal Chicagoans living their lives.

Transportation in and out of the site will be a nightmare. Again, Roosevelt road is already a CF at 3pm in the afternoon. Expect that 18 hours a day with this site.

The Wells Wentworth connector from I55 through Chinatown will be a CF. People don't take public transportation (red line) with loads of cash in their pockets. Most people will uber or drive.

Mixing a Casino with DPI, two completely different uses. I'd expect students/workers getting mugged/shot/carjacked as they are peacefully going about their day.

Also, observation towers are for cities that don't already have Sears/Hancock on and on, as we do. Toronto built theirs before they were a skyscraper capital, not after.

So yeah, there may be community pushback, which is justified (I'm pro development, a skyscraper/development nerd, been a member here for 20 years on and off, I'm just realistic and need answers from the developers on the above). The lakefront proposals wall off the nonsense (or potential nonsense), which is a good thing. But again, Lightfoot has made consistently bad decisions over the last couple years, so 78 has a good chance.

Holy mother of bad takes.

[west-town-brad]

Originally Posted by ORD2010

Did anyone else catch on their website that the on-site hotel would be Equinox branded? pulling them from their west loop development I assume (though I think the WL fits their brand a little better?) i wonder if that would mean the end of that project or shift to residential or another brand?

Equinox is owned by Related Companies

[lakeshoredrive]

This may sound stupid or naive of me to do, but I reached out to Related on their The 78 page and submitted a public comment about Rivers 78 casino proposal. I mostly spent my time talking about the observation tower and making a case of why it needs to be taller than 1,000 feet. I suggested that it should be at least 1,500 feet tall and that more experiences that are immersive or interactive can be added as well as two restaurants and a museum dedicated to the history of the 78, the south loop, the river, and the railroad yard. I don't know if they will see my public comment or will even take it seriously. I also wrote that I acknowledge the economical challenge of building a structure that extends beyond 1,000 feet, but it would be worth it with this tower and the cost can be recouped in the long term. Just a wishful gesture, but it was worth trying to reach out to them with my public comment.

[thegoatman]

Originally Posted by lakeshoredrive

This may sound stupid or naive of me to do, but I reached out to Related on their The 78 page and submitted a public comment about Rivers 78 casino proposal. I mostly spent my time talking about the observation tower and making a case of why it needs to be taller than 1,000 feet. I suggested that it should be at least 1,500 feet tall and that more experiences that are immersive or interactive can be added as well as two restaurants and a museum dedicated to the history of the 78, the south loop, the river, and the railroad yard. I don't know if they will see my public comment or will even take it seriously. I also wrote that I acknowledge the economical challenge of building a structure that extends beyond 1,000 feet, but it would be worth it with this tower and the cost can be recouped in the long term. Just a wishful gesture, but it was worth trying to reach out to them with my public comment.

Good shit man. i also agree there should be a museum on site, would expand our museum campus.

[lakeshoredrive]

Originally Posted by thegoatman

Good shit man. i also agree there should be a museum on site, would expand our museum campus.

I was inspired by what the developer said about the tower at the meeting, it being the Eiffel Tower for Chicago, something like that lol. So one level can have that museum like the Eiffel Tower does but the restaurant would not be on the same level. It would be on its own level, maybe around 700 feet and there would be another one at the top ala Signature Room at JHC with several event spaces and obviously a panoramic two level observation deck with an outdoor deck above the restaurant space.

[rgarri4]

Yeah if the goal is for the observation tower to be the "Eiffel tower of Chicago" then this aint it. This wouldn't even be the "Vessel of Chicago" needs to be taller, more memorable in design or just in a different location.

[psxvz]

There are two elementary schools within a block of the 78 site. Can't see how there isn't huge pushback from the community.

[lakeshoredrive]

Originally Posted by psxvz

There are two elementary schools within a block of the 78 site. Can't see how there isn't huge pushback from the community.

And how does this affect them? The casino will be more popular at night, especially on Friday to Sunday. It wouldn't affect those schools that much.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by psxvz

There are two elementary schools within a block of the 78 site. Can't see how there isn't huge pushback from the community.

Just put in a couple dozen child sized slots and three or four kiddle roulette tables and call it a day...

[sentinel]

My only real issue with the Rivers Casino at the 78 proposal is that it appears to do away with the Crescent part:



(I saw a better rendering this morning that more clearly shows the lack of the park, now I can't find it )

[Randomguy34]

There's a new video on The 78's website showing an aerial of the site. Really demonstrates how imposing the towers are, and how The 78 will extend the skyline south. You can also see the changes in park size: https://www.78chicago.com/sites/defa...trict-hero.mp4