San Francisco drops to 3rd most expensive city for renters

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Yes, it's a political argument, but how does changing the time lessen the chance for violence? The logical conclusion of that would be to eliminate alcohol sales altogether to get rid of violence.

OTOH, someone could argue that having hard cutoff times could actually be increasing the chance of violence by pushing a bunch of people with alcohol in their system into the streets at exactly the same time every night.

The reason is obvious, is it not? The large majority of moderate drinkers in America have already gone home by themselves by 2am. Most bars will close earlier on their own for that reason alone. They don’t really need the “last call”.

So the later it gets, the more a bar crowd consists of “bad drunks”. The cutoff simply sends them home instead of giving them another couple hours to cause trouble in public. Unfortunately, the functional patrons have to go with them, but there’s not enough of them to put up a political fight.

Places with more students or lots of security get more leeway, because the economic pros outweigh the public order cons, but it’s not particularly common outside of limited areas.

Since bar violence usually decreases overall when a cutoff is implemented, there’s not much evidence for the “people in the streets at the same time” theory. Whereas there are lots of cases of fights starting in operating bars that spill out into the street.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by Yuri

That's a valid point. With longer hours, people leave in different time. As I got older, I usually leave by 2:30. Most people leave around 4:30-5:00 and others stay till 6:00-7:00.

That’s not common in the U.S. even when the bars are allowed to stay open. Most people don’t stay out beyond 2am. For the remaining bars, the safety is deteriorating to the point where almost all of them need a full security team.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

That’s not common in the U.S. even when the bars are allowed to stay open. Most people don’t stay out beyond 2am. For the remaining bars, the safety is deteriorating to the point where almost all of them need a full security team.

Drinking till passing out is not well seen here. It's only tolerated on yongsters as long as it's not too often. It's seen as something trashy or that person has issues.

Nightclubs open on 23:30 or 00:00. We're the first to arrive as I'm not young anymore. Clubs only get crowded by 1:30 and parties usually peak by 4:00. Bars usually close earlier, around 2:00-3:00 on weekends, 0:00 on weekdays.

About the underlined part, wow, that's extreme.

[DZH22]

Clubbing in the US is typically only going to be the under 30 crowd. Maybe 95% under 30, and 4.9% 30-34. By the time 99.9% of Americans are 35+ we aren't clubbing anymore, and either don't care about the issue or have a negative impression of it.

On the other hand, half the country has opened itself up to marijuana and a lot of older people either still like to do that, are picking it back up, or even are picking it up for the first time. I don't see people fighting on marijuana (although you'd be surprised how many people fuel workouts, such as running, hiking, or going to the gym, with pot).

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by DZH22

Clubbing in the US is typically only going to be the under 30 crowd. Maybe 95% under 30, and 4.9% 30-34. By the time 99.9% of Americans are 35+ we aren't clubbing anymore, and either don't care about the issue or have a negative impression of it.

On the other hand, half the country has opened itself up to marijuana and a lot of older people either still like to do that, are picking it back up, or even are picking it up for the first time. I don't see people fighting on marijuana (although you'd be surprised how many people fuel workouts, such as running, hiking, or going to the gym, with pot).

In Brazil, it’s mostly under 30 as well. But there’s a big share above the 30’s like me and a bit less above 40. When I was in Berlin, things are even more inclusive, with lots of older people enjoying the party. Overall I guess Brazil is way more party-friendly than in the US.

Regarding Americans alternative habits, it’s not that rosy: 110,000 overdose deaths up from 17,000 in 2000. Down here, it’s “only” 11,000.

[DZH22]

Originally Posted by Yuri

Regarding Americans alternative habits, it’s not that rosy: 110,000 overdose deaths up from 17,000 in 2000. Down here, it’s “only” 11,000.

0 overdose deaths from marijuana. Currently fully legalized recreationally in 21 states and Washington DC.

Also more people are still dying from alcohol than drugs in US, but it's close at this point.

[Labtec]

Originally Posted by Yuri

Yes, Spain is extreme even for Mediterranean-sphere standards.

I experienced this in the first hand when I stayed in South Africa in an internship program. The host family went to bed 21:00 sharp, every day. On summer. I found it so odd and robotic. I didn’t care much about nightlife back then, but I remember it was poor, although they didn’t have prohibition.

2 AM and 3 AM is sometimes when the night starts for some Atlantans, I used to go to waffle house a lot during that time back in the day.

[dktshb]

Originally Posted by craigs

Los Angeles has a "clubbing until dawn" scene and a "hiking at dawn" scene as well, because the population here is sufficiently large and diverse to maintain a critical mass for both.

I don't know. It is only a city of 4 million people and we're all so homogeneous, LOL. Yeah, LA was for me 20 years ago a big party "clubbing" town. Obviously it still is even though it is a different time and different tastes. LA probably has some of the most variety of any US City when it comes to the night scene. However you want to party it is going to be here for you. Bars may close at 2:00 but the party doesn't stop then.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Yuri

That's a valid point. With longer hours, people leave in different time. As I got older, I usually leave by 2:30. Most people leave around 4:30-5:00 and others stay till 6:00-7:00.

Yeah, I've actually seen it play out firsthand. In 2am cities the bars and nightclubs tend to be busiest at closing time. In New York, bars and nightclubs are usually past the most active part of the night when they close. Some places will even close before the legally mandated time because there aren't enough people to justify staying open later. I haven't seen that a lot in cities with earlier closing times.

Originally Posted by galleyfox

The reason is obvious, is it not? The large majority of moderate drinkers in America have already gone home by themselves by 2am. Most bars will close earlier on their own for that reason alone. They don’t really need the “last call”.

So the later it gets, the more a bar crowd consists of “bad drunks”. The cutoff simply sends them home instead of giving them another couple hours to cause trouble in public. Unfortunately, the functional patrons have to go with them, but there’s not enough of them to put up a political fight.

Places with more students or lots of security get more leeway, because the economic pros outweigh the public order cons, but it’s not particularly common outside of limited areas.

Since bar violence usually decreases overall when a cutoff is implemented, there’s not much evidence for the “people in the streets at the same time” theory. Whereas there are lots of cases of fights starting in operating bars that spill out into the street.

See my comment above.

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by DZH22

0 overdose deaths from marijuana. Currently fully legalized recreationally in 21 states and Washington DC.

Also more people are still dying from alcohol than drugs in US, but it's close at this point.

There is no recreational drug in the world that would make it fun to go "clubbing" with 40-somethings in Berlin.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by badrunner

There is no recreational drug in the world that would make it fun to go "clubbing" with 40-somethings in Berlin.

Yeah, Berlin is very democratic and inclusive. People from 18-70. I even saw a person in a wheelchair in one of them. It’s definitely not your kind of place. Church or RNC maybe.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Yeah, I've actually seen it play out firsthand. In 2am cities the bars and nightclubs tend to be busiest at closing time. In New York, bars and nightclubs are usually past the most active part of the night when they close. Some places will even close before the legally mandated time because there aren't enough people to justify staying open later. I haven't seen that a lot in cities with earlier closing times.



See my comment above.

One cultural difference is on how people behave on clubs. If you don’t kiss at least 5 and bring 1 home, that will be a slow night or you were only there “because of the music” (and they end up hooking up anyway). Abroad, even in Berlin, things are a bit slower in this regard.