PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown III

[BrianTH]

The URA is putting the last two parcels in the PTC out for bid:

https://www.post-gazette.com/busines...s/202310200059

Link to URA RFP page:

https://www.ura.org/proposals/pittsb...-for-proposals

There is an extended discussion in the article about how between weakening markets and inflated construction costs, it is not clear what sorts of bids they will get.

This is a bit of a reflection of how office-parky development plans like the PTC are not particularly resilient. That said, on the whole I think the PTC has to count as a success on its own terms, and we shall see how it finishes off.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The URA is putting the last two parcels in the PTC out for bid:

https://www.post-gazette.com/busines...s/202310200059

Link to URA RFP page:

https://www.ura.org/proposals/pittsb...-for-proposals

There is an extended discussion in the article about how between weakening markets and inflated construction costs, it is not clear what sorts of bids they will get.

This is a bit of a reflection of how office-parky development plans like the PTC are not particularly resilient. That said, on the whole I think the PTC has to count as a success on its own terms, and we shall see how it finishes off.

I mean, at one point they were considering an apartment building there. And a hotel did go in. So there's nothing stopping the final projects from being more mixed-use.

Indeed, one of the two remaining parcels is on the waterfront, which would make a great location for a mid-sized apartment project.

[BrianTH]

Apparently the British Airways direct flight to London had a strong summer season following its expansion (we were happy to help!):

https://www.post-gazette.com/busines...s/202310200110

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I mean, at one point they were considering an apartment building there. And a hotel did go in. So there's nothing stopping the final projects from being more mixed-use.

Indeed, one of the two remaining parcels is on the waterfront, which would make a great location for a mid-sized apartment project.

Yeah, I'd love some apartments there on general principles, although as I recall some think the relative isolation of the site is an impediment.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Yeah, I'd love some apartments there on general principles, although as I recall some think the relative isolation of the site is an impediment.

I mean, the isolation isn't great from a walkability standpoint, but City Vista was built in a similarly isolated location, and seems to be going fine.

Still, there's actually a De Fer Coffee & Tea in one of the buildings, and a restaurant in the Hotel Indigo, which means it's not a 100% wasteland. Plus in nice weather it's really not a far walk at all from Southside Works

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by shantyside

if you get a chance take some ground level pictures of the building

I have quite a few. Its still a mess at ground level with all the mounds of dirt and asphalt. You can see how the building is integrated into the hillside which is pretty cool.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Yeah, I'd love some apartments there on general principles, although as I recall some think the relative isolation of the site is an impediment.

Originally Posted by eschaton

I mean, the isolation isn't great from a walkability standpoint, but City Vista was built in a similarly isolated location, and seems to be going fine.

Still, there's actually a De Fer Coffee & Tea in one of the buildings, and a restaurant in the Hotel Indigo, which means it's not a 100% wasteland. Plus in nice weather it's really not a far walk at all from Southside Works

The PTC really missed the boat by building out the waterfront parcels first, with the office/lab space.

The parcels lining 2nd Ave should've been developed first, and the waterfront portion left as open space/parkland, where residential/hotel/mixed-use could have been added on the waterfront parcels as demand grew, developing a "main street" out of Technology Drive. I think we would see a very successful development there today, with close access to Oakland and downtown, and we'd see much greater synergy with the SSW across the river.

Redeveloping this tract was a big swing back in the 80s/90s, so I give credit for the effort, but it still results in a strikeout... other cities were redeveloping their industrial waterfronts with much more acute vision at the time. Instead of a riverfront hub, we have a highly-disconnected waterfont office park with ghost town vibes.

[dfiler]

[Edit - I'd like to walk this back a little bit after remembering that the PTC was started before the hotmetal bridge. My criticism of decision-making was overreaching with that in mind. Though the points about optimal usage are still applicable without needing to assign blame.]

It's an excellent suburban office park and I think it has had good occupancy.

Though i agree that the riverfront site was squandered. They didn't leverage the waterfront at all. I've never seen a single person from that development engaging with their surroundings. Nobody is ever outside. They go straight from a parking garage to a cubicle or lab and then back again at the end of the day.

There should have been a river walk with patios off of each building. Instead, most of the buildings give their air conditioners and utilities that river view. Rather than workers having a beautiful spot for breaks, lunch, and company events, they basically wall off the development from the river.

The hot metal bridge existed at the time of construction but they didn't see the potential. PTC makes no effort to connect to that piece of public infrastructure. Their development would have been so much more desirable by taking advantage of the river and trail system. It's easier to attract tech workers and tech companies when you can advertise such amenities. It would have been nearly free! It's like having a parking lot for your building and making people drive over a curb instead of including a driveway. It is literally exactly analogous to that. It is simply mindbogglingly bad design.

The waterfront development in Homestead made some of the same mistakes, not realizing the value of the river and riverfront trail. The restaurants bafflingly don't use their river views at all. But at least the trail exists.

