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  #41  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2020, 4:25 PM
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I agree they will try. I get the feeling the NIMBYs would probably prefer the two tower option. They’ll be unhappy with anything though. I do like setbacks, but the 800 footer looks a little to wide on the lower levels. The 900 footer fits in more with the skyline up top, but the profile is a little bare at the bottom. Overall though, I would prefer the 900 footer for the skyline profile.



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  #42  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2020, 2:42 AM
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A good read on the Seaport over the years, but some quotes on this development in particular...


https://commercialobserver.com/2020/...-now-and-then/

South Street Seaport, Now and Then




BY CHAVA GOURARIE
MARCH 10, 2020


Quote:
When the Dutch first arrived at the island of Manhattan in the 1600s, they found a spot along the eastern river, near the southern tip of the island, where the land met the sea. It was perfect for mooring their boats, moving their goods, and ferrying to and from the landmass across the river.

And that’s how Manhattan’s story begins.

The area, now known as the South Street Seaport, quickly became the most active port in the nation. Import and export businesses cropped up around the waterfront, hotels and rooming houses were built for travelers and merchants, banks and lawyers and accountants set up shops to serve them, and Fulton Street became the first paved river-to-river street in the city.

New York came to rival the more established inland cities to become the country’s commercial heart. And though the maritime uses waned over the centuries, some form of market commerce continued until 2005, when the famed Fulton Fish Market moved to the Bronx.

Over the decades, the district — with its distinctive cobblestone blocks and low-rise brick architecture — bordered by Fulton Street to the north, the river to the east, and Water Street to the west, has been the subject of failed plans, rejected proposals, and unrealized visions. Underlying it all has been the constant question: How does a city preserve and celebrate a historic neighborhood while developing it for modern use? And, more importantly, how does one fund such a project?
Quote:
Today, the answer lies with the Howard Hughes Corporation, which controls much of the district through a long-term lease with the city, and has undertaken a variety of development projects within the area. Howard Hughes replaced a failing mall on Pier 17 with a four-story office-and-entertainment complex, distinguished by its rainbow-hued lighting display. It’s rebuilding the historic Tin Building, and it has proposed a tantalizing list of neighborhood improvements in exchange for the approvals it needs to build a tower at 250 Water Street, a parking lot at the edge of the district.
Quote:
As the city’s most historic district by its nature and age, it is fitting that the saga of the South Street Seaport is reflective of New York City’s everlasting tug-of-war between the past and the future.

Since the sixties, when the urban preservation movement was roused by the destruction of the former Penn Station, South Street Seaport has been fought over by the opposing forces of preservation and development.

...In the seventies, the city took over much of the land that the museum had purchased, and a 12-block area was named the first historical district in Manhattan. That designation limited the height of any new buildings and required the approval of the Landmarks Preservation Commission for any new development.
Quote:
Howard Hughes declined to comment directly for this piece and directed Commercial Observer to speak with architecture firm Skidmore, Owings & Merrill (SOM), which is overseeing Hughes’ community engagement efforts.

Kevin Draper, also a historian, said that Howard Hughes is managing a difficult balance. “They’re learning how to operate within a historic district,” he said, and pointed to their work on the Tin Building, a landmarked market building along the waterfront that was falling apart, and Pier 17. “The Tin Building was a perfect example. They pieced it back together. It’s a good example of what they can do.”

The developer disassembled the 1907-era building and is relocating it 32 feet to the east and lifting it several feet to protect it from flooding. The reconstituted building will mostly be made of new material but incorporates what remained of the historic structure. It will house a 50,000-square-foot food hall by French chef Jean-Georges Vongerichten and is scheduled to open in the summer of 2021.

