Winnipeg Goldeyes

[esquire]

^ I know someone who works in the Goldeyes front office and he told me that the Jets had a major impact on the team's ticket/sponsorship base.

The Goldeyes had their moment in the sun for the first 5 years or so of Shaw Park, when they were the only local team to have a nice, new facility to play in. It was a pleasant antidote to the old and increasingly run-down Winnipeg Stadium and Winnipeg Arena. Things have settled down since then but I'm sure they're still quite profitable even if they are nowhere near their heights of 20 years ago... judging by a quick scan of the other American Association teams, the Goldeyes have fairly high ticket price points and attendance is still decent, so Katz is not hurting.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Starting in 2010 (1 year before the Jets came back) the average dipped to mid-5000s and stayed that way until 2015, so I don't think it's fair to say the Jets had any impact on Goldeyes attendance - it was essentially the same for 5 or 6 seasons. Then in a matter of 4 seasons average attendance dropped from 5600 to 4300. 2 seasons later in 2019, it dropped further to 4,000. Last year, the average was 3400. So far this season the Goldeyes are drawing 3100 per game.

The jets didn't effect attendance so it's something else. My bet would be boomers and the previous generation dying out or being too old to attend games. They are not being replaced by younger people looking for a night of "cheap entertainment." That and the decline in the quality of baseball compared to 20 years ago (more competition from better independent leagues) and less attractive pricepoints for tickets which used to be $10 or cheaper not that long ago.

I also think all those allegations against the former mayor plays a role in declining attendance. Who wants to put money into the pockets of a person who may have stolen hundreds of thousands (or more?) dollars from taxpayers?

I think to some level the Katz factor turned people away from the Goldeyes.

I had been to the number of the peak Goldeyes games and then to a couple post Jets and the fan experience has definitely dropped way off. I am not sure exactly what changed but something has.

Blaming the Jets is fairly weak as if you had a strong relationship with your sponsors and fans that wouldn't have pinched you.

The Bombers went from peak STH to real bad lows to highs again all after the return of the Jets.

[esquire]

^ The Goldeyes would definitely be easier to love if someone less repellent owned them. It's kind of amazing that any corporate sponsors want to be associated with him as opposed to the much more savory ownership and management groups of every other sports team in town.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I know someone who works in the Goldeyes front office and he told me that the Jets had a major impact on the team's ticket/sponsorship base.

The Goldeyes had their moment in the sun for the first 5 years or so of Shaw Park, when they were the only local team to have a nice, new facility to play in. It was a pleasant antidote to the old and increasingly run-down Winnipeg Stadium and Winnipeg Arena. Things have settled down since then but I'm sure they're still quite profitable even if they are nowhere near their heights of 20 years ago... judging by a quick scan of the other American Association teams, the Goldeyes have fairly high ticket price points and attendance is still decent, so Katz is not hurting.

That's interesting to hear although when you look at the average attendance in the first 4 years after the Jets came back, the Goldeyes were still averaging in the mid-5000s - the same as they were in 2010, one year prior to the Jets returning.

Maybe there was a lag effect? Or perhaps it was the Sammy effect as has been mentioned here. Wasn't it around 2014/2015ish that those allegations against him became public knowledge?

[esquire]

^ I remember he told me that a few years after the Jets came back. And this guy is pretty senior so he would have a good idea of what happened... by that point they clearly had some idea of the impact. Attendance didn't drop off immediately as of 2012 but there are also less obvious factors to consider, like sponsorships.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

https://www.statscrew.com/minorbaseball/t-wg15427

1999 Winnipeg Goldeyes Northern League Central 48 38 Roster Stats 248,488 6,061
2000 Winnipeg Goldeyes Northern League Central 48 37 Roster Stats 271,513 6,465
2001 Winnipeg Goldeyes Northern League Central 52 38 Roster Stats 292,095 6,491
2002 Winnipeg Goldeyes Northern League Central 56 33 Roster Stats 303,786 6,200
2003 Winnipeg Goldeyes Northern League 55 34 Roster Stats 300,760 7,161
2004 Winnipeg Goldeyes Northern League 56 39 Roster Stats 323,241 7,027
2005 Winnipeg Goldeyes Northern League 47 48 Roster Stats 322,758 6,867
2006 Winnipeg Goldeyes Northern League 52 44 Roster Stats 312,213 6,504
2007 Winnipeg Goldeyes Northern League 52 43 Roster Stats 300,938 6,542
2008 Winnipeg Goldeyes Northern League 51 45 Roster Stats 284,398 6,464
2009 Winnipeg Goldeyes Northern League 55 41 Roster Stats 278,099 6,180
2010 Winnipeg Goldeyes Northern League 46 53 Roster Stats 271,399 5,654
2011 Winnipeg Goldeyes American Association 60 40 Roster Stats 275,521 5,740
2012 Winnipeg Goldeyes American Association 55 45 Roster Stats 285,263 5,705
2013 Winnipeg Goldeyes American Association 56 44 Roster Stats 276,359 5,880
2014 Winnipeg Goldeyes American Association 63 37 Roster Stats 258,429 5,618
2015 Winnipeg Goldeyes American Association 47 52 Roster Stats 258,922 5,284
2016 Winnipeg Goldeyes American Association 58 42 Roster Stats 231,206 4,817
2017 Winnipeg Goldeyes American Association 62 38 Roster Stats 219,556 4,391
2018 Winnipeg Goldeyes American Association 41 59 Roster Stats 219,370 4,477
2019 Winnipeg Goldeyes American Association 57 43 Roster Stats 195,787 4,079

As you can see from the stats above, The Goldeyes basically sold out or had near sellouts for the first 5 years at the new stadium...they expanded the stadium in 2003 to accommodate an additional 1200 seats. The following five seasons they averaged over 6,000 per game.