Hazelwood Green has a different scenario. They put the trail and road between the river and developable parcels. This is likely because there are two sets of tracks between it and the river, the tracks are somewhat elevated and one of them is fairly active. There is also a massive pier and barge infrastructure between the tracks and river, reachable by an underpass beneath the railroad. So it's a riverfront, but not on as close of a scale.

PTC didn't have that problem, they have a single set of low-elevation tracks that are immediately against the river bank. It's a seldom used spur to a single business. All PTC parcels easily overlook those tracks. You wouldn't even see them over a waste-high wall.

With that said, the PTC does appear to be occupied, profitable, and well-kept. It is a massive improvement to the concrete paved wasteland that existed before. My critique is probably best described as distinguishing between good and great. A successful suburban office park in the middle of an urban area is good, just not great.

[BrianTH]

Yeah, the lack of riverfront engagement in the projects from that era continues to strike me as odd. I guess it just wasn't a thing in Pittsburgh back then to value the rivers.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by dfiler

I've never seen a single person from that development engaging with their surroundings. Nobody is ever outside. They go straight from a parking garage to a cubicle or lab and then back again at the end of the day.

Yeah, like I said, ghost town vibes. I think the place is pretty empty since covid especially.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Yeah, the lack of riverfront engagement in the projects from that era continues to strike me as odd. I guess it just wasn't a thing in Pittsburgh back then to value the rivers.

Everyone feared the railroads too... accepting that developers wouldn't be able to do anything because the railroads "owned" the land and were overly aggressive about protecting their rights of way.

Well now, communties and developers are starting to hit back and go on offense against the almighty railroads who barely use many of their riverfront lines... and are highlighting the fact that the railroads never even purchased the land -- lands were granted to them by the public.

[pj3000]

This Troiani guy is such a sick mountebank, charlatan, con, fraud, crook, etc.

The type of guy who publicly claims, "We’ve got the best gelato machine in the world, the best pizza oven in the world,” notes Troiani. “We’ve got the best pasta maker."

He can't demo the historic buildings for the parking lot he wants, so now he's going demo them for bocce and pickleball... as "a gift to the city to stabilize this site and to create a use that will engage the city and the neighbors and the guests for years to come".

Why not build those bocce and pickleball courts on the lot in Carnegie left empty when your building (that housed your failing restaurant and dilapidated apartments) there burnt to the ground 5 years ago, Mike? Or on your Strip District parking lot on Penn Ave?

Especially if, as you say, this proposal is "not an income source".

Courting favor: Developer turns to bocce in bid to demolish Downtown buildings

https://www.post-gazette.com/busines...s/202310250046

Ten months after striking out before the state Supreme Court in his battle to tear down three Downtown buildings, a developer has turned to another type of court to get what he wants — a bocce court, to be exact.

Michael Troiani is proposing to demolish three dilapidated buildings at 100-106 Market Street and another on First Avenue and replace them with four bocce courts in what is being billed as an entertainment and recreational venue. If that works out, Mr. Troiani said, he may even add a pickleball court on part of the site closest to the Boulevard of the Allies.

The bocce court proposal is the latest twist in Mr. Troiani’s four-year battle with the city to raze the Market Street buildings, including the old Froggy’s restaurant.

His latest bid to bring down the buildings involves the bocce court proposal.

“I’m really looking to partner with my neighbors and really the urban village that we have to bring people together and play some games in good society and not worry about bricks falling on peoples’ heads,” he said.

During a development activities meeting before the Pittsburgh Downtown Partnership, Mr. Troiani said bocce courts are permitted as a matter of right in the Golden Triangle zoning district.

“This bocce court is a gift to the city to stabilize this site and to create a use that will engage the city and the neighbors and the guests for years to come,” he said.

Through Troy Development, he has submitted four separate applications to the planning commission to demolish the Market and First Avenue buildings, and another for the development of the bocce courts.

Architect Rob Pfaffmann, who has offices Downtown, said he is opposed to the plan.

“I think this is a little bit of a bait and switch,” he said. “We know that a bocce court will not be a long-term sustainable use for a valuable Downtown lot and that the historic preservation value of the building is far more valuable to the long-term viability of Downtown.”

Mr. Pfaffmann predicted that the bocce courts will be gone in five or 10 years.

“I think everybody knows this is not good city planning. It’s not good development for the city,” he argued.

Representatives for Mr. Troiani countered that the proposal is permitted by right.

Mr. Pfaffmann wasn’t impressed.

“Of course, it is. But the zoning code doesn’t make great cities. It is a framework for the development of cities. In this case, it is taking advantage of the situation,” he said. “Those of you who don’t know the reason they can’t expand the parking lot here is because that’s prohibited. They know they have to find an interim use. And so to the extent that this happens and it’s successful, that’s great. But mark my words: It will not happen that way.”

[xdv8]

The Troiani's are a perfect example of the type of people that hold Pittsburgh back. They should be facing thousands of dollars in fines for what they are doing to that property downtown. No one believes anything they say.

