CHICAGO | General Discussions - Page 99

LouisVanDerWright · #**1961** Posted **Dec 8, 2019, 9:37 PM**

I don't know what y'all are talking about. I am buying a big ass SFH that's in Belding school district, a block from a big park, a couple blocks from both a metra and a blue line stop, a couple blocks from the highway, on an extra deep double lot for a hair over $300k... The taxes are only $6500 or so a year.

The problem only exists when people ignore the other vast sections of the city that sit right on the edge of these desirable areas, but don't have a full scale Milwaukee Ave in Logan Square yuppie boom going on. I could probably find you 200 SFH around the city in areas like this in 5 minutes of searching on Redfin.

OrdoSeclorum · #**1962** Posted **Dec 9, 2019, 3:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

I don't know what y'all are talking about. I am buying a big ass SFH that's in Belding school district, a block from a big park, a couple blocks from both a metra and a blue line stop, a couple blocks from the highway, on an extra deep double lot for a hair over $300k... The taxes are only $6500 or so a year.

The problem only exists when people ignore the other vast sections of the city that sit right on the edge of these desirable areas, but don't have a full scale Milwaukee Ave in Logan Square yuppie boom going on. I could probably find you 200 SFH around the city in areas like this in 5 minutes of searching on Redfin.

I was about to write this same thing. My wife and I are looking and a lot of places I see I think "that would be way out of our price range", I'll look on Zillow and see that it's about $600K or something. And the public schools in Chicago are actually pretty good. My nephew went to elementary school in Edgewater a few years ago and it was delightful.

The livability in Chicago only seems bad until you realize that every other city is worse. If you're willing to accept car dependent sprawl, I'm sure you can find someplace cheaper. If you want to live in a city, Chicago is and will remain the best bang for the buck I know of.

Steely Dan · #**1963** Posted **Dec 9, 2019, 3:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

However, what I'm saying is the reality in Chicago, upper middle class families typically do not want neighbors above or below them - and more often than not will not consider condos.

three things:

1. i think you and i have different ideas of what what constitutes "upper middle class" in chicago. you're talking about 7 figure houses, and that's straight-up upper class in chicago IMO. UMC would be more like $400,000 - $700,000 houses, based on the general rule of thumb that home price should ideally be ~2.5x household AGI.

2. we know many upper middle class people raising their families in mulit-family (including ourselves). the most common version is those who have bought a 2-flat and duplex-downed the 1st floor/basement into their "forever home" and then have an upstairs tenant to pay the property taxes for them.

3. what upper middle class people do or do not not do isn't ultimately that much of a concern to me. i was simply pushing back against your assertion that chicago is too expensive for upper middle class people to raise families in. i would argue the exact opposite. compared against the other 1st tier urban cities in america, chicago has an unbelievable amount of family-sized housing at utterly bargain-basement prices compared to NYC, SF, boston, LA, etc. and as LDVW pointed-out, chicago is also blessed with the "go one more neighborhood over" thing where, if houses are too expensive in "A", go a mile west to "B" and they're 20% less expensive, and if that still doesn't work, go another mile west over to "C" and prices drop even more. this is a big giant wide-open city, not some cute little constricted island or peninsula where everything larger than a one-bedroom is $750,000+.

BrinChi · #**1964** Posted **Dec 9, 2019, 6:29 PM**

LouisVanDerWright · #**1965** Posted **Dec 9, 2019, 9:28 PM**

The.

https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/44...m_content=link

"Affordable".

https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/46...m_content=link

Housing.

https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/35...m_content=link

"Crisis".

https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/39...m_content=link

Is.

https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/36...m_content=link

A.

https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/36...m_content=link

Lie.

https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/24...m_content=link

When you can buy a SFH in Logan Square with beautiful original features in great shape for $429k then you know anyone telling you housing in Chicago is not affordable is a dirty dirty liar. These links are not on the South side. These links are not dilapidated. These links are not far from the train. You won't be living in architectural digest, but last time I checked Onyx countertops and Wolf appliances are not a human right.