At Pier 17, Howard Hughes has introduced the only new office property in the district, with the four-story structure now home to Nike Design and ESPN Studios, as well as a rooftop concert venue with the Brooklyn Bridge as its backdrop.
Quote:
“For the Seaport District, our goals for 2020 remain unchanged,” said Howard Hughes CFO David O’Reilly, on an earnings call in February. “We are steadfast in our belief that there is a clear near-term roadmap to unlocking value and intend to continue to execute on the strategy over 2020 and 2021.”

It came as a surprise to some that the Seaport District remained a high priority for Howard Hughes since it’s been something of a money suck, with high capital investment requirements and low returns. In the final quarter of 2019, the company reported $15.7 million in losses in the district. However, net operating revenues increased to $55.6 million from $32.6 million the previous year, according to the earnings report, and the company expects things to stabilize as more of the restaurant offerings come online.
Quote:
At issue now is the firm’s proposal for the tower on Water Street, on a lot they purchased for $180 million in 2018. In June of last year, they hired SOM to propose a holistic vision for the neighborhood, in particular three undeveloped sites within it: the Water Street site, the city-owned Fulton Fish Market (called the New Market site), and a corner lot on John Street which abuts the museum’s existing buildings.

The proposal hinges on transferring large blocks of development rights, mostly from the waterfront sites, to the Water Street lot.

“There are a million square feet of unused development rights,” said Chris Cooper, design partner at SOM. “The premise is that that represents value for the whole district. Can we unlock value so that the whole district can benefit?”

The majority of those unused development rights belong to the city, and it would require multiple approvals and adjustments for the city to transfer them to Howard Hughes.
Quote:
At the final workshop last week, SOM presented various tower designs, all of which have a podium that aligns with the height and design of the surrounding low-rise buildings, and a tower above it that would fit in with the forest of Financial District high-rises. The mixed-use building would include 200 units of affordable housing, office and ground-street retail. The tallest version would reach 990 feet, but SOM said they’re leaning towards a split tower option that would reach 770 feet.

It was what the community feared, said Sheldon. “As soon as the image of the tower showed up, everyone went white.”
Quote:
While some community members may advocate to quash the project and fund needed improvements through other avenues, SOM’s Keith O’Connor said development may be the community’s best bet.

“There’s 50 years of plans and aspirations that haven’t happened,” he said. “It’s very unlikely in that scenario that anything like the range of improvements that are articulated [in the proposal] would be funded and realized.”

Save Our Seaport’s proposed solution is to sell the development rights outside the district to fund improvement. “Public assets should not be used as bargaining items,” the group states on their website.
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  #43  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2020, 3:09 AM
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More grabs from the video...














2 tower plan










Block plan...









The contestants...

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  #44  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2020, 2:02 PM
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Build all of them. ;-)
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  #45  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2020, 4:47 PM
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When the City starts building in the river (besides on islands), you could imagine something like that. Parts of lower Manhattan could look like it in the future if they don't build the promised flood protections.
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  #46  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2020, 1:21 AM
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Another rendering of the base/platform...I would like to see actual renderings of the different towers.


https://archpaper.com/2020/03/howard...treet-seaport/

Howard Hughes and SOM attempt another tower in South Street Seaport

By KATE MAZADE
March 13, 2020











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  #47  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2020, 2:08 PM
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I hope the NIMBYs jump in the river on this one.

I wanna see this rise. The 990' one of course.
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  #48  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2020, 7:20 PM
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  #49  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2020, 8:39 PM
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please build !
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  #50  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2020, 11:33 PM
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Any estimate on start dates? Next couple of years possible? Those pictures above look great. Really hope it has a lot of red in the facade would be such a breath of fresh air instead of the usual completely blue.
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  #51  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2020, 1:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHigher View Post
Any estimate on start dates? Next couple of years possible? Those pictures above look great. Really hope it has a lot of red in the facade would be such a breath of fresh air instead of the usual completely blue.
They haven't started the approvals process yet. They are just finishing up with their community outreach to try and see what they will present to the City for approval.


