How the UK and London misread their hand

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Even in the NE US in a place like NYC it could be argued that French should be learned as a second language due to proximity with Quebec and Canada, France as a bigger trading and strategic partner than Spain, and French's place in international organizations.

Hitching your entire wagon to Spanish because your hood bas bodegas is as if I prioritized Arabic to English because there are way more Lebanese than anglos on my street, and we have awesome shawarma shops here.

I am being a bit facetious here, but still...

Probably a third of NYC are native Spanish speakers, so it's not like people are picking it up from a high school course. There's really no opportunity to immerse yourself in French living in NYC. It's probably easier to learn Portuguese than it is to learn French. You can easily find areas of the city swamped with native Spanish or Chinese speakers. You find Portuguese areas in New Jersey, and now an apparently growing population in Queens. But the closest you'll get to a large community of French speakers will be a Haitian neighborhood.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Yuri

But back to the languages, I have this feeling Spanish is just another language. People have this perception it's 2nd to English, but in reality where is it? Maybe in the US people have this impression as 1/6 of population speaks Spanish and foreign-languages are not popular. Spanish ends up to be the most obvious pick.

I think it's the other way around lol. I think you're not appreciating how widely spoken Spanish is outside of Brazil.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

French is more useful in parts of Africa and the Middle East, yes, since there's no Spanish speaking country in Africa. But I think English is just as useful, if not more useful in that region.

No. Only the educated elite can speak some fair English in French-speaking Africa.

Man on the street will speak French to you. Quite oftentimes, even some neat French in their own accents. A lot of them are really fluent and sometimes their French is even far better than that of the French kids from the Paris or Marseille rough suburbs, which is quite both amusing and painful to me. Often, they master a greater range of the vocabulary. But they're not so comfortable with English.

I won't even bother replying the rest of your comment.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by mousquet

No. Only the educated elite can speak some fair English in French-speaking Africa.

Man on the street will speak French to you. Quite oftentimes, even some neat French in their own accents. A lot of them are really fluent and sometimes their French is even far better than that of the French kids from the Paris or Marseille rough suburbs, which is quite both amusing and painful to me. Often, they master a greater range of the vocabulary. But they're not so comfortable with English.

I won't even bother replying the rest of your comment.

Region = Africa as a whole. Obviously it is more advantageous to know French in a French-speaking country lol.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I think it's the other way around lol. I think you're not appreciating how widely spoken Spanish is outside of Brazil.

Spanish America and the US as a non-prestige language. Canada, Brazil, Europe, Africa, Asia, Oceania is null.

In South America, for instance, there are more people speaking Portuguese than Spanish.

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Well Spain is in Europe lol. I've also definitely come across Spanish speakers in London, the Netherlands, and Italy. And I'm sure there are still some Spanish speakers in the Philippines.

Spanish as a foreign language in Europe is behind English, German, French and Russian. I don't think being the 5th most sought foreign language counts as important.

In Philippines, only 4,000 people Spanish natively.


------------------------------------


Again, outside the US context, I really don't see how Spanish is important as a foreign language unless you're going to work in a Spanish-speaking country. But then again, you should learn the language of any country you want to live/work with.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Professionally speaking, I've never come across a condition where being fluent in French was a significant benefit. I have come across situations that greatly benefited people who were fluent in Spanish, Mandarin, and even Portuguese. This might be due to international business in the U.S. being focused more on the Americas, western Europe, and east Asia.

In Brazil, if you say you speak French or German, that alone will greatly benefit you, even if you don't have to use those languages at work. People will be immediately very impressed and your social score goes to the roof.

About Spanish, no one cares. Italian is a small niche.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Yuri

Spanish America and the US as a non-prestige language. Canada, Brazil, Europe, Africa, Asia, Oceania is null.

In South America, for instance, there are more people speaking Portuguese than Spanish.

Spanish is literally the most spoken language on the American continent. Not sure what there is to disagree with regarding Spanish being an important language.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Yuri

Again, outside the US context, I really don't see how Spanish is important as a foreign language

Spanish is #2 in the world by number of native speakers with ~475M speakers.

Spanish is #4 in the world by number of total speakers with ~550M speakers.

It's an important world language.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Spanish is literally the most spoken language on the American continent. Not sure what there is to disagree with regarding Spanish being an important language.

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Spanish is #2 in the world by number of native speakers with ~475M speakers.

Spanish is #4 in the world by number of total speakers with ~550M speakers.

It's an important world language.

There are two things here: it's obviously any important language because the number of speakers. Even Portuguese is (245 million native speakers, 260-270 million overall). But I'm talking about it as a foreign language.