marothisu · #**1966** Posted **Dec 20, 2019, 3:28 AM**

New Census data is out for 2018 and it's the type where you can calculate by community area. So in the spirit of things, here are the top 15 areas that grew between 2017 and 2018:

1. The Loop: +1767 people
2. Jefferson Park: +1181 people
3. Near North Side: +1102 people
4. Edgewater: +1057 people
5. West Ridge: +997 people
6. Lincoln Park: +987 people
7. South Shore: +931 people
8. South Chicago: +758 people
9. Belmont Cragin: +745 people
10. Near South Side: +723 people
11. Hyde Park: +690 people
12. Portage Park: +648 people
13. Avondale: +541 people
14. Douglas: +487 people
15. East Side: +459 people

Between 2010 and 2018, Near North Side, Near South Side, The Loop, and Near West Side have gained 50,840 people which is a growth rate of +31% (comparing ACS to ACS. If you compare Decennial Census to ACS then it's nearly +29,000 people growth or +15%). Combined population now at 214,718 people.

LouisVanDerWright · #**1967** Posted **Dec 20, 2019, 4:09 PM**

Impressive to see Jeff Park running with the big dogs on there. Same with Avondale, Portage, and Belmont Craigin. Now that the spigot is turned off for all points South, expect a gentrifcation bomb to go off West of Central Park and North of Diversey across the far NW side...

Handro · #**1968** Posted **Dec 20, 2019, 4:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

Impressive to see Jeff Park running with the big dogs on there. Same with Avondale, Portage, and Belmont Craigin. Now that the spigot is turned off for all points South, expect a gentrifcation bomb to go off West of Central Park and North of Diversey across the far NW side...

I am a little surprised by Jefferson park, it seems like business up there is suffering just from the eye test. I just read yesterday that CVS at Lawrence and Milwaukee is closing, meaning that 3/4 corners of the intersection are vacant...

But this makes me glad, no reason that neighborhood shouldn't be popular with it's connectivity via blue line/Metra and proximity to the expressway and airport.

marothisu · #**1969** Posted **Dec 20, 2019, 5:33 PM**

Keep in mind this data is for 2018 and we're at the end of 2019 now. Jefferson Park is up 1279 people from 2010 to 2018. Here is a look at those changes from 2010 to 2018 by community area. 43 of 77 community areas are up in population since 2010.

The CAs that have grown since 2010 have grown by 108,718 people - nearly half of that is downtown. The growth rate of those areas is a combined 6.9%. The areas that have lost population total up to -86,976 people or a rate of -7.7%

