PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Very happy they saved this building. They are also talking about converting Martha St to a pedestrian street…fingers crossed. Any word on which restaurant group or the restaurant type? I heard it was the group behind Suraya.

Maybe. See this at Axios: https://www.axios.com/local/philadel...ast-kensington

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by Jayfar

Maybe. See this at Axios: https://www.axios.com/local/philadel...ast-kensington

I heard he was involved with the Suraya people. Who knows. Does he just do pizza? Hope it’s more than that.

[TonyTone]

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

I might in the minority of opinions on this, but honestly I would feel better about the 22nd and Walnut development if it was 12-story version of this building. Of course, I would like it to be taller, but it's the design I truly hate about the current Walnut st. proposal.

Like give us some glass, some outside space, an interesting entrance.

[TonyTone]

Philadelphians push for Roosevelt Boulevard subway project revival





https://www.phillytrib.com/news/loca...265a8d21a.html

[iamrobk]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

Philadelphians push for Roosevelt Boulevard subway project revival





https://www.phillytrib.com/news/loca...265a8d21a.html

Just IMO but if this is ever going to happen, they should consider stopping at Cottman, or at least funding that part separately as "Phase 1" and leaving the rest for Phase 2. That portion is probably only 40% of the distance but IMO would likely have 60% (or more) of the ridership given the density along the Boulevard there, compared to what it's like in the Far Northeast (and lower Bucks). I also think that, for all we like to talk about equity and equality, building the Boulevard subway would do a lot to further those goals. I think it could definitely have a very positive impact on the working class neighborhoods of the lower northeast, in terms of giving them greater access and connectivity to the rest of the city. I could also see it spurring further dense developments along the Boulevard, helping keep housing prices in check.

But all this said, let's face it, the Boulevard subway seems extraordinarily unlikely. I can dream, though...

[DeltaNerd]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

Just IMO but if this is ever going to happen, they should consider stopping at Cottman, or at least funding that part separately as "Phase 1" and leaving the rest for Phase 2. That portion is probably only 40% of the distance but IMO would likely have 60% (or more) of the ridership given the density along the Boulevard there, compared to what it's like in the Far Northeast (and lower Bucks). I also think that, for all we like to talk about equity and equality, building the Boulevard subway would do a lot to further those goals. I think it could definitely have a very positive impact on the working class neighborhoods of the lower northeast, in terms of giving them greater access and connectivity to the rest of the city. I could also see it spurring further dense developments along the Boulevard, helping keep housing prices in check.

But all this said, let's face it, the Boulevard subway seems extraordinarily unlikely. I can dream, though...

It's going to be a hard fight but it seems like most sane people are in support of the Rapid transit for the Roosevelt Boulevard.
The best way to sell it is about the one seat connection. From the northeast you can be connected to Chinatown, Sports complex, Temple, city hall, Central, Girls High, other doctors along Broad.
The northeast is going to need upzoing for TOD as well.
Difficult fight if you support it's that what matters right now

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

Just IMO but if this is ever going to happen, they should consider stopping at Cottman, or at least funding that part separately as "Phase 1" and leaving the rest for Phase 2. That portion is probably only 40% of the distance but IMO would likely have 60% (or more) of the ridership given the density along the Boulevard there, compared to what it's like in the Far Northeast (and lower Bucks). I also think that, for all we like to talk about equity and equality, building the Boulevard subway would do a lot to further those goals. I think it could definitely have a very positive impact on the working class neighborhoods of the lower northeast, in terms of giving them greater access and connectivity to the rest of the city. I could also see it spurring further dense developments along the Boulevard, helping keep housing prices in check.

But all this said, let's face it, the Boulevard subway seems extraordinarily unlikely. I can dream, though...

I just can't imagine why this is further down the queue than the KOP line. Way more bang for the buck. Not even close.

[Knight Hospitaller]

From the looks of this, they might also extend the Frankford El a short distance up to where Bustleton Ave crosses the Boulevard.