Quote:
“I don’t think they once mentioned that 250 Water Street is in the historic district,” said Paul Goldstein, the chair of Community Board 1’s Waterfront, Parks and Cultural Committee, who attended the workshop. “I don’t think the word historic district even arose.”

Community Board 1 and local activists are expected to fight any large-scale project at 250 Water Street during the public land use review required for a zoning variance. And they are likely to oppose the developer’s efforts to scrap a city rule that specifically prohibits its needed transfer to 250 Water Street of 450,000 square feet of air rights from two Seaport properties that Hughes Corp. leases from the city.

That air rights transfer would almost certainly need the consent of Councilwoman Margaret Chin, who said she has her own doubts. She told the Trib in a statement: “With the future of the Seaport District at stake, the community’s priority is clear: we need a conversation about bulk and density that fully takes into account the context of this historic area. At this point, I don't believe the case has been properly made to residents that an air rights transfer is even necessary.”
Quote:
On a possible air rights transfer, a spokesperson for the city’s Economic Development Corp., the agency that oversees the Seaport properties, emphasized in a statement the long road ahead for the developer, which has to go through a “competitive public procurement as well as multiple land use approval processes.”

“As stewards of the Historic South Street Seaport,” the spokesperson said, “we take the community’s priorities seriously and look forward to engaging further with local stakeholders on how to best equip the neighborhood for the future.”

Hoping to pave a path forward, Hughes Corp. is promising an array of local improvements, including a new $50 million, 30,000-square-foot building for the South Street Seaport Museum at John and South Streets, and a $100 million, 75,000 square-foot building for an undetermined community use, at the site of the current New Market Building. Then there are the host of other possible local improvements, from an upgraded play street for the Peck Slip School to a community theater to a skate park.

The NIMBYs are going to fight to the death. But they also don't want the tower that could be built directly on the waterfront, which could be built as of right. And the 250 Water Street site is a site that has to be "cleaned up". They building that can go on site already is pretty massive, just not tall. But massive enough for the district. It would overshadow all of the historic buildings. They should recognize a "win" when they see it. Instead of the district being "sandwiched" in between two massive buildings, they would get one slimmer, taller tower, and keep the waterfront open.















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  #52  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2020, 2:02 PM
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  #53  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2020, 3:19 PM
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This looks pretty good. I think I prefer the 990-ft. version, though.

Lower Manhattan needs more slim supertalls. Doesn't really need more wedding cake designs.
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  #54  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2020, 4:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
This looks pretty good. I think I prefer the 990-ft. version, though.

Lower Manhattan needs more slim supertalls. Doesn't really need more wedding cake designs.

That setback design looks nice, but it’s the one least likely to get built (other than the squat one). It’s just too wide. If they could get over their aversion to height, the NIMBYs would realize the taller version would give less blockage. The 990 ft version is the best compromise, because even though the two-towered version offers a similar design, you get an extra tower with that plan. That difference in height won’t matter from the street.
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  #55  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2020, 10:13 PM
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Some helpful graphics from an earlier March presentation...



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  #56  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2020, 12:19 AM
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https://www.instagram.com/p/B-HuR17p9ZM/

The 990ft one reminds me of what is currently proposed on that Chicago Spire site
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  #57  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2020, 1:41 AM
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Originally Posted by owenhujb View Post
https://www.instagram.com/p/B-HuR17p9ZM/

The 990ft one reminds me of what is currently proposed on that Chicago Spire site

I wouldn't mind this. It's also SOM. It would probably have a different feel if it's not glass though, not sure.










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  #58  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2020, 6:41 AM
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my spouse’s office desk literally looked down on this site from 199 water, but unfortunately the company got sold and moved recently. oh well — at least she has nice views from hudson square now too.

o
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  #59  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2020, 5:14 PM
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Is that a real proposal? I love it
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  #60  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2020, 5:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
Is that a real proposal? I love it
It’s the tallest version (990 ft)...


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