1. The Loop: +17,654 people
2. Near North Side: +13776 people
3. Near West Side: +12945 people
4. Near South Side: +6465 people
5. West Ridge: +5143 people
6. Avondale: +4879 people
7. Lincoln Park: +4262 people
8. Lake View: +3357 people
9. Lincoln Square: +3296 people
10. North Center: +2311 people
11. Bridgeport: +2293 people
12. Uptown: +2084 people
13. South Lawndale: +2041 people
14. Humboldt Park: +1762 people
15. Douglas: +1744 people
16. Clearing: +1670 people
17. Hyde Park: +1639 people
18. Ashburn: +1604 people
19. Woodlawn: +1471 people
20. West Elsdon: +1429 people
21. Dunning: +1391 people
22. Riverdale: +1374 people
23. Grand Boulevard: +1319 people
24. Portage Park: +1317 people
25. Jefferson Park: +1279 people
26. Oakland: +1015 people
27. Garfield Ridge: +1012 people
28. Washington Park: +877 people
29. Brighton Park: +871 people
30. Mount Greenwood: +845 people
31. Montclare: +740 people
32. West Town: +709 people
33. Edison Park: +597 people
34. O'Hare: +564 people
35. Morgan Park: +499 people
36. Belmont Cragin: +495 people
37. Gage Park: +452 people
38. Edgewater: +417 people
39. South Shore: +320 people
40. McKinley Park: +294 people
41. Forest Glen: +259 people
42. Armour Square: +124 people
43. Archer Heights: +123 people
44. Rogers Park: -134 people
45. East Garfield Park: -145 people
46. Avalon Park: -163 people
47. Washington Heights: -289 people
48. Norwood Park: -290 people
49. North Park: -437 people
50. West Lawn: -522 people
51. Kenwood: -596 people
52. Fuller Park: -740 people
53. Pullman: -907 people
54. East Side: -986 people
55. Hermosa: -1094 people
56. Burnside: -1096 people
57. Beverly: -1119 people
58. Irving Park: -1188 people
59. North Lawndale: -1284 people
60. Albany Park: -1333 people
61. Hegewisch: -1551 people
62. South Deering: -1561 people
63. Logan Square: -1763 people
64. Calumet Heights: -1998 people
65. Chicago Lawn: -2120 people
66. West Garfield Park: -2382 people
67. Lower West Side: -2719 people
68. South Chicago: -3415 people
69. Greater Grand Crossing: -4034 people
70. New City: -4040 people
71. Chatham: -4370 people
72. Austin: -4824 people
73. West Pullman: -5895 people
74. Roseland: -6540 people
75. Auburn Gresham: -7730 people
76. Englewood: -9240 people
77. West Englewood: -10,471 people

marothisu · #**1970** Posted **Dec 20, 2019, 5:37 PM**

Here's some random foreign born changes from 2017 to 2018.

Born in China, change from 2017 to 2018:
1. McKinley Park: +563 people
2. Near North Side: +534 people
3. The Loop: +327 people
4. Lincoln Park: +261 people
5. Lake View: +171 people
6. Douglas: +162 people
7. O'Hare: +92 people
8. Woodlawn: +88 people
9. Near West Side: +82 people
10. Brighton Park: +70 people

Born in India, change from 2017 to 2018:
1. O'Hare: +673 people
2. Near North Side: +338 people
3. Near West Side: +258 people
4. The Loop: +249 people
5. Douglas: +204 people
6. Lake View: +128 people
7. Lincoln Park: +117 people
8. Jefferson Park: +84 people
9. Bridgeport: +54 people
10. Forest Glen: +51 people

Born in Mexico, change from 2017 to 2018
1. South Shore: +295 people
2. West Englewood: +190 people
3. Garfield Ridge: +153 people
4. Dunning: +143 people
5. Ashburn: +136 people
6. The Loop: +135 people
7. Forest Glen: +127 people
8. Clearing: +118 people
9. Armour Square: +95 people
10. South Chicago: +79 people

marothisu · #**1971** Posted **Dec 20, 2019, 6:29 PM**

2018 data for ACS was released a few days ago. Here are the changes by community area for households earning $100K+. Out of the 77 community areas in town, 74 of them gained households making $100K+.

6 community areas in 2018 have over 50% of households earning $100K+ with a 7th barely below 50% (Near North Side). In 2017 that was at 3 community areas and in 2016, it was only 1 community area.