I really don't see it as important, or necessarily more important than other languages that are traditionally learned (German, French, Russian, etc.).

Today it's only English and all the rest.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Yuri

it's obviously any important language because the number of speakers. Even Portuguese is (245 million native speakers, 260-270 million overall).

It's kinda wild how the western hemisphere is dominated by just 3 languages: Spanish, English & Portuguese.

The vast majority of the people on one whole half of our planet can speak in one or more of those three tongues.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

It's kinda wild how the western hemisphere is dominated by just 3 languages: Spanish, English & Portuguese.

The vast majority of the people on one whole half of our planet can speak one or more of those three tongues.

America (continent) has one of the most simple, straightforward history: it was entirely settled with people coming from Asia. Fast forward millenia, and in a very short timespan, it was completely conquered by Western Europeans. Another 300 years, they all got independent around the same time, but still controlled by the European descendants. The end.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

It's kinda wild how the western hemisphere is dominated by just 3 languages: Spanish, English & Portuguese.

The vast majority of the people on one whole half of our planet can speak in one or more of those three tongues.

I’m fluent in Spanish, and I’ve always been fascinated by the idea that if I bothered to pick up Portuguese (not that hard since it’s closely related), I’d have the entirety of the Americas as my “fluency playground”.

(In reality, I’d much rather re-learn German if I went for a fourth language. I was decent at it, but rusty as hell nowadays.)

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Yuri

There are two things here: it's obviously any important language because the number of speakers. Even Portuguese is (245 million native speakers, 260-270 million overall). But I'm talking about it as a foreign language.

I really don't see it as important, or necessarily more important than other languages that are traditionally learned (German, French, Russian, etc.).

Today it's only English and all the rest.

Not really. Spanish is the most spoken language in the Americas AND it is the primary language for the most countries in the Americas. In corporate America (United States) being fluent in Spanish is waaaaaay more valuable for conducting cross-border business than being fluent in German, French, or Russian. Much of the EU does business in English because that is the lingua franca of the continent. It's more important to know English than it is to know German, if you want to work for a German conglomerate. France is a little more protective of their language, but you can still work at companies in France and not need to be fluent in French. But the lingua franca for most of Latin America (Brazil being the exception) is Spanish.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Yuri

America (continent) has one of the most simple, straightforward history: it was entirely settled with people coming from Asia. Fast forward millenia, and in a very short timespan, it was completely conquered by Western Europeans. Another 300 years, they all got independent around the same time, but still controlled by the European descendants. The end.

Actually, there was a brief period when the Portuguese royal family relocated to Brazil. If they had stayed there, there could have been a European king in South America to this day, which would have been crazy.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Actually, there was a brief period when the Portuguese royal family relocated to Brazil. If they had stayed there, there could have been a European king in South America to this day, which would have been crazy.

The Portuguese and Brazilian monarchy hasn't existed since the early 20th century. But I think members of the former royal family still do reside in Brazil.

[Quixote]

Homebucket nailed it a few pages back. I regrettably took four years of French in high school and have forgotten 97% of it; I should’ve taken Spanish or Mandarin instead, which would’ve been easier to retain given that I live in SoCal. At least half of my colleagues are multilingual (largely due to our line of work), so being able to put “intermediate in Spanish/Mandarin” on my resume might’ve afforded me higher compensation.

As for French, I really don’t see a use* for it outside Canada and Europe. Spanish is not just “another language,” Russian is overrated, Mandarin and Arabic underrated, and German is easy for native English speakers and might be worthwhile if you work for a major international firm.

*Because French is a Latin language, knowing French should help with picking up Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese. It’s probably harder to go from one of those languages to French, as many native speakers of Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese say that (spoken) French is sort of an outlier. Italian is IMO one of those languages, like Japanese or Hebrew, that would be cool to learn strictly because it makes you come across as more sophisticated.

[JManc]

If I had a kid, I'd push them to learn both Spanish and Mandarin. I guess French would be handy if you were walking along the Champs-Élysées and had take a furious piss and needed to ask 'où sont les toilettes'

[ChiSoxRox]

Eh, plural of anecdote isn't data.

[edale]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

It's kinda wild how the western hemisphere is dominated by just 3 languages: Spanish, English & Portuguese.

The vast majority of the people on one whole half of our planet can speak in one or more of those three tongues.

And then there's Quebec...

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by edale

And then there's Quebec...

And French Guiana and a bunch of Caribbean islands and then all the various creoles.

And dutch in Suriname and some Caribbean islands.

And a bunch of native languages still alive, particularly deep in the Amazon and the northern reaches of North America.


So it's by no means 100%, but it's still probably true that over 90% of the people in the western hemisphere can speak at least one of the "big three" new world languages.