[eschaton]

The 10/31 Planning Commission agenda is up. There's literally only one item - related to a new neighborhood gateway sign in Allentown (and Mt. Oliver, though that's not in the city).

The slowdown in projects has really been notable over the last six months, across the Planning Commission, HRC, and even the ZBA. I presume this is related to the rise in interest rates making construction financing much more difficult.

[photoLith]

I live in Carnegie and The Troiani's decimated the once intact main street. Once the one building burnt they went ahead and tore the whole block of historic buildings down for no reason other than to have a big stupid vacant lot. These guys fucking hate historic buildings. Id love to drop a giant flaming pile of dog shit at his front door.

I wouldn't be too surprised if those historic buildings downtown catch on fire for no apparent reason some point soon. The Troianis are stuck in the 1970's and fail to see the value in historic buildings to the city. If I'm not mistaken, those buildings that ass owns downtown are from the 1850s or so, making them among the oldest buildings left downtown. What a dick.

[shantyside]

there's a good technical argument to be made that the median downtown/strip district sale price is heading to $600K

[shantyside]

Pittsburgh Public Schools approves tax breaks to convert Downtown offices into apartments

https://www.wesa.fm/education/2023-1...ces-apartments

"The Pittsburgh Public Schools’ board of directors voted Wednesday to approve tax breaks for developers who convert vacant Downtown office space into apartments.

More than 22% of downtown office space sat vacant during the first quarter of 2023, according to a presentation the URA gave board members last month. Leaders said that’s due to corporate tenants downsizing their office footprint or relocating entirely.

A combined 7 million square feet of Downtown office space is currently vacant, with another 7 million that could potentially face the same fate if property owners fail to pay off their mortgages.

“Vacant, dark buildings will continue to appeal their assessed value, and the taxes received by the three taxing bodies will decrease if we don't act. We don't want them to be owned by banks,” URA executive director Susheela Nemani-Stanger told the board. “We want to acknowledge the problem and we want to reposition these buildings for new assessed values.”

[EdwardManningBigelow]

Originally Posted by dfiler

Hazelwood Green has a different scenario. They put the trail and road between the river and developable parcels. This is likely because there are two sets of tracks between it and the river, the tracks are somewhat elevated and one of them is fairly active. There is also a massive pier and barge infrastructure between the tracks and river, reachable by an underpass beneath the railroad. So it's a riverfront, but not on as close of a scale.

I noticed on street view that there are private property signs at the rail crossings. So is there even a way for the public to (legally) access the riverfront? Are there any plans to develop any of the riverfront across the tracks for public use?

[shantyside]

there'a a big push to convert office buildings to residential and get more people living downtown

people live downtown because you can walk to work and to a variety of amenities

then the pittsburgh cultural trust scraps plans for another amenity

Plot change: Pittsburgh Cultural Trust scraps plans for Downtown cineplex

https://www.post-gazette.com/busines...s/202310090085

"Some eight years after first entertaining the idea, the Pittsburgh Cultural Trust is abandoning plans for a movie theater in Downtown.
In explaining the decision, the Trust stated that renovation costs had more than doubled compared to pre-pandemic estimates and that the “business model is no longer viable.”
Before the announcement, the Trust had been pursuing a plan to convert the former Bally Total Fitness Club space on Sixth Street near the Byham Theater into a six-screen theater and entertainment space."

so let me get this straight - back in the day when i was growing up and no one lived downtown there were four first-run movie theaters - the fulton, the gateway, the warner and chatham center

and now that people live there and they want even more people to live there, there are none and no plans to build any

more residents, fewer amenities - got it

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by EdwardManningBigelow

I noticed on street view that there are private property signs at the rail crossings. So is there even a way for the public to (legally) access the riverfront? Are there any plans to develop any of the riverfront across the tracks for public use?

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...Plan_Final.pdf

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by shantyside

there'a a big push to convert office buildings to residential and get more people living downtown

people live downtown because you can walk to work and to a variety of amenities

then the pittsburgh cultural trust scraps plans for another amenity

Plot change: Pittsburgh Cultural Trust scraps plans for Downtown cineplex

https://www.post-gazette.com/busines...s/202310090085

"Some eight years after first entertaining the idea, the Pittsburgh Cultural Trust is abandoning plans for a movie theater in Downtown.
In explaining the decision, the Trust stated that renovation costs had more than doubled compared to pre-pandemic estimates and that the “business model is no longer viable.”
Before the announcement, the Trust had been pursuing a plan to convert the former Bally Total Fitness Club space on Sixth Street near the Byham Theater into a six-screen theater and entertainment space."

so let me get this straight - back in the day when i was growing up and no one lived downtown there were four first-run movie theaters - the fulton, the gateway, the warner and chatham center

and now that people live there and they want even more people to live there, there are none and no plans to build any

more residents, fewer amenities - got it

Back in the day suburban living was a new thing and most of the retail was still concentrated in and around cities. Malls and strip malls changed the American landscape.