1. Near North Side: +2003 households
2. West Town: +1438 households
3. Logan Square: +1176 households
4. Lincoln Park: +1154 households
5. The Loop: +906 households
6. Lake View: +905 households
7. Edgewater: +893 households
8. Irving Park: +845 households
9. Uptown: +719 households
10. Austin: +662 households
11. Near South Side: +654 households
12. Norwood Park: +649 households
13. North Center: +628 households
14. Avondale: +600 households
15. Dunning: +583 households
16. Rogers Park: +496 households
17. Portage Park: +484 households
18. Jefferson Park: +401 households
19. Grand Boulevard: +348 households
20. Albany Park: +345 households
21. Bridgeport: +343 households
22. Near West Side: +332 households
23. Belmont Cragin: +314 households
24. Morgan Park: +314 households
25. West Ridge: +301 households
26. Lower West Side: +286 households
27. Humboldt Park: +281 households
28. Mount Greenwood: +268 households
29. Garfield Ridge: +262 households
30. Washington Heights: +261 households
31. Beverly: +239 households
32. South Shore: +236 households
33. Hyde Park: +234 households
34. West Pullman: +227 households
35. O'Hare: +188 households
36. Auburn Gresham: +176 households
37. Ashburn: +163 households
38. Woodlawn: +156 households
39. South Chicago: +154 households
40. South Lawndale: +143 households
41. West Lawn: +139 households
42. Chicago Lawn: +137 households
43. North Park: +131 households
44. Douglas: +129 households
45. Montclare: +127 households
46. Brighton Park: +126 households
47. Lincoln Square: +125 households
48. South Deering: +120 households
49. Gage Park: +114 households
50. Englewood: +114 households
51. West Elsdon: +112 households
52. Kenwood: +107 households
53. McKinley Park: +105 households
54. Pullman: +98 households
55. West Englewood: +93 households
56. North Lawndale: +91 households
57. Avalon Park: +82 households
58. East Side: +77 households
59. Washington Park: +76 households
60. Greater Grand Crossing: +67 households
61. Hermosa: +63 households
62. Roseland: +60 households
63. New City: +60 households
64. Forest Glen: +59 households
65. West Garfield Park: +52 households
66. Edison Park: +47 households
67. Hegewisch: +45 households
68. Clearing: +41 households
69. Calumet Heights: +38 households
70. Burnside: +35 households
71. Riverdale: +35 households
72. Oakland: +19 households
73. Fuller Park: +8 households
74. Archer Heights: +1 household
75. East Garfield Park: -23 households
76. Armour Square: -32 households
77. Chatham: -32 households

Chisouthside · #**1972** Posted **Dec 20, 2019, 6:46 PM**

Hi Marothisu,

Thank you for posting all this data. Also this is from 2010 to 2018 right?
If so looking at the data I wonder if a regression model would find a relationship with rising 100k households = lower population/higher population loss. Maybe neighborhoods like Englewood/West Englewood, Aubusn Gresham, Logan Square, Lower West Side, Rogers Park that lost population but gained 100k household might be enough to push the strength of the relationship between those two variables.

LouisVanDerWright · #**1973** Posted **Dec 20, 2019, 6:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu

New Census data is out for 2018 and it's the type where you can calculate by community area. So in the spirit of things, here are the top 15 areas that grew between 2017 and 2018:

1. The Loop: +1767 people
2. Jefferson Park: +1181 people
3. Near North Side: +1102 people
4. Edgewater: +1057 people
5. West Ridge: +997 people
6. Lincoln Park: +987 people
7. South Shore: +931 people
8. South Chicago: +758 people
9. Belmont Cragin: +745 people
10. Near South Side: +723 people
11. Hyde Park: +690 people
12. Portage Park: +648 people
13. Avondale: +541 people
14. Douglas: +487 people
15. East Side: +459 people

Between 2010 and 2018, Near North Side, Near South Side, The Loop, and Near West Side have gained 50,840 people which is a growth rate of +31% (comparing ACS to ACS. If you compare Decennial Census to ACS then it's nearly +29,000 people growth or +15%). Combined population now at 214,718 people.

Apparently my post about this was deleted or something...

Impressive to see Jeff Park up there rolling with the big dogs. The whole far NW side is on this list which is interesting since the population of areas like Logan or Wicker Park actually fell significantly as the areas gentrified.

marothisu · #**1974** Posted **Dec 20, 2019, 7:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

Apparently my post about this was deleted or something...

I posted it in 2 different threads

Quote:

Impressive to see Jeff Park up there rolling with the big dogs. The whole far NW side is on this list which is interesting since the population of areas like Logan or Wicker Park actually fell significantly as the areas gentrified.