[iamrobk]

Originally Posted by allovertown

I just can't imagine why this is further down the queue than the KOP line. Way more bang for the buck. Not even close.

God, don't remind me.

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

From the looks of this, they might also extend the Frankford El a short distance up to where Bustleton Ave crosses the Boulevard.

Would be nice but hardly essential IMO and I could see it being a logistical nightmare given the rail yard (for lack of a better description) at FTC where the El currently ends. But even if they did extend the BSL up the Boulevard, I'm not sure what exactly the point of extending the El would be too. So that people could take the Boulevard line, transfer to the El, and take that into town? I just don't really see the point given that we can already do that with busses. Don't get me wrong, it would be a nice addition, but it seems more like connecting the dots just for the sake of it rather than solving any real problem.

Though that made me think, maybe extending the El up Bustleton to the Boulevard and then running Bus Rapid Transit up and down the Boulevard would be a much cheaper way to accomplish this. And "BRT" could just be a dedicated bus lane or whatever, the idea would basically just be to connect people to an extended El at Bustleton and the Boulevard (and maybe build a "fancy" station there for people to connect at). Clearly I need to get to bed because I'm already dreaming.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

Would be nice but hardly essential IMO and I could see it being a logistical nightmare given the rail yard (for lack of a better description) at FTC where the El currently ends. But even if they did extend the BSL up the Boulevard, I'm not sure what exactly the point of extending the El would be too. So that people could take the Boulevard line, transfer to the El, and take that into town? I just don't really see the point given that we can already do that with busses. Don't get me wrong, it would be a nice addition, but it seems more like connecting the dots just for the sake of it rather than solving any real problem.

Though that made me think, maybe extending the El up Bustleton to the Boulevard and then running Bus Rapid Transit up and down the Boulevard would be a much cheaper way to accomplish this. And "BRT" could just be a dedicated bus lane or whatever, the idea would basically just be to connect people to an extended El at Bustleton and the Boulevard (and maybe build a "fancy" station there for people to connect at). Clearly I need to get to bed because I'm already dreaming.

IDK, Northern Liberties, Fishtown etc. is becoming a major destination. It would only extend the EL one mile. I think it would be worth it just to make it that much quicker and easier for everyone along this new line to get to that part of town. Not to mention, if you're heading basically anywhere along the EL, you might prefer to switch over sooner rather than later and have to deal with the city hall concourse.

If this went forward this would be one of the most efficient new trainlines in the country in terms of cost to rider ratio. There's finally some money for transit projects like this. I just don't see why you settle for BRT.

[Urbanthusiat]

^To add on to that point, I think extending the MFL to connect with and extended BSL (a big if) has a lot of value and isn't just "connecting the dots just for the sake of it." Consider Metcalfe's Law which says the the value of a network is proportional to the square of the number of nodes. Metcalfe's law is for communications of course but the same principles apply - you open up so many more route and trip options for people by having them connected that people use it more. I definitely understand that it would be a major logistical challenge and maybe it's not really feasible (I'm not an engineer), but just wanted to point out that creating nodes isn't just for the sake of it looking cool on a map, there's real tangible benefits. That's why I think rail in NYC and Europe is so much more successful, because there are far many more crossing nodes - not just more miles of track. Big European cities' transport networks look a lot more like a "web" whereas transit in the US is a lot more like spokes originating from a single point. Being on a web is so much more convenient then having to take a spoke into the hub and the going back out. In the example we're talking about, people in the Northeast would be a lot more include to take public transportation to Port Richmond/Fishtown/Northern Liberties if the lines were connected than if they weren't - it would add up to 30-45 minutes probably.

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by allovertown

I just can't imagine why this is further down the queue than the KOP line. Way more bang for the buck. Not even close.

