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  #7341  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2021, 4:24 PM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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Originally Posted by nito View Post
Vaccines will never be 100% effective; but what they do excel at is rapidly reducing the possibility of getting ill, let alone hospitalised or die.

10023 you mentioned earlier that you don’t care that the people who are falling victim are overwhelmingly those who are unvaccinated, but you should care. Regardless of their ignorance and stupidity to not get vaccinated, more people dying or suffering long-term medical conditions will have an indirect cost on you, me and the rest of society. There was a father in his mid-30’s who died from Covid the other week, leaving behind two young kids who – from a statistical perspective – likely to experience more adverse life prospects.
Then his kids will think twice about not getting a vaccine when the next big virus comes into their lives as adults.

Of course there are some indirect costs, but (as I have stated before), it's the only way you are going to convince these morons to get a vaccine. If they go through a major bout of covid, or start seeing their friends and family falling to this thing, that's a very real impact on them directly that will do way more to communicate the importance of a vaccine than seeing online social media posts.

This is why some of us don't care. I can't feel sympathy for people who spit in the face of science and willfully choose to put themselves at risk. People do this with risk all the time, but you can't fix stupid.
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  #7342  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2021, 6:02 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Whether or not you agree with, or even like this man, he basically isn’t wrong here:

Video Link
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  #7343  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2021, 8:54 PM
Camelback Camelback is offline
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
You're comparing apples and oranges here. 10,600 is for the whole state, and 55 in the ICU was for for a single hospital chain in the Miami area with 420 total COVID patients.
I see.

The wording of the article could be better. It also says that Florida has had 100,000 cases of covid this week.

96% of those that went to the hospital in Miami-Dade are unvaccinated (sounds like the vaccines are working as advertised).

Sounds like we stay the course and all the panic porn is just that, fear generated for you and I to click and share links.
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  #7344  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2021, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nito View Post
Vaccines will never be 100% effective; but what they do excel at is rapidly reducing the possibility of getting ill, let alone hospitalised or die.

10023 you mentioned earlier that you don’t care that the people who are falling victim are overwhelmingly those who are unvaccinated, but you should care. Regardless of their ignorance and stupidity to not get vaccinated, more people dying or suffering long-term medical conditions will have an indirect cost on you, me and the rest of society. There was a father in his mid-30’s who died from Covid the other week, leaving behind two young kids who – from a statistical perspective – likely to experience more adverse life prospects.
Great. Probably on benefits anyway.

Covid isn’t going away and neither are the deaths from it. Everyone has the opportunity to get vaccinated. That’s all you can reasonably do.
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  #7345  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2021, 10:38 PM
edale edale is offline
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Great. Probably on benefits anyway.
ok this is really gross.
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  #7346  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2021, 11:09 PM
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You can make some pretty leveled head points like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Covid isn’t going away and neither are the deaths from it. Everyone has the opportunity to get vaccinated. That’s all you can reasonably do.
...but then say some really outlandish shit like this:


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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Great. Probably on benefits anyway.
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  #7347  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2021, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by twister244 View Post
This is why some of us don't care. I can't feel sympathy for people who spit in the face of science and willfully choose to put themselves at risk. People do this with risk all the time, but you can't fix stupid.
Again and again and again: You should care, not for them but because they are breeding the vaccine-resistant virus that may eventually get any of us who are vaccinated because we are not keeping up in developing and testing new vaccines as fast as the virus is creating new "variants" (although we probably could if the bureaucrats would get out of the way).
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  #7348  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2021, 11:46 PM
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Over the weekend it was said on one of the TV news shows that there were 7 ICU beds left in Austin. Good luck people.
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  #7349  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2021, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
Again and again and again: You should care, not for them but because they are breeding the vaccine-resistant virus that may eventually get any of us who are vaccinated because we are not keeping up in developing and testing new vaccines as fast as the virus is creating new "variants" (although we probably could if the bureaucrats would get out of the way).
The problem is that this new round of lockdowns and mask mandates will be open ended because we won't have vaccines to look forward to because we're already vaccinated. Sure, there's boosters which might work for another six months until another variant renders them ineffective and then we'll be right back where we started from.

I get the precautions over Delta but I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel.
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  #7350  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2021, 11:52 PM
Camelback Camelback is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
Over the weekend it was said on one of the TV news shows that there were 7 ICU beds left in Austin. Good luck people.
It would be enlightening if the general public knew who was in the ICU.

# of Covid cases
age of those with Covid
of those, # of vaccinated or un-vaxxed
# with medical ailments

Unfortunately, we won't ever get that information, because we're supposed to remain in FEAR.

It's gonna get you and when it gets you, you're going to DIE!
- the media
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  #7351  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 12:55 AM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
Again and again and again: You should care, not for them but because they are breeding the vaccine-resistant virus that may eventually get any of us who are vaccinated because we are not keeping up in developing and testing new vaccines as fast as the virus is creating new "variants" (although we probably could if the bureaucrats would get out of the way).
And again, again, again, again, again, again........ We have DATA.

The vast vast vast majority of those who are vaccinated are protected from severe illness that results in hospitalizations/deaths. If the day comes that bubonic variant emerges that blasts through vaccines and gives us the rate of illness on par with the original strain across both unvaccinated and vaccinated, then, and ONLY then would I be ok with putting my mask back on and distancing until I get a booster to protect myself.

Until that day comes there is zero evidence to care for people who choose not to get vaccinated.