2017 to 2018 growth is impressive relatively. Always curious what 2019 data will say but we'll have to wait a year.

Steely Dan · #**1975** Posted **Dec 20, 2019, 7:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu

I posted it in 2 different threads

that's never a good idea because the resulting discussion just gets fragmented and confused.

hence why i've now moved all of your recent demographic info posts to the general discussions thread.

marothisu · #**1976** Posted **Dec 20, 2019, 7:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

that's never a good idea because the resulting discussion just gets fragmented and confused.

hence why i've now moved all of your recent demographic info posts to the general discussions thread.

Sure. However, why was a post about household INCOME moved from the economics thread into this? That has everything to do with the economy of Chicago currently.

Steely Dan · #**1977** Posted **Dec 20, 2019, 8:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu

why was a post about household INCOME moved from the economics thread into this?

because all of this neighborhood-level demographic data overlaps a great deal and its much cleaner to discuss all of it in one thread.

the business and economics thread should really be more of a catchall for one-off economic and business development stories.

marothisu · #**1978** Posted **Dec 21, 2019, 12:47 AM**

Here are the biggest changes from 2010 to 2018 of the major racial groups by community area:

White, Non Hispanic
1. The Loop: +10,095 people
2. Near North Side: +8831 people
3. Logan Square: +6960 people
4. Near West Side: +6047 people
5. West Town: +5331 people
6. Near South Side: +3775 people
7. Uptown: +3329 people
8. Rogers Park: +3214 people
9. Lincoln Square: +2590 people
10. Avondale: +2299 people
11. Albany Park: +1716 people
12. Lake View: +1712 people
13. North Center: +1678 people
14. Humboldt Park: +1542 people
15. Lincoln Park: +1492 people
16. Lower West Side: +1157 people
17. West Ridge: +1043 people
18. South Shore: +798 people
19. Hyde Park: +747 people
20. North Park: +591 people
21. Woodlawn: +530 people
22. Chatham: +481 people
23. East Garfield Park: +452 people
24. North Lawndale: +418 people
25. Kenwood: +274 people

Asian
1. Near West Side: +4601 people
2. Near North Side: +4150 people
3. The Loop: +3405 people
4. Near South Side: +2582 people
5. Bridgeport: +2080 people
6. McKinley Park: +1391 people
7. Brighton Park: +1294 people
8. Douglas: +1259 people
9. Lincoln Park: +1216 people
10. West Town: +1201 people
11. Armour Square: +942 people
12. Lower West Side: +892 people
13. Jefferson Park: +787 people
14. West Ridge: +746 people
15. Archer Heights: +650 people
16. Hyde Park: +611 people
17. Lake View: +579 people
18. Woodlawn: +546 people
19. Portage Park: +470 people
20. Edgewater: +403 people
21. O'Hare: +401 people
22. Mount Greenwood: +362 people
23. Belmont Cragin: +345 people
24. Dunning: +325 people
25. Albany Park: +314 people

Black
1. West Ridge: +2970 people
2. The Loop: +1278 people
3. Riverdale: +1169 people
4. Morgan Park: +996 people
5. Oakland: +882 people
6. Grand Boulevard: +827 people
7. Albany Park: +608 people
8. Dunning: +471 people
9. Bridgeport: +438 people
10. Hermosa: +369 people
11. East Side: +321 people
12. Edison Park: +223 people
13. Lower West Side: +159 people
14. Washington Park: +150 people
15. Lincoln Park: +135 people
16. Clearing: +123 people
17. O'Hare: +122 people
18. North Park: +73 people
19. Brighton Park: +59 people
20. Norwood Park: +57 people
21. Jefferson Park: +33 people