Starting in 2010 (1 year before the Jets came back) the average dipped to mid-5000s and stayed that way until 2015, so I don't think it's fair to say the Jets had any impact on Goldeyes attendance - it was essentially the same for 5 or 6 seasons. Then in a matter of 4 seasons average attendance dropped from 5600 to 4300. 2 seasons later in 2019, it dropped further to 4,000. Last year, the average was 3400. So far this season the Goldeyes are drawing 3100 per game.

The jets didn't effect attendance so it's something else. My bet would be boomers and the previous generation dying out or being too old to attend games. They are not being replaced by younger people looking for a night of "cheap entertainment." That and the decline in the quality of baseball compared to 20 years ago (more competition from better independent leagues) and less attractive pricepoints for tickets which used to be $10 or cheaper not that long ago.

I also think all those allegations against the former mayor plays a role in declining attendance. Who wants to put money into the pockets of a person who may have stolen hundreds of thousands (or more?) dollars from taxpayers?

The Moose returned in 2015....

[esquire]

I guess at one point the Goldeyes benefitted from the lack of summer sports competition. The CFL season didn't start until July, and there were no other teams. Now the CFL season starts a month earlier, plus you have Valour and the Sea Bears. Not to mention the fact that the Jets take up a lot of time and money from the local sports-watching population, especially if they're in the playoffs until well into May.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I remember he told me that a few years after the Jets came back. And this guy is pretty senior so he would have a good idea of what happened... by that point they clearly had some idea of the impact. Attendance didn't drop off immediately as of 2012 but there are also less obvious factors to consider, like sponsorships.

Since your buddy works for the Goldeyes, I'm thinking he is not going to say sponsorships have declined due to a slimy owner even if that is the case. Can't bite the hand that feeds you.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Since your buddy works for the Goldeyes, I'm thinking he is not going to say sponsorships have declined due to a slimy owner even if that is the case. Can't bite the hand that feeds you.

We don't get too deep into work stuff but this conversation would have occurred shortly after Katz's tenure as mayor ended and a lot of nasty things were coming to light in the media. So the Katz factor may have definitely played a part in things.

[blueandgoldguy]

Goldeyes did draw a near sellout of 6200 tonight.

Off topic, but the Sea Bears second game appears to be on track to draw over 5,000. Their following game after that appears to be selling well on ticketmaster as well.

Time will tell, but semi-pro basketball might have a bright future in Winnipeg - the right demographics, Asper as owner that greases the wheels for corporate sponsorships/seat sales.

[CoryB]

Re the Seabears. Something that happened since the Thunder/Cyclone days is there has been a real organic growth in the game at the grassroots level especially in the Filipino community. It also doesn't hurt that nationally Canada has been on an upspring with players getting highly regarded and in some cases highly drafted too.

To some extent the Goldeyes might be getting hit on the opposite side of that trend as hardball and softball both seem to be in massive decline at the grassroots level.

It is actually interesting that the Bombers have a fairly large scale campaign happening this year in the community to try and grow their own grassroots levels.

I still think Katz is a major factor in the Goldeyes decline but they got caught in a perfect storm of things. Katz reputation started to bottom as the Jets and Moose are looking for sponsorship and around the same time Wade Miller takes over at the Bombers. If you had limited sponsorship money to spend it was easy to find ways to distance yourself from Katz. That is turn lead to declines in the fan experience at the Goldeyes. Coupled with shifting demographics at the grassroots level and newer facilities for other teams opening up.

The other side of this is seemingly when Katz stepped back from the mayor's office he started paying a lot less attention to Winnipeg in general so it could also be that he is not out in the local community enough to make/smooth over those relationships to bring in the sponsor dollars. Or conversely perhaps when he was mayor some organizations thought that sponsoring the Goldeyes could be a way to boost their own visibility with the mayor's office.

[esquire]

^ I was at the first Sea Bears game and it was hard not to notice the sea of nonwhite faces at the game. These are people who you tend not to see in huge numbers at hockey, football, baseball games. I remember at the time thinking that it was interesting an old white guy would be making a pile of money off this diverse fanbase, but to blueandgoldguy's point, maybe without a very connected and influential guy like Asper it wouldn't have happened. At any rate, it is nice that there is a pro basketball team in town to reflect the sporting tastes of an important and growing demographic in this city.

Also, I could see there being a baseball resurgence in this city... it would probably take two things. First, an owner other than Katz and his pals. Second, getting a team in a league that is more relevant than the AA. It doesn't have to be AAA MiLB or anything like that, but even something like the old Northern League with recognizable places and people involved. Combine that with a successful team and you could see the return of fan interest and enthusiasm.

[wags_in_the_peg]

new ballpark name, Blue Cross Park

[NewIreland]

I took in a few games last summer and I noticed that the seats in front of the Craft Beer Corner were removed. Does anyone know why?

[stjoesaints1981]

Originally Posted by NewIreland

I took in a few games last summer and I noticed that the seats in front of the Craft Beer Corner were removed. Does anyone know why?

They will be installing a couple of more patio decks for groups...and if they are not rented out they will be an extension of Beer Corner...kinda like how it is along the first base line. Plus they will be getting a new scoreboard!

[NewIreland]

Originally Posted by stjoesaints1981

They will be installing a couple of more patio decks for groups...and if they are not rented out they will be an extension of Beer Corner...kinda like how it is along the first base line. Plus they will be getting a new scoreboard!

Awesome! Thanks.

[Biff]

I noticed the old scoreboard had been removed last weekend.

[bomberjet]

Secured the news lease and now doing more upgrades. Good news.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by Biff

I noticed the old scoreboard had been removed last weekend.

good to hear, the current one was having issues the last few seasons at games i was at. parts of screen "burnt out"