EDIT - Back on the topic of the thread - There has been an uptick in mask usage here in the downtown area, but the majority of folks aren't wearing masks inside, and most places aren't enforcing any sort of private mandate at their business.
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  #7352  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 1:00 AM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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Another big tech company has decided to embrace permanent remote work for their employees - https://www.reuters.com/technology/l...se-2021-07-29/
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  #7353  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 1:19 AM
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Steely Dan Steely Dan is offline
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Had a first for me last night.

My wife and I walked over to one of our neighborhood Thai BYOs for dinner.

They weren't letting anyone dine inside unless you showed them a vaccine card.

We're both fully vaxxed, but never thought to bring our cards with us.

So we walked a couple blocks down the street and ate at one of their competitors.
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  #7354  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 1:26 AM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Had a first for me last night.

My wife and I walked over to one of our neighborhood Thai BYOs for dinner.

They weren't letting anyone dine inside unless you showed them a vaccine card.

We're both fully vaxxed, but never thought to bring our cards with us.

So we walked a couple blocks down the street and ate at one of their competitors.
There's only one business i've had to present evidence of vaccination at, but I used a photo I took of the card. I keep the original at home to ensure I don't lose it or deal with wear/tear.
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  #7355  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 1:29 AM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Had a first for me last night.

My wife and I walked over to one of our neighborhood Thai BYOs for dinner.

They weren't letting anyone dine inside unless you showed them a vaccine card.

We're both fully vaxxed, but never thought to bring our cards with us.

So we walked a couple blocks down the street and ate at one of their competitors.
I get that’s annoying, but I sort of support businesses doing that.

And for sure that’s going to be a Chicago thing. I don’t see that catching on in the burbs
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  #7356  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 1:49 AM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
Again and again and again: You should care, not for them but because they are breeding the vaccine-resistant virus that may eventually get any of us who are vaccinated because we are not keeping up in developing and testing new vaccines as fast as the virus is creating new "variants" (although we probably could if the bureaucrats would get out of the way).
Or perhaps they just aren’t irrationally freaked out and paranoid about apocalyptic events happening (with zero evidence) like you are.

The “deadly escape variant” is pure nonsense, it’s a boogeyman, and you can’t comprehend that.

And that’s why you keep earning the nickname “Howard”
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  #7357  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 1:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twister244 View Post
There's only one business i've had to present evidence of vaccination at, but I used a photo I took of the card. I keep the original at home to ensure I don't lose it or deal with wear/tear.
Good idea.

I'm gonna use it.

Thanks
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  #7358  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 2:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JManc View Post
The problem is that this new round of lockdowns and mask mandates will be open ended because we won't have vaccines to look forward to because we're already vaccinated. Sure, there's boosters which might work for another six months until another variant renders them ineffective and then we'll be right back where we started from.

I get the precautions over Delta but I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Not necessarily. The wave of infections from the delta variant lasted about 50-60 days in both Britain and India, the two countries that it has washed over. I'm expecting the US to see the same: A storm of infections and illness lasting about 2 months and infecting a high proportion of the unvaccinated, then a decline after which we can probably lift any new public health measures. We are about 1 month behind the UK which is now seeing a rapid decline in new infections. I expect that to be happening in the US by the end of August.
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  #7359  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 2:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Good idea.

I'm gonna use it.

Thanks
That's exactly what I did 4 months ago: Photocopied multiple copies of my card and put the original in my "passport wallet" with my passport. I carry one of the copies in my regular wallet.

However California now has a QR code vaccine passport (like in Europe) if I can get them to accept my documentation of my vaccinations which did not happen in California but rather in Arizona. I submitted what they asked for but haven't heard back. If you were vaccinated in the state they supposedly get the info directly from the source.
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  #7360  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 2:21 AM
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Originally Posted by twister244 View Post
And again, again, again, again, again, again........ We have DATA.

The vast vast vast majority of those who are vaccinated are protected from severe illness that results in hospitalizations/deaths. If the day comes that bubonic variant emerges that blasts through vaccines and gives us the rate of illness on par with the original strain across both unvaccinated and vaccinated, then, and ONLY then would I be ok with putting my mask back on and distancing until I get a booster to protect myself.
You are willfully ignoring the point I keep trying to get into thick heads like yours. It doesn't matter whether the first generation vaccines protect against delta or not in so far as there is a large pool of unvaccinated people in whom the virus continues to mutate. The delta variant itself will mutate, perhaps in several base pairs and each time it does its proteins--its antigens--will less and less resemble those against which the vaccine was made and so each time the vaccine will be less and less effective. Thew delta variant is at least somewhat less susceptible to the vaccines than the alpha variant which itself was very slightly less susceptible than the original virus against which the vaccine were made. Expect the vaccine to be that much less effective against whatever follows delta and something will. But how soon depends on the number and frequency of mutating viruses which is a function of the number of viral hosts which, in turn, in the US is a function largely of the number of unvaccinated people.

This is not a question of data. It is a question of simply understanding virology and it is why nearly every expert in that field is begging people to get vaccinated. They care about the welfare of those people as any normal human would but their specific concern is what I'm telling you: They want to minimize viral mutations and delay as long as possible the emergence of newer more virulent strains because to a man and woman, they understand that is going to happen. And masks add just bit more interference in person to person viral transmission--not at all to the degree that the vaccine does, but incrementally just a bit.

I don't really care if you put your mask back on. I hope never to be anywhere near YOU but I'll never understand your stubbornness about that issue. Wearing a mask indoors to me seems so trivial and your stamping your feet in a hissy fit so childish.
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