Hispanic
1. Belmont Cragin: +5937 people
2. Austin: +5837 people
3. Garfield Ridge: +5577 people
4. Chicago Lawn: +5197 people
5. Dunning: +4094 people
6. Ashburn: +4032 people
7. Humboldt Park: +3829 people
8. Clearing: +3771 people
9. South Lawndale: +3349 people
10. Portage Park: +3014 people
11. West Elsdon: +2315 people
12. The Loop: +2205 people
13. Montclare: +2062 people
14. Near West Side: +1900 people
15. New City: +1710 people
16. West Lawn: +1688 people
17. West Englewood: +1490 people
18. Gage Park: +1433 people
19. Lincoln Square: +1356 people
20. Near North Side: +1319 people
21. Jefferson Park: +1164 people
22. North Lawndale: +1113 people
23. Morgan Park: +1007 people
24. Englewood: +880 people
25. South Shore: +709 people

marothisu · #**1979** Posted **Dec 21, 2019, 1:21 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chisouthside

Hi Marothisu,

Thank you for posting all this data. Also this is from 2010 to 2018 right?
If so looking at the data I wonder if a regression model would find a relationship with rising 100k households = lower population/higher population loss. Maybe neighborhoods like Englewood/West Englewood, Aubusn Gresham, Logan Square, Lower West Side, Rogers Park that lost population but gained 100k household might be enough to push the strength of the relationship between those two variables.

Hi that's correct - from 2010 to 2018. I think Logan Square DEFINITELY fits what you're looking for. The population has gone down 1763 people between 2010 and 2018 and the number of households went down by 302 but the number of $100K+ households increased by 4724 in the same time period.

The following are all the community areas that lost total households between 2010 and 2018, but gained in $100K+ households. In bold are the areas that gained more of these $100K+ households than they lost in total households

1. Lakeview: +4958 $100K+ households
2. Logan Square: +4724
3. Lincoln Park: +3253
4. Portage Park: +2490
5. Uptown: +2309
6. North Center: +2147
7. Edgewater: +2032
8. Avondale: +1444
9. Austin: +1211
10. South Shore: +794
11. Edison Park: +782
12. Washington Heights: +707
13. Kenwood: +578
14. O'Hare: +462
15. Beverly: +459
16. West Englewood: +449
17. Roseland: +292
18. Pullman: +242
19. West Pullman: +216
20. South Chicago: +196
21. Auburn Gresham: +190
22. East Side: +140
23. Hegewisch: +134
24. Avalon Park: +106
25. South Deering: +88
26. Burnside: +75
27. Fuller Park: +64

Out of these areas, here is the difference between the gain in the number of $100K+ households and the loss in the number of total households (absolute value):

1. Logan Square: +4422
2. Lakeview: +3520
3. Lincoln Park: +3158
4. Portage Park: +2431
5. Uptown: +2238
6. North Center: +1682
7. Edgewater: +1363
8. Avondale: +1191
9. Edison Park: +708
10. Kenwood: +564
11. O'Hare: +415
12. Washington Heights: +376
13. Pullman: +152
14. South Shore: +100
15. Austin: +88
16. Fuller Park: +15
17. Beverly: -7
18. Burnside: -27
19. South Deering: -41
20. Avalon: -81
21. East Side: -100
22. Hegewisch: -238
23. Auburn Gresham: -542
24. West Englewood: -704
25. West Pullman: -809
26. South Chicago: -910
27. Roseland: -1725

jtown,man · #**1980** Posted **Dec 21, 2019, 2:21 AM**

Thoughts after living in Chicago for a fews days...

1. The blue line trains seemed a little...I don't know. A lot of people had luggage and it seemed kind of cramped. I got lucky and found the lone back seat so I didn't feel rude taking up too much space.
2. The traffic is aggressive. I, of course, expected this, but it's been more fun than I had expected.
3. It was COLD...getting better but that cold smacked me in the face, hard.
4. I knew this city was massive, even if you just explore(even by car) the more desirable neighborhoods but my God, this place is huge. It's scale is massive.

I haven't been here long at all, but so far I have had nothing but good interactions with people, love my neighborhood, and can't wait to get the gf here to go out and explore more. Yall are so damn lucky to live here and now I am too!