KOP Rail is a huge mistake in the making. The Boulevard Subway, a project that makes SIGNIFICANTLY more sense, is further down the queue due to the composition of SEPTA's Board: two members are appointed from each county (Philadelphia, Delaware, Montgomery, Bucks, and Chester), along with five members appointed from government officials in Harrisburg. With this setup, the suburban counties can easily prioritize projects happening outside of the city over those that should happen inside of the city. It's a shame, as more people in my age range would probably consider living in the Northeast if it wasn't for the lack of a one-seat ride to Center City outside of the vicinity of Regional Rail stations.

Also, instead of extending the El along Bustleton, it should be extended along Frankford to Rhawn. This would require constructing a new station above Frankford Ave to replace Bridge and Pratt, but it would be worth it. There is a ton of potential ridership between Bridge and Rhawn Streets.

[thoughtcriminal]

I wonder if they could combine this with extending the subway to the Navy Yard on the south end? Sell it as an overall BSL expansion?

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

^To add on to that point, I think extending the MFL to connect with and extended BSL (a big if) has a lot of value and isn't just "connecting the dots just for the sake of it." Consider Metcalfe's Law which says the the value of a network is proportional to the square of the number of nodes. Metcalfe's law is for communications of course but the same principles apply - you open up so many more route and trip options for people by having them connected that people use it more. I definitely understand that it would be a major logistical challenge and maybe it's not really feasible (I'm not an engineer), but just wanted to point out that creating nodes isn't just for the sake of it looking cool on a map, there's real tangible benefits. That's why I think rail in NYC and Europe is so much more successful, because there are far many more crossing nodes - not just more miles of track. Big European cities' transport networks look a lot more like a "web" whereas transit in the US is a lot more like spokes originating from a single point. Being on a web is so much more convenient then having to take a spoke into the hub and the going back out. In the example we're talking about, people in the Northeast would be a lot more include to take public transportation to Port Richmond/Fishtown/Northern Liberties if the lines were connected than if they weren't - it would add up to 30-45 minutes probably.

1000% this. If completed in this manner, it would be it's own circle line of sorts, but encompassing the areas north and east of Broad and the El. Would be quite powerful as a development tool. I mean, we imagine all this traffic is inbound but in reality, it doesn't have to be that way. If the El were extended Northbound, it would create a lot of circulation within the city.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

KOP Rail is a huge mistake in the making. The Boulevard Subway, a project that makes SIGNIFICANTLY more sense, is further down the queue due to the composition of SEPTA's Board: two members are appointed from each county (Philadelphia, Delaware, Montgomery, Bucks, and Chester), along with five members appointed from government officials in Harrisburg. With this setup, the suburban counties can easily prioritize projects happening outside of the city over those that should happen inside of the city. It's a shame, as more people in my age range would probably consider living in the Northeast if it wasn't for the lack of a one-seat ride to Center City outside of the vicinity of Regional Rail stations.

I didn't realize it was 2-2-2-2-2. You would think it would at least be comparable to population. Like Philly gets 4 and Montco 2 and Delco and Chesco 1 each.

[Knight Hospitaller]

^ Again, it's like the issue confronting the founders: Representation in proportion to population (which permanently disadvantages smaller jurisdictions) or equal representation (which disadvantages larger jurisdictions). As with the Connecticut Compromise, we probably need a hybrid approach with respect to SEPTA governance.

[summersm343]

Former Industrial Building Getting a Major Refresh in Grays Ferry

Look for 54 apartments to join some basement studio space for this wonderful rehab. Large, industrial-style windows take up a majority of the facade, with the original brick work complemented by what looks like some sort of bronze-ish horizontal bands between the windows.

Read/view more here:
https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-phil...in-grays-ferry

[summersm343]

More on Moore: Apartments Making Progress in East Passyunk







Read/view more here:
https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-phil...-east-passyunk

[summersm343]

10-9-8-76 Units Will Replace Autobody Shop in West Mt. Airy

Aerial of the site:


Current view of the site:


Project rendering:


Read/view more here:
https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-phil...n-west